More like Japanese and HKers are under-reporting it.
1 Like
My half Jap neighbour told me yesterday that Jap men are the worst men in the World. Maybe that’s a big exaggerated, but I was under the impression that they were a bit sexist too. As for Taiwanese, I keep reading contradictory messages; some people say they are sexist and treat women like shit, and other people say that Taiwanse princesses girls enslave men badly. Perhaps everything changes after getting married??
What makes you think that HK and Japan under-report, but this is not the case in Taiwan(or there is less under-reporting here) ?
since women will be enslaved in marriage till death due them apart, they want to get back at men as much as they can before marriage. hence, the slavery of men before marriage.
I suppose virtues of chivalry and making sacrifices are non-existent now, just endless victim mentality and enslavement of the opposite gender.
If I recall correctly, the number of domestic violence report is roughly the same in Taiwan and in Japan, but Japan’s population is fivefold. I think it’s pretty evident that they are under-reporting it.
This is also interesting.
It says that the number of domestic violence report is very high in Nordic countries, the reason could be that the women there are less afraid of reporting the incident.
Wrong, I’ll post later why, busy now.
Keep checking forumosa, I’ll keep you posted.
I applaud you for being able to navigate through that muddled mess of an article. Dude needs to hire an editor or something because his writing is painfully bad. Anyways, it seems like Brian Hoie is trying to push his toxic masculinity narrative more than he is engaging in any sort of unbiased analysis. He subjectively takes individual crimes of passion and crams them into his prism of “normalization of male violence against women in Taiwanese society” even though they don’t belong there.
Rather than blame the individuals who committed the crime, he decides to heap blame on society as whole because you know not a day goes by where violence against women isn’t promoted or even cheered in the media. Right after they learn their bopomofos Taiwanese children are taught that filleting females is acceptable as long as the male’s feelings are really hurt. I can’t tell you how many times I have witnessed my mother thanking my father for not chopping her up into little pieces. Taiwanese society has gotten so bad for females that there is some talk of bringing honor killings to the island nation. Thank God Brian, armed with his knowledge in gender studies, has arrived in Taiwan and is willing to expose Taiwan’s misogynist underbelly.
4 Likes
Article was horribly written. An NYU and Columbia grad? He must have done it drunk or while sleepwalking or right before coffee and trying to meet a deadline.
Regardless, looking at it societally, I think the issue might have more to do with how it seems that some taiwanese just fucking snap extra hard when they do break.
2 Likes
Solely? Did the article actually say that?
A: There’s a man who cut off a woman’s breasts.
B: Hmm, that’s not a standard male fantasy, so it must not be sex-related at all. He’s just a random psychopath.
A: There’s a woman who cut off a man’s balls.
B: __________________________________.
(Please fill in the blank.)
I think you’re excluding parts of Andrew’s rants from that assessment.
I’m not sure why the “goalposts” line appeals so much to certain honorable members. I’m not trying to win an argument about whether or not an article I (like most people in the thread apparently) still haven’t read. I’m suggesting angles from which to look at the issue, whatever angles I think are worth investigating and not already well known.
Do you think Idi Amin would have been a nicer person if he’d been prescribed spironolactone at birth?
Again with the castration anxiety! 
Feminists are trying to emasculate us! They want to erase gender! That means cutting our balls off one way or another – with knives, with drugs, or with Orwellian laws and brainwashing! 
Of course people like that exist, along with many other strange kinds of people (like those who chop their exes up into pieces), and horse-like animals with single horns 
, and fish-like animals with breasts and lactation and wombs 
, and UFO’s, whatever those actually are. 
But people who want to destroy masculinity itself are rare, like the woman who shot Andy (as I mentioned earlier). If that were normal feminist behavior, the movement wouldn’t have succeeded to the extent that it did in the 20th century. Extremists of various flavors seem to be getting more attention now than they used to, and some societies have become more polarized on certain issues than they used to be, but that doesn’t mean moderate people don’t exist anymore.
Yet again and again, even though “it’s normal for boys/men to be violent, they need to let off steam, that’s the whole point of contact sports, if you stop it that means you’re denying biology” and so on, if you suggest a link between “masculine” violence and criminal violence by using the term toxic masculinity (again, invented by masculists despite @5248’s echo chamber search results), it’s only a matter of time before someone puts emasculation forward as the logical conclusion of the concept.
Is that rational?
(Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, Finsky. But with all the “trigger” reactions going around in this thread, it’s hard to stay objective.)
Simply having a Y chromosome doesn’t confer a ‘masculine’ personality. Certainly it has a biological basis - such that men tend towards a set of traits that are described as ‘masculine’. It also predisposes you to other traits that have nothing to do with masculinity - such as mental illness in general and psychopathy specifically.
Remember: masculine is defined most basically as of or relating to men or words to that effect. We can try to come up with an ideal version of masculinity and various not-so-ideal versions, but it’s hard to say the not-so-ideal versions have nothing to do with maleness. And if they do, then the masculist (i.e. men’s rights activist) view that the correlation between high suicide rates etc. and male gender means men need help – what are we supposed to do with that view, if we simultaneously hold that masculinity is irrelevant when it comes to mental health?
(I’m not bothering with the distinction between sex and gender in this context, and I’m not putting words in your mouth either, though I am bringing up some of Andrew’s words, which I’m not sure what you think of.)
Men generally find that that masculinity is something that has to be worked at to a certain extent;
To achieve whatever their culture considers the ideal form of masculinity, yes.
a lot of young men are un-masculine because they’ve been taught that masculinity in and of itself is toxic.
There’s a danger of missing the point here. Children are taught it’s un-this or un-that to do all kinds of things, for various reasons: to mitigate physical danger, to mitigate spiritual danger by placating a deity or spirit, to make the family look good (keep up appearances), to stay out of trouble with the authorities, and so on. Growing up to fit a certain ideal of masculine or feminine (or gender-neutral or genderqueer or any other ideal people might come up with) is just one of many goals that parents, governments, and other organizations (churches etc.) set for children.
Recently, the “don’t be a rapist” line has been added to the soup of behavioral influence that children slosh around in. Like any ingredient in the soup, it can become toxic if improperly handled, and I have no doubt that some people do mishandle it (like the American judge who wanted to try a six-year-old boy as an adult for sexual assault when he improperly touched a female classmate – deacdes ago btw). But what part of “please don’t be a rapist or sexual harasser when you grow up” is inherently harmful to the male psyche?
they’ve been taught
If they spend too much time on the interwebs (which many of them do now), they get taught all kinds of nonsense, or at least one flavor of nonsense, whichever flavor wins the race to turn the echo into shriekback. That’s why critical thinking is so important.
Conversely, women can be masculine, and again that’s often something they consciously cultivate (butch lesbians would be a stereotypical example).
“Conversely” to men being unmasculine because they were taught that masculinity itself is bad? I’m not sure how much thought you put into that juxtaposition, but it sounds like you’re implying that homosexuality is caused by bad parenting/teaching – “they would be straight if you had let them play with the right toys!” and all that, which would be a discussion for a separate thread, I think…
If you think of ‘masculinity’ as a multidimensional personality trait that can be described with some statistical distribution (might be a Gaussian distribution, but I don’t think so) then there will be some overlap between men and women. Because we’re all human, that overlap will be quite significant.
That way of looking at it sounds fair (men also have estrogen, women also have testosterone 
) – except for the “we’re all human” part, ahem. 
It would have been equally illogical to associate his psychopathy with the fact that he had dark hair or was Asian. His maleness is such a trivial part of what he is, or what made him commit this crime, it’s meaningless to point it out.
When your sample size is 1, the statistical value is basically 0, whether it’s about gender or anything else.
I brought up sati partly because it’s a good example of a phenomenon that can’t be explained by the other factors people tend to blame – race, culture, religion – because it’s been found in many different places at various times in history and, like “honor killings”, it persists in some areas. But despite the variation in the details – live cremation vs. live burial, Hindu theological arguments vs. Buddhist theological arguments etc. – the victims are almost always female. (Male slaves being buried alive with their master to accompany him in the afterlife seems to have gone out of fashion centuries earlier than sati.)
So if you take one case of sati, a strawman about black hair or what have you is just that, a strawman. The practice is of widow murder is abhorrent to most people alive today because it’s not part of the culture we grew up with. But considering it used to be considered a good thing, should we just label it “mass psychopathy” and dismiss it?
I submit that dismissing historical customs as irrelevant makes us miss an interesting fact about psychology: all kinds of abnormal behavior can be made to seem normal (and vice-versa). If other people were so messed up that they thought, at the societal level, that widows had to be burned alive to remain “pure”, what makes us so sure that we’re psychologically healthy at the societal level?
That’s probably true, but we also need to remember that the definitions of rape, domestic violence etc. are not the same in every country, i.e. if Scandinavian legal standards were applied in Asia, the crime rates in Asia would probably be higher.
Evidently, yes, we do love fallacies. And in western countries, right after they learn their ABC’s, children are taught that cutting someone’s balls off is acceptable as long as the female’s feelings are really hurt. 
It didn’t offer any other possible causes, so the strong implication is that toxic masculinity was solely to blame.
“This points to the fact that the ultimate roots of the wave of dismemberments which have swept Taiwan in the past two months is in toxic masculinity”
The murder, dismemberment, and storage of body parts is toxic and the three examples given were crimes committed by males. OK, it’s toxic masculinity.
1 Like
Yes, but I meant you 
. As for the message you quote, what “rape culture” means is that a culture promotes and excuses rape, and modern Western societies do not promote or excuse rape. Those things are an insult to the intelligence. “Rape culture”.
1 Like
is this true?
@yyy, can you please tell me if you agree with the following theory, and if you don’t, can you explain why?
The problem of pirates in the Philippines is actually toxic masculinity, because most of sailors are male, so to be a sailor is a masculine trait, and to be a pirate is a toxic way of being a sailor, so piracy is a toxic masculine behaviour.
Thanks.
Considering a relocation?
You’re speaking to me as if I were Jotham. Do you really get that from my posts?
Note the context, the italics, and the cactus emoji. (In other words… no.)
No it’s not, you have just shoehorned something complex, to fit into your ideology.
Take boxing, there is artistry, ingenuity, discipline, creativity and athleticism involved in being great at the sport. This is why fans like it, it’s the sweet science, “the art of hitting and not getting hit”. It’s not a some meathead pursuit for testosterone charged meat heads to let off steam.
1 Like
If you want to talk about it rape culture (or add scare quotes to it), you can start by asking how societies like this one come into existence:
Minority, yes, but still a thing.
My ideology, you say? I was citing Andrew and Finley.
I don’t follow you.
Still interested in knowing if you think that piracy is toxic masculinity.