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The KMT are bunch of hypocritical, ‘turning with the wind’, farts …
Never has been.
There are actually people who don’t know what KMT stands for? :roflmao:
Actually, I don’t. I know they’re against independence, and for the “status quo”, but that’s just a coward’s way out. I’d like to hear of their vision for Taiwan. I’d like to hear them say that ideally, we’d be one democratic China, with a president in Beijing, and that our tax dollars would go to Beijing, and that our national newspapers and TV stations would be out of Beijing, and that Taiwanese soldiers would serve in an army under Beijing’s command. Of course they can’t say this - it would be political suicide - but it would be nice if they had the courage of their convictions.
Actually, I don’t. I know they’re against independence, and for the “status quo”, but that’s just a coward’s way out. I’d like to hear of their vision for Taiwan. I’d like to hear them say that ideally, we’d be one democratic China, with a president in Beijing, and that our tax dollars would go to Beijing, and that our national newspapers and TV stations would be out of Beijing, and that Taiwanese soldiers would serve in an army under Beijing’s command. Of course they can’t say this - it would be political suicide - but it would be nice if they had the courage of their convictions.[/quote]
Would that be the Blind blinding the Blind?
sdf
well, for people who don’t really pay attention to the details, the KMT have always said they want unification…[/quote]
Yes, they’ve always said they wanted a unified China, but they’ve never discussed the broader implications of that. It’s not that we’re not paying attention to the details, it’s that the details aren’t forthcoming. I’d like to hear them tell us that Taiwan would no longer be able to aspire to having any kind of foreign policy, that our tax dollars will go to supporting inefficient state industries in China, that our soldiers will serve in a Chinese army, etc. Where are the details? Where’s the vision?
I believe that the KMT wants unification with the “Republic of China” recognized as the legal government of China.
However, that is most unlikely.
See – taiwankey.net/dc/rocexile.htm
How about this: maintain status quo now and reunification with mainland later, when mainland turns democratic and reaches parity in standard of living.
Personally, I think the key is federalism. Worked for the Republic of Texas. 
P.s. All that joining Chinese communist army or paying taxes to those old dudes in Beijing are just funny TI Kool-aide. 
As if Taiwan’s leadership is full of brave, blood thirsty people. 
Actually, I don’t. I know they’re against independence, and for the “status quo”, but that’s just a coward’s way out. I’d like to hear of their vision for Taiwan. I’d like to hear them say that ideally, we’d be one democratic China, with a president in Beijing, and that our tax dollars would go to Beijing, and that our national newspapers and TV stations would be out of Beijing, and that Taiwanese soldiers would serve in an army under Beijing’s command. Of course they can’t say this - it would be political suicide - but it would be nice if they had the courage of their convictions.[/quote]
I guess a lot people are equally curious about DPP’s detailed plan for independence. tell the PRC to f*** off and declare indepence, fight with the PRC military, wait for the US to come to rescue (that is if they ever come)? Lots of details are interesting, e.g. how many lives do they reckon will be lost per day before the US comes and how many days do they think it will take the US to come. how many lives of the TWese will be the acceptable price for a change of name; how will they persuade the US to go to wars with China so they, one of the richest people in Asia, can change their name. Even if they win the war, how will they get pretty much the whole world to cut their relations with PRC and switch to TW?
I am not for or against independence. Nor am I saying these things are absolutely impossible.I, and many other people I believe, are just interested in the details, like you.
They can’t say this because the official capital of the ROC, even today, is Nanjing. 
They can’t say this because the official capital of the ROC, even today, is Nanjing. [/quote]
You’re right - Taipei is only the “acting capital” - which makes sense because politics here is such a show. :joker:
Puns aside, it would be nice if the KMT or the DPP would spell out their vision for the island and how we get there. Status quo is a cop out because it puts the onus for the possibility of a new national vision on China, as it would only be with China’s assent that we could either a) enter into a union, or b) declare official independence. What if China chooses not to act? For the current crop of Taiwan’s leaders that means they don’t need to bother thinking about what they stand for or what kind of country they’d like to create/govern. No vision. No convictions. No courage.
Use status quo to buy time, my young apprentices.
Strategy, you must use strategy, little minnows. :roflmao:
Yes, but time for what? That’s the part that is a big mystery. :s
it is not about a change of name, it is about international de jure acceptance of the current de facto position of taiwan as an independent state, and it is about the realisation among taiwanese that they can never recalim the mainland. what a pipe dream. the island is called taiwan by all except those stuck in ridiculous protocol and convention, such as those scared of big bad china’s reactoion, like most governments around the world.chickens. what no one seems to mention is that china needs the rest of the world economically to exactly the sme degree that we need china. it is just that when that economic dependence is parcelled out among many countries, it is easier for china to divide and conquer peice by peice by threat than it is for the rest of the world to get united and tell china to fuck off and start playing sensibly.
and why would you have to switch from recognising China to recognising Taiwan? they will be two separate independent countries, and no one is asking to unrecognise china as a pre requisite for taiwan independence. no one except the KMT is asking to recognise taiwan as the rightful ruler of china, which is patently absurd. the republic of china (1911, sun yat sen etc) never included formosa, orchid, green and the pescadore islands anyway. what a joke. it is more japan than china.
so what are you actually talking for then? are you in support of the status quo (ie head in the sand).
hang on a minute, let’s get back to the line of questioning above… like a lot of people, I’d love to hear even a spit balled, arm chair, amateur account from any of the greener shade of folks who post here, detailing how exactly independence would be achieved… no imaginary “if onlys” or hypothetical “in an ideal worlds” or sanctimonious “The USA/China should…” just the basic, real world, game plan by which internationally recognised de jure independence could be achieved given the real world situation of China’s hostile position on Taiwan and the rest of the world’s relationship with China and Taiwan as it stands today…
This is not intended as a dig in the ribs, I am genuinely interested to hear how anyone thinks it may be achieved…
[quote=“plasmatron”]
This is not intended as a dig in the ribs, I am genuinely interested to hear how anyone thinks it may be achieved…[/quote]
Exactly. One needs a proper geo-political strategy that takes this into account.
The key would be to declare independence after lining up a good set of countries who agree to immediately respond with ‘joint recognition’ of both countries.
The other key is to declare independence at such a time as the PRC won’t risk reactinge aggressively. Maybe it could be done just before the Olympics. But one thing is sure, it should be done sooner than later. If Taiwan declared independence tomorrow, the PRC would probably have to accept it since they are not currently equipped to invade, and throwing some missiles our way won’t do them any good.
But the ostriches of Taiwan do prefer the head-in-sand status quo.
That’s a either a very short list of Burkina Faso, Malawi, Dominican Republic etc. who’s present recognition adds up to nothing at all… or… a huge leap of imagination that would be needed to come up with what Taiwan could put on the table to convince bigger, more powerful, first world countries to sign up… “joint recognition” doesn’t make it through the real world filter anyway, since any nation recognising Taiwan can stress the “joint” part of the recognition all day long, but the reality is that due to world wide economics and politics being the way they are, they would effectively be severing links with China, something I doubt any country on earth would be willing to do now, or any time soon…
Again not much substance here, there is no buzzer, no time limit on China’s reaction to a Taiwanese declaration of indepedance… hypothetically Beijing could host a fantastic olympics to world wide rapture, then wander over and crush Taiwan at a later date, condemnation be damned… also what would shouting “we’re officially independant now” from the hilltops achieve?.. surely it’s far too simplistic to assume that the world’s power broker nations are merely sitting back withholding recognition, but just itching to give TI the seal of approval the second Taiwan works up the gumption to formally declare independance… regardless of timing, how does announcing formal independance change the geo-political reality of China’s considerable world wide anti TI clout?.. How can Taiwan possibly generate amongst the powerful nations of the world, unquestioning support for TI at any economic/political cost to the supporting nations?..
prefer the status quo to what exactly?.. still no sight of even a basic outline of a program whereby independance could pragmatically be achieved… 