Only mature, veteran posters do that. But i get the point, i rest my case.
For you maybe. Not for me.
[quote]
Most veteran IP posters (no offence intended) have a rigid POV and arguments to sustain those views, so on both (or all sides) you would just come to an impasse. [/quote]
An impasse on what? Opinion? Agreement?
This isn’t a think tank. It’s a discussion forum. The problem with IP is that discussion is constantly derailed by subpar postings.
I know. Many that I squeal on get tempted. Many that imho should be temped remain, despite being counterproductive to discussion. I’m sure they’d be just as funny to spectators in Temp, and there they would surely continue.
Seems to me, the site is missing out on a goldmine of hardeharhar.
IP should be boring and thought provoking . As for the trolls, baiters and dunces…Let them eat Temp!
I get that part. The part I don’t get is why you think the kind of use you, hardball and a small number of others would put the system to wouldn’t simply be swamped by the vast majority who would indeed use it purely as a popularity “weapon” to try and get rid of the opposite side’s posts.
Not everyone in that moshpit is as gentlemanly as you. 
I get that part. The part I don’t get is why you think the kind of use you, hardball and a small number of others would put the system to wouldn’t simply be swamped by the vast majority who would indeed use it purely as a popularity “weapon” to try and get rid of the opposite side’s posts.
Not everyone in that moshpit is as gentlemanly as you. [/quote]
I don’t think you can click “dislike” 100 times though. 
Thanks for the reminder. I forget, I am not the intelligentsia.
Thanks for the reminder. I forget, I am not the intelligentsia.[/quote]
Are you baiting me?
Maybe after a few more years onflob, you might not find the knuckleheads so endearing…
[quote=“hardball”]I’m sure the lurkers . . . might enjoy the spitting, but the people I know [color=#FF0000]IRL[/color] do NOT like that about IP at all.[/quote]I’m getting old, so I’m starting to feel as if I’ve reached a point where I’m almost “all argued out.” So I don’t post in the IP forum much anymore. But sometimes when I think about that forum, I get to thinking about how, back in the late paleolithic, when I had actual friends and acquaintances and stuff, the folks I hung out with were of just about all shades of the political spectrum, and we usually got along well.
There was a William F. Buckley-style conservative, and people who might nowadays be considered neocons, and we had liberals and leftists, and there were also a couple of environmentalists, and even a communist or two. With one possible exception, someone we didn’t encounter very often, we stayed on pretty good terms with each other (and if there were some times when we didn’t, it didn’t seem to have anything to do with politics).
In the outer orbit of these acquaintances there was an anarchist (or I think he was), and someone on the far right, and even a person who had supposedly been a monarchist in his youth (I’m serious, although I never knew how serious he was). There were also apolitical people in that circle. We all seemed to like each other.
These were people from various walks of life, but the two main things they had in common were some connection or another (old or new, direct or indirect) with a certain university and the fact that they had all been visiting the same set of watering holes for a long time.
I’m not suggesting that people have to get tanked up to have a political discussion (for one thing, we didn’t discuss politics all the time), or that they ought to have a connection with a university, but I do think that the fact that we all knew each other helped us get along despite our political differences. We knew each other primarily as people. (I might add, apropos of nothing, I guess, that I miss those folks, all of them.)
So I think that if you’re going to have a private IP forum, it might be worth a try to have some kind of IRL politics club or loose association (or something like that) to go with it.
Just my two cents.
[quote]So I think that if you’re going to have a private IP forum, it might be worth a try to have some kind of IRL politics club or loose association (or something like that) to go with it.
Just my two cents.[/quote]
I hear you CJ. Some of the people in there DO know one another, have met IRL, done the Happy Hour thing, or BBQs, or camping, and are quite civil with one another, despite having, as you say, widely varying political views. They are normally quite civil to one another.
IMO, it’s the posters who do NOT know anyone there, or who think it’s all about one upmanship and namecalling and myopic close-mindedness that make IP “exciting.”
What truly irks me about IP is how some of the people say things, I mean really nasty things to people they have met, and AFAIK they would never say them to the person IRL. This does not compute. I don’t like the snarkiness, but the online snarkiness to people you are respectful of IRL is disgusting.
I think CJ has illuminated a good reason why a private IP forum might be necessary. Some people are “argued out” and want a place to lightly chat about politics and not have to deal with inane blatherings…kind of the similar to the reason there’s a Women’s Forum.
Preach it Brother…Preach it!
People actually squeal? I don’t think in 5+ years on this site that I’ve squealed on a single post on this site.
What’s the point? Over time I think we’ll know the quality of what what each poster can, or can’t, contribute.
Anyway, I find myself posting less as the arguments are getting formulaic and I’m getting too lazy to make the same arguments to some newbie. Most threads seem to end up being a wiki contest.
People actually squeal? I don’t think in 5+ years on this site that I’ve squealed on a single post on this site.
What’s the point?
Anyway, I find myself posting less as the arguments are getting formulaic and I’m getting too lazy to make the same arguments to some newbie. Most threads seem to end up being a wiki contest.[/quote]
The point is that some posters bully their way into legitimate threads by being obnoxious, and asking the mod for a temp-call may help keep the thread on topic.
True, but why should someone not making a real effort to participate in the “grown up” forum be allowed to post at will?
I disagree with this statement. There are just as many mature posters who aren’t balanced, fair, or particularly welcoming of opposing viewpoints. And I don’t see them changing. Perhaps it is the distance from reality that so many of them live their lives in.
Real life scenarios make people get along. You may disagree vehemently with someone’s politics, but you share family or personal stories, push your political points gently (as I generally have to do in my family of leftists), and build coalitions (e.g. in workplaces, sports teams, clubs etc.) just as much based on personality and competency as on politics. That’s real life. It gives people a sort of tolerance that they didn’t have in their 20s when they were young and hotheaded and care free. But, what happens if you carry care free into middle age, as so many seem to do in Taiwan?
When you work 2 to 3 hours a day, drink, and debate online for most of the day, you sort of carry that 20s lifestyle into middle age, no? It’s attractive to live such a bohemian and alternative lifestyle, but it also allows people to be rigid and unaltering in their opinions. 
I disagree with this statement. There are just as many mature posters who aren’t balanced, fair, or particularly welcoming of opposing viewpoints. And I don’t see them changing. Perhaps it is the distance from reality that so many of them live their lives in. [/quote]
I don’t have that kind of insight into their lives, so I won’t speculate.
I don’t follow you, Chewy. So, we should be more tolerant of rabble-rousers, trolls and baiters in IP? It has been said before that there are other places on the web for that…why does this place have to one of them?
[quote]
However, when you work 2 to 3 hours a day, drink, and debate online for most of the day, you sort of carry that 20s lifestyle into middle age, no?[/quote]
I have no idea what or whom you are talking about.
The point is, I don’t care who people are or what their life experiences have amounted to, in the sense that I should be more tolerant of their slagging because they are X or Y.
All I’m saying is the jv posting shouldn’t belong or be welcomed in a Varsity forum.
The point is, though, that many of these people probably don’t believe they’re “slagging” or “juvenile” at all and would probably be quite offended at your description.
I, for instance, would understand perfectly well. When I do post in there it tends to be juvenile, but its quite intentional, because I simply cannot take something as banal as politics seriously at all. Poking fun is about as good as politics deserves, IMO. And my point of view should be just as accepted as anyone else’s. I mean, if I want to poke fun at politics and politicians in a politics forum, surely that’s my right.
But I would totally understand people who consider it to be SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS!!! getting irritated and wanting somewhere else to discuss it away out of earshot of such people.
However, what about the people who can’t HELP being juvenile or dumb or whatever and don’t even realize that they are juvenile or dumb? You’re going to keep them out of your club because they’re not clever enough for you or not “serious” enough?
If its a “varsity forum” you’re looking for, perhaps that’s what you should be looking for – this is not a “varsity forum.” Its an expat forum that has all kinds of members, many of whom did not go to varsity and yet have just as much right to post their opinions as you or anybody else.
YOU might think they’re rude or silly or too stupid to be involved, but there again, YOU’RE not the mod.
I guess what I’m saying is the environment in Taiwan (where people can work a few hours a day and live better than many working class locals) promotes a lifestyle where people are easily bored, have disposable income, and want entertainment. It is also part of Taiwan’s charm. Forumosa, more so in the past, provided people with a hell of a lot of entertainment. It was always at its best when it didn’t take itself too seriously. As we get older, we might not rabble rouse as much, but can’t we still enjoy watching posters raise hell whether it’s in substantive debate or cheap shot? Can’t us former rabble rousers live vicariously through people still stirring the pot?
Some trolls and baiters are plain stupid. But don’t you think some of the best posters have fit into this category as well? Rabble-rousers such as Broonale etc. brought a lot to this site IMHO whether it was rude mother jokes, crass political insults or astute political commentary. 
I miss his mother insult posts with Comrade Stalin that provided me with so much entertainment during long work days in Taiwan. While they could hold a political debate with the best of them, they also provided lots of rude comments and cheap shots to people that were naieve and often deserved it (kinda like Deuce 
). I guess my point is that Forumosa is different things to different people. If I want think tank perspectives and civil behaviour, I’ll hang out with pseudo intellectuals (and often do) or college professors. I’ve always admired the politcal theatre in the UK…people getting really nasty in debate in the Commons and then having a beer with their opponents when they’re done (at least in the old days)…sort of like rugby…hit hard and then drink together.
After a certain amount of where can I find sour cream or why my GF always sleeps so much type of threads, don’t some people want entertainment/bread and circuses in IP? Some of the brightest posters also brought some of the most entertainment to the threads (while not taking themselves too seriously).
[quote=“sandman”]The point is, though, that many of these people probably don’t believe they’re “slagging” or “juvenile” at all and would probably be quite offended at your description.
If its a “varsity forum” you’re looking for, perhaps that’s what you should be looking for – this is not a “varsity forum.” Its an expat forum that has all kinds of members, many of whom did not go to varsity and yet have just as much right to post their opinions as you or anybody else. [/quote]
Yet they are held by the same rules, which are not enforced in such a way that elevates the discussion in IP.
Nope. I’m not. I was told to bring questions to feedback.
You’re not a participant in IP. I am. I have a problem with how threads the forum are allowed to degenerate and I hope that some things can be changed for the better of all the posters not interested in slagging. I have made some suggestions. That’s what I can do. That’s what I have done.
[quote]
Some trolls and baiters are plain stupid. But don’t you think some of the best posters have fit into this category as well? Rabble-rousers such as Broonale etc. brought a lot to this site IMHO whether it was rude mother jokes, political insults or astute political commentary. I miss his mother insult posts with Comrade Stalin that provided me with so much entertainment during long work days in Taiwan.[/quote]
I think that era is over. It was fun. Let it go.
[quote=“hardball”]
I think that era is over. It was fun. Let it go. 
[/quote]
As productive members, shouldn’t we be highlighting best practices?
[quote=“Chewycorns”][quote=“hardball”]
I think that era is over. It was fun. Let it go. [/quote]
As productive members, shouldn’t we be highlighting best practices? [/quote]
Yeah well…you weren’t modding the forum then.
Thanks for the reminder. I forget, I am not the intelligentsia.[/quote]
Are you baiting me?
Maybe after a few more years onflob, you might not find the knuckleheads so endearing…[/quote]
dunno about that, but for now can’t stand ‘arrogant, know it all, I am God’s gift to this forum, others are knuckleheads’ newbies.
[quote]
But I would totally understand people who consider it to be SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS!!! getting irritated and wanting somewhere else to discuss it away out of earshot of such people.[/quote]
It doesn’t need to be SFB, sandman. Quiet would be nice. Thoughtful even better.
Maybe a Papa’s Lounge with Lazy Boy chairs, cigars, a virtual pool table and the door locked.
Either way…s’not my call.