Is it all the KMT's fault?

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

It is all the KMT fault

  • yes
  • no
  • I wrote the letter, so I cannot vote

0 voters

[quote]http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2006/06/22/2003314941
It was 50 years of KMT rule that taught people how to cheat and be corrupt in the first place. It will be a long time before people manage to get the party’s corrupt ways out of their system.

This is maybe why the president’s son in-law learned his bad ways from his father, who belonged to the KMT.[/quote]

:laughing: :bravo: :laughing:

TI denial at its very best. Gotta love it.

But seriously is it all the KMT fault?

2

If KMT was clean at first, maybe they wouldn’t get kicked out from China.
If KMT was clean at first, maybe the GDP of Taiwan would be a lot bigger.
If KMT was clean at first, people wouldn’t resent it so much.
If KMT was clean at first, there would be no excuse as “the others do it, so why shouldn’t I”.

3

I personally blame European imperialists, especially the Portugese. If they weren’t so corrupt and inhumane, maybe the Qing dynasty wouldn’t have become so corrupt and inhumane. If the Qing dynasty wasn’t so corrupt and inhumane, then the KMT/ROC that replaced it wouldnt’ have been taught to be so corrupt and inhumane.

And, of course, then Taiwan wouldn’t be so corrupt and inhumane today either.

~tongue firmly in cheek~

4

This is meant as a troll bait and should be locked or floundered.

Surely I expected something more imaginative.

Its an EDITORIAL.

Listen, at the end of the day, even the Americans had to fight for freedom from the British. If it comes to that, “Give me liberty or give me death”.

CCTang, pray tell, if Taiwan is so corrupt and inhumane, would the President’s son in law be rotting in jail right now? What do you consider China then with the worlds worst 10 civil liberties and human rights? Or Hu Jintao, considered one of the worst dictators in the world?

5

Personally I blame the original Qin emperor, the founder of the Chinese nation-state. If he hadn’t been so corrupt and inhumane, burning the books and forcing thousands into slave labor to build the Great Wall, then Chinese people wouldn’t have learned to become so corrupt and inhumane. It’s all that greedy power-hungry bastard’s fault.

6

Speaking of giving you liberty or death, ShrimpCracker … have you finished your mandatory service in the ROC military yet? In which unit?

(And you might want to look up the term ‘tongue in cheek’. It’s yet another one of those idioms you might not be familiar with.)

7

Of course the Japanese have been absolved of all corruption on Taiwan.

8

[quote=“cctang”]Speaking of giving you liberty or death, ShrimpCracker … have you finished your mandatory service in the ROC military yet? In which unit?

(And you might want to look up the term ‘tongue in cheek’. It’s yet another one of those idioms you might not be familiar with.)[/quote]

I haven’t been drafted yet. Again, I remember you and AC making lots of assumptions about me, you’re both stalking the wrong people. Also, its frightening that you guys would even attempt doing so simply because I have different opinions.

Did you ever join the military? Hrm. I at least went for ROTC and reponded to the Navy.

Meanwhile our people, unlike yours, have worked on getting lots and lots more senators and congressmen in the United States joining the Taiwan Caucus. China Caucus exists but ironically its mostly full of people who dislike the CCP.

9

You’re a troll. What does the Japanese have to do with all this?

10

[quote=“ShrimpCrackers”]
I haven’t been drafted yet. Again, I remember you and AC making lots of assumptions about me, you’re both stalking the wrong people. Also, its frightening that you guys would even attempt doing so simply because I have different opinions.[/quote]
What I think is really frightening is you calling for “liberty or death” when you’re not talking about your own death.

EDIT: After all, the statement “give me liberty or give me death” is some how quite a bit more noble than “give him liberty or give him death”.

You don’t need to be “drafted” into the ROC military. All male ROC citizens must serve in the military, unless you happen to be Chen Shui-bian’s son and can claim a medical condition. You served in the US ROTC, so you don’t have a military condition. So, you must not be a ROC citizen, and you probably have no intention whatsoever of dying for Taiwanese independence.

11

Shrimp,

Obviously the Japanese left an infrastructure that the could be easily abuse by the KMT. Thus, using similar reasoning. Its the Japanese that taught the Taiwanese how to be corrupt.

Granted the Japanese learn how to be corrupt from the Chinese on another island chain off the Mainland. But that’s besides the point.

Just reading his post I’m pretty sure there’s a condition, all right.

12

[quote=“cctang”]I personally blame European imperialists, especially the Portugese. If they weren’t so corrupt and inhumane, maybe the Qing dynasty wouldn’t have become so corrupt and inhumane. If the Qing dynasty wasn’t so corrupt and inhumane, then the KMT/ROC that replaced it wouldnt’ have been taught to be so corrupt and inhumane.

And, of course, then Taiwan wouldn’t be so corrupt and inhumane today either.

~tongue firmly in cheek~[/quote]

while I can do a post flaming you, I wont. The post you made is enough to be worth a thousand laughs. So now the problems in Taiwan are because the European imperialists?
I’ll pretend I never saw this one here…

13

Oops…

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[quote=“mr_boogie”]If KMT was clean at first, maybe they wouldn’t get kicked out from China.
If KMT was clean at first, maybe the GDP of Taiwan would be a lot bigger.
If KMT was clean at first, people wouldn’t resent it so much.
If KMT was clean at first, there would be no excuse as “the others do it, so why shouldn’t I”.[/quote]

If KMT was clean at first, they wouldn’t have so many voters that still think the ‘gold pot’ will be there again for the grab after the KMT takes over power again.

15

[quote=“belgian pie”][quote=“mr_boogie”]If KMT was clean at first, maybe they wouldn’t get kicked out from China.
If KMT was clean at first, maybe the GDP of Taiwan would be a lot bigger.
If KMT was clean at first, people wouldn’t resent it so much.
If KMT was clean at first, there would be no excuse as “the others do it, so why shouldn’t I”.[/quote]

If KMT was clean at first, they wouldn’t have so many voters that still think the ‘gold pot’ will be there again for the grab after the KMT takes over power again.[/quote]

frightening thing is… i believe the gold pot is still nicely overflowing with others’ $. its how they treat those that tried to redistribute this wealth post-return to power that scares me.

16

[quote=“cctang”][quote=“ShrimpCrackers”]
I haven’t been drafted yet. Again, I remember you and AC making lots of assumptions about me, you’re both stalking the wrong people. Also, its frightening that you guys would even attempt doing so simply because I have different opinions.[/quote]
What I think is really frightening is you calling for “liberty or death” when you’re not talking about your own death.

EDIT: After all, the statement “give me liberty or give me death” is some how quite a bit more noble than “give him liberty or give him death”.

You don’t need to be “drafted” into the ROC military. All male ROC citizens must serve in the military, unless you happen to be Chen Shui-bian’s son and can claim a medical condition. You served in the US ROTC, so you don’t have a military condition. So, you must not be a ROC citizen, and you probably have no intention whatsoever of dying for Taiwanese independence.[/quote]

I find your insinuations insulting.

No they have to draft you as in you get selected. Everyone gets drafted, just not at the same time. As I’m still a college student in the United States, they haven’t drafted me yet. After I get all my degrees then I will serve. Meanwhile you’re again making STUPID assumptions as I am a dual citizen (OF AMERICA AND TAIWAN). Haven’t we established that after AC Dropout made funny accusations that I was born in America and that supposedly my family came from China a generation ago? I mean seriously whats with the stalking the wrong guy? I thought the KMT guys were supposed to be competent in being college/campus spies and what not. I guess that dispells that rumor, or maybe its incompetence, kind of like how the KMT went from “Richest Party in a Democracy” to “Selling Siezed Property to Pay Off Pensions” in just 5 years.

One of my uncles has said that in Wired Magazine that despite everything, despite the factories in China, when it comes down to it he’ll be defending Taiwan. So when and if the Communists do try to invade Taiwan, he and I will be there popping enemy soldiers. Add to the fact that another uncle is a cop and another is a shooting champion in Taiwan adds to it. Thank you.

I personally particularly dislike scum who believe in racial superiority or love governments that freely kill innocents.

Again, I do vow to kill any Chinese soldiers that attempt to invade Taiwan or screw with America. Give me liberty, or give me death!

Never question my character like that again.

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Shrimp,

Obviously the Japanese left an infrastructure that the could be easily abuse by the KMT. Thus, using similar reasoning. Its the Japanese that taught the Taiwanese how to be corrupt.

Granted the Japanese learn how to be corrupt from the Chinese on another island chain off the Mainland. But that’s besides the point. [/quote]

What a huuge stretch? So you’re saying that because the KMT abused the infrastructure in Taiwan that somehow the Taiwanese are corrupt? Not a minor chunk of these pan blue politicians were born in China raised by corrupt officials themselves whom were kicked out of China. Anyway someone here has managed to overload and break my BS meter.

17

I could make a mocking comment here… but that’d detract from my message.

I’ll just be as truthful and honest as you can: understand that there are hundreds of millions of young Chinese on the other side of the strait who feel just as strongly about killing you, and losing their own lives, in order to defend the Chinese nation. Understand that. If you haven’t yet, take a trip to mainland China. Understand that.

18

Back on topic:
I still say that since the article is an editorial, I won’t blame the KMT for “everything”. but if someone wants to rant off on KMT corruption, well its not like the Pan Blues advertise themselves as the “Clean Party” so whoop dee doo. What else is new?

Off topic:

[quote=“cctang”]I could make a mocking comment here… but that’d detract from my message.

I’ll just be as truthful and honest as you can: understand that there are hundreds of millions of young Chinese on the other side of the strait who feel just as strongly about killing you, and losing their own lives, in order to defend the Chinese nation. Understand that. If you haven’t yet, take a trip to mainland China. Understand that.[/quote]

I’ll just be as truthful and honest as you can: understand that there may be hundreds of millions of deaths that the Chinese will face if they dare invade Taiwan, which you know will happen but seem not to care about. Nothing personal but those “millions” I’m sure had parents or grandparents who were downright hippy about thinking about killing a few Japanese soldiers. They did little honestly.

First off, China’s army doesn’t amount in the hundreds of millions, unless you’d want a few hundred million Chinese citizens drowning in the Taiwan Strait in a poorly hacked attempt to swim over…

Second, the Chinese army numbers in the low low millions (most are inactive) and those that are active are poorly trained and equipped.

Third, I don’t give a rats ass if its all 1.3 billion coming to invade, I’ll take up my gun even faster.

“Defending a Chinese Nation” is beginning to sound familiar, kinda similar to an early video about “Defending against the encroaching Jews on the Aryan race”. Wanna read Mein Kampf? Edit: I think I have the video (not of Mein Kampf but of an old German propoganda video somewhere, I can upload it later.)

Anyway using race as a excuse to attack an independent democracy is disguisting. But then again Chinese history shows that if there is one thing “us Chinese do best, its a love for killing ourselves”. I don’t know how many other nations have histories dotted with more wars and civil wars than China’s. Likely not many.

Plus history tends to repeat itself. China’s successive governments tend to oppress and kill their own citizens. They also lose quite a lot of wars. Unless something huge changes they will lose the one against Taiwan as well… and still continue to kill many of their own citizens due to neglect, incompetence, etc. I mean seriously, after 4000 years of want of unification of all the Chinese peoples, China is still a third world country.

I have taken trips to mainland China although I can’t recently. From my experience most Chinese, except for the card carrying Chinese Communist Party members, don’t give a crap about Taiwan and are more concerned about themselves and their livelyhoods.

19

card carrying CCP members are more than the Taiwanese. So one may argue that more Chinese want Taiwan to be part of China. The real problem is that DPP started the blockade to China.

In 2000, when they where ellected, DPP cut off relatioships with China, stopped all the direct links and made it almost impossible for Chinese citizens to come to Taiwan. This is all their wrongdoings, isn’t it? Also, don’t forget that CSB back in the 1970’s lost the seat of Taiwan in the UN.

Of course, even in 1890, it was CSB who signed the Shimonoseki Treaty, who ceeded Formosa and the Pescadores to Japan.
The main problem was that CSB was in Taiwan because of SARS so he couldn’t go to San Francisco to sign the treaty and put black and white what would happen to Taiwan.

20

Let me paraphrase you to make a point:

The only difference between our two statements apart from switching around Taiwan/China is that your observation is based on a fleeting holiday trip to China followed by a few weeks sightseeing in Taiwan, whereas mine is based on many years of living and working in both…

Regardless, let me fill you in on a fact you seem to be sorely misinformed about SC… you drastically overestimate the willingness of the Taiwanese to fight a war with China… I’ve lived and done business here for many years, and I’ve met many, many, people from all walks of Taiwanese society from senior politicians and military people to peasants, from green to blue and every shade in between and there is one common sentiment between them that holds true across the spectrum… Let me explain it to you like this in the hopes that it’ll get past your idealism and naivety filters… You talk a good game from your cushy home in New York on the other side of the world, but let me assure you, if push does come to shove, and if your vitriol and big words actually amount to anything when the chips are down, you’ll find the front line in Taiwan to be a very lonely place indeed…

doubt this very much at your own peril…