Is Racism Here the Same as Racism at Home?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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culture, my white hairy ass.

try initiating some racism against say, oriental people here, and you will find, people will not even listen to your bullshit about it for half a second, much less read it.

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It would be nice in this thread to see a bit more pre-emptive thoughtfulness when it comes to responding. The only true freedom we human beans have is that over our response to any given situation.

May I now take this time to remind us ALL of the rules:

In other words, calm down and discuss. Stop bashing.

and this:

We WILL discuss this here. It would be nice to do so in a mature way. If you do not wish to discuss this topic in a thoughtful manner…there a like a billion other threads…enjoy :slight_smile: If you feel that someone is a troll/smurf PM a mod…ie, Durin’s Bane :wink: or admin…

and this:

This is what I’ll be watching. Calling someone stupid is in fact a violation of the rules as I see them. Find a more appropriate way to say what you have to say please. This is a mature topic…the Hot Dog Thread can be found in the Flounder Forum.

and finally:

The line-toeing is happening here.

Enjoy. These are real people communicating without you’re being able to see their facial expressions or hear their tone of voice. Keep that in mind please.

jdsmith
Living in Taiwan Moderator

Peace

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[quote=“tash”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]Tash -
Welcome. :bravo:[/quote]Thanks!
Is that for real? :s or you just wanna lure me into coming to HH so you can beat me up for that “revocation of independence” thread? :smiley:[/quote]tash -
Well, as far as for me, yeah…its for “real.”
Good posts.
Hell, I’m in Tainan, nobody comes here for a ‘Happy Hour.’
Well, Ironman did, but it was at 0900 and raining like hell. So we just sat in the hotel and chatted for an hour or so.

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[quote=“tash”]You

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[quote=“tash”]

[quote]
Your comparison of a defense of racism to comments on being overweight is ludicrous. Has prejudice against the overweight resulted in the deaths of many millions under Nazi Germany? Has it been a factor in the oppression of native Americans, the slave trade in the Americas, or ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe or Africa, or in colonial oppression in Africa, the Middle East or Asia? [/quote]
Nope. Not ludicrous. The difference between the two evils is that one has many precedants and instances have happened on a larger scale, therefore, has relevance to the society and even humanity. But if you leave history and humanity as a whole aside for a moment, consider that perhaps both can be equally hurtfull and damaging on a daily, small scale basis, to the victim. If a black person and an overweight person both get turned down for the same job and they

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[quote=“naijeru”][quote=“tash”]

[quote]
Your comparison of a defense of racism to comments on being overweight is ludicrous. Has prejudice against the overweight resulted in the deaths of many millions under Nazi Germany? Has it been a factor in the oppression of native Americans, the slave trade in the Americas, or ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe or Africa, or in colonial oppression in Africa, the Middle East or Asia? [/quote]
Nope. Not ludicrous. The difference between the two evils is that one has many precedants and instances have happened on a larger scale, therefore, has relevance to the society and even humanity. But if you leave history and humanity as a whole aside for a moment, consider that perhaps both can be equally hurtfull and damaging on a daily, small scale basis, to the victim. If a black person and an overweight person both get turned down for the same job and they?e both told it? due to their color and weight respectivelly. And they both claim they are hurt and disadvantaged. Will you say to the overweight person that they should stand behind the black person in the line for complaints because their claim is less relevant?[/quote]
The primary problem with comparing race and weight is that race is an intrinsic quality, whereas weight is not. People do have control over their weight, even if to varying degrees, and this can change throughout a person’s life. Race is not decided upon nor can it be altered. The consideration of race extends far beyond just being turned down for a job because of the color of one’s skin, and as such it is ludicrous to make a comparison between the two.[/quote]

That is an excellent point as well, the intrinsic quality of one’s race and certainly food for thought for me to consider when it comes this important issue. I would not be so quick to call others’ beliefs as ludicrous since I am always learning, but we all have different styles of communicating. I like how the moderator has asked for folks to stay calm and discuss, because this is an triggering issue for many, certainly for me, and I’d like to learn more from everyone while I strive to deepening my own understanding and thinking around all this, which was why I agreed with Tash’s first post of wanting to make more space for discussions to take place instead of writing someone off out of autopilot, no matter how challenging it can be, because I really believe that’s what helps us to coexist without resorting to attacking, blaming or violence.

I don’t like being discriminated against, and I try not to discriminate against others to the best of I know how at any given moment. I certainly have caught myself being racist at different moments and I felt a lot of shame and I try to repair to the best of my ability as well, first by start owning my part in the interaction, which is why I want to learn more from these discussions so I can become more aware and think for myself what it means for me to live in this multicultural world. I just know that I learn better, and more, when the learning environment is not one that is punitive, but open, forgiving and empowering, hopefully for all parties involved. I try to remember that, too, when I deal with people who I perceive to be racist: how else are we going to evolve to a better place and truly be compassionate for one another?

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Now that I am thinking about race as an intrinsic quality and weight as not…is that really so? I can see that it’s much harder to change one’s skin color than one’s weight…(I imagine so, but I have never been obese so I don’t really know)…but what are the implications? It’s harder to change one’s skin color (assuming that’s true), so therefore the person suffers more, because there is no hope of changing how one is going to be treated? Can we really measure pain that way? What is the point of doing that? I know I don’t like to invalidate anyone’s suffering by comparing it to others even if it’s to “put it into perspective.” (Well, I do feel the urge to “put things into perspective” every now and then, because it certainly has its value and helps to de-escalate us from catostrophyzing(sp!), but I also know that sometimes I feel the urge not only because I want to help, because I want the person in front of me to “put it into perspective” so that they feel better and I therefore don’t have to tolerate their pain. Sometimes what people need is for their pain to be validated and witnessed though, and they naturally know how to heal themselves and change for the better once they felt supported and understood. Things are not quite so black and white when it comes to suffering and pain.)

I didn’t agree with anything the OP stated, but then again I wasn’t really clear on what he was trying to convey, either. I’d like to have had the chance to ask him questions and hear his responses. If anything, if I truly don’t agree with what someone is saying, and I am afraid what they believe is going to cause more harm to the world and trigger even more violence, why would I want to cut the person off and lose the opportunity of trying to influence him/her? I think I’d be more useful in creating the change that I desire through somehow staying connected with the person and trust that we both are going to be taken care of, learn more, and together move to a more loving place than where we both started from.

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I offered the poo guy that “out” in an earlier post but he rejected it. All I can assume from that, therefore, is that no, as far as he’s concerned, racism is OK for Chinese.

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[quote=“naijeru”][quote=“tash”]

[quote]
Your comparison of a defense of racism to comments on being overweight is ludicrous. Has prejudice against the overweight resulted in the deaths of many millions under Nazi Germany? Has it been a factor in the oppression of native Americans, the slave trade in the Americas, or ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe or Africa, or in colonial oppression in Africa, the Middle East or Asia? [/quote]
Nope. Not ludicrous. The difference between the two evils is that one has many precedants and instances have happened on a larger scale, therefore, has relevance to the society and even humanity. But if you leave history and humanity as a whole aside for a moment, consider that perhaps both can be equally hurtfull and damaging on a daily, small scale basis, to the victim. If a black person and an overweight person both get turned down for the same job and they

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Jubom,

Thanks for contributing to lowering the temperature and raising the quality of this discussion. I know I for one needed that. Sometimes I just can’t resist being childish and getting into the kind of silly exchanges like the one with DB. But this subject is far to important and interesting to loose it to cheap entertainment.

I hope now more people can join in and contribute in the way you have.

tash

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jubom wrote:

I agree with this completely. Ostrasizing someone you strongly disagree with is easy, but it serves little purpose.

Convincing someone that something they strongly believe is inherently wrong takes patience and lots of understanding and a healthy dose of compassion, as well as an ability to bite one’s own tongue when necessary.

Now, where were we??

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Thanks for clarifying. I see why you made the comparison, my point is that since racism and weight discrimination are so different any comparison between the two ultimately boils down to, “Discrimination sucks!” I think we are all in agreement on this. The comparison is not useful for supporting any arguments about race because the differences neglected in order to make the comparison in the first place apply to the situation being discussed.

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Very well put!

As for taking enormous amounts of patience and time to change someone’s deep beliefs, yes, it does, but I am only willing to invest that time with people whose opinions I value. I can get a higher return on my time & energy investment in other ways, like directly helping those in need. Furthermore, I believe that feeding a tr— er, troubling poster only encourages it.

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It’s not “harder” to change one’s skin color, it’s impossible. That is a very important distinction. Even if one could change their color, the knowledge they were previously the undesirable color would erase any benefit one enjoyed by changing color. There are many tragic stories of this happening to blacks who can “pass” for white. Furthermore, why should one even consider changing their skin color in order to be treated like a human being? This is far different from being overweight, which is a legitimate health risk that one should address for one’s own sake, not the sake of those who would discriminate. Changing one’s skin color would only be for the sake of those who would discriminate.

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Some of you are over-complicating an incredibly simple issue.

A previously banned troll came on making stupid racist comments.

He was rightly put in his place.

Then someone complained that he wasn’t given a fair hearing, or that those who called him on his racism did so too quickly, without discussing the issue in depth.

What a lot of bullshit. His comments were not worthy of discussion and were most certainly deserving of the slapping he got.

End of story. Any further blathering is just talking out your arse.

Brian

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[quote=“Bu Lai En”]

End of story. Any further blathering is just talking out your arse.

Brian[/quote]

uhm…BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!

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[quote=“naijeru”]
Thanks for clarifying. I see why you made the comparison, my point is that since racism and weight discrimination are so different any comparison between the two ultimately boils down to, “Discrimination sucks!” I think we are all in agreement on this. The comparison is not useful for supporting any arguments about race because the differences neglected in order to make the comparison in the first place apply to the situation being discussed.[/quote]

I don’t think we disagree at all, naijeru. I think the ‘problem’ is that we’re discussing two different points. I was making one point and then you came in, extracted one part of it and started responding from the point of you of the point you are trying to make. Your point is fine in its own right, but it doesn’t cross paths with mine.

I hope you don’t mind if I leave it at that.

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[quote=“Bu Lai En”]Some of you are over-complicating an incredibly simple issue.

A previously banned troll came on making stupid racist comments.

He was rightly put in his place.

Then someone complained that he wasn’t given a fair hearing, or that those who called him on his racism did so too quickly, without discussing the issue in depth.

What a lot of bullshit. His comments were not worthy of discussion and were most certainly deserving of the slapping he got.

End of story. Any further blathering is just talking out your arse.

Brian[/quote]

Thanks, Brian! Every forum needs a guy like you to remind us of why and how we got ourselves into this in the first place.

If you don’t mind, could you just answer me one question though: Who decides, and how, which comments here are “worthy of discussion”?
Also, if you don’t mind, please don’t quote the rules again. I would like to know more specifically than that. Thanks!

And as far as my bottom is concerned (excuse the euphemism, but I’m too delicate for the a-word :blush: ), I think talking out of one’s gets an undeserved bad rap. I think that’s because most people aren’t proud of theirs and just don’t like attracting any attention to it. But, I’ll tell you this, If yours was as fine as mine, you couldn’t help but talk out of it more often either :wink:

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:astonished:

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okay …this is getting really weird…