It's official, Taiwan is not China

taipeitimes.com/News/front/archi … 03486837/1

Interesting that the Premier of the Republic of China (aka Taiwan) agrees then that Taiwan, China would be incorrect?? So it would be official then. Taiwan is not China.

I was under the impression that Taiwan is NOT part of the People’s Republic of China but that Taiwan IS part of the Republic of China which does mean China?

Actually Taiwan should perhaps be better said to be Taiwan Province of Japan?

I am certainly not pro PRC, but the call for the Taiwan delegation to add Chinese Taipei (a formula accepted by the ROC/PRC) should be acceptable as well as Taiwan,China . Because the China in this case is arguably the Republic of China. Which Taiwan IS part of?

IF the ROC mandate on TAiwan is accurate and legal then TAiwan is still part of the Republic of China. We are of course NOT part of the PRC or the PRC’s China.

Jiang in this case is actually not wrong. Taiwan is “Taiwan, China” at this current juncture.

But it isn’t accurate and the larger powers in the world (the US for instance) do not recognize the ROC. They certainly don’t recognize the ROC as having a legitimate claim over all of China. Can’t remember what it’s covered under but Taiwan is not supposed to make any territorial claims on China.

LTH tried to change the constitution but couldn’t ram it through the legislature. After 15 years of not hearing the government making claims to China most Taiwanese thought the matter was long settled. People here were very shocked when Ma started it up again.

[quote=“tommy525”] … So it would be official then. Taiwan is not China.

I was under the impression that Taiwan is NOT part of the People’s Republic of China but that Taiwan IS part of the Republic of China … ? … [/quote]
None of the Allies recognized any transfer of the territorial sovereignty of Taiwan to “China” upon the Oct. 25, 1945, surrender date of Japanese troops on the island. Hence, there was no “Taiwan Retrocession Day.” As discussed many times in various threads on forumosa.com, the post-war treaties did not award the territorial sovereignty of Taiwan to “China” either.

This entire matter was further clarified in a 1959 case in the Washington D.C. Circuit Court. The decision in Sheng v. Rogers quoted from official State Dept. pronouncements and held: “. . . that the sovereignty of Formosa has not been transferred to China; and that Formosa is not a part of China as a country, . . . . Formosa may be said to be a territory or an area occupied and administered by the Government of the Republic of China, but is not officially recognized as being a part of the Republic of China.”

For more details, see –

Sheng v. Rogers
taiwanbasic.com/state/usg/shengvsro.htm

Starr Memorandum, Dept. of State
taiwanbasic.com/state/usg/starr-mem.htm

I purely enjoyed reading all the different news articles talking about the Japan film festival event. It brought me smirking and a “ha”.

Now, if only Taiwan could also act this way towards the Olympics… smacks forehead >.<

[quote=“goingstrong”]I purely enjoyed reading all the different news articles talking about the Japan film festival event. It brought me smirking and a “ha”.

Now, if only Taiwan could also act this way towards the Olympics… smacks forehead >.<[/quote]

I thoroughly do not enjoy reading posts that are this cryptic. Would you care to tell us what you read, what you enjoyed, and why?

Yeah, i think those claims are silly. And i really doubt that more than a fraction of the Taiwanese population has an interest in Taiwan taking control of all of China, so why is there a government in Taipei that still clings to this idea? Oh, i forgot, saying, “we are democratic” doesn’t make it that.

Anyway, if Taipei were to drop this silly notion of being the legitimate government of (continental) China and instead acknowledged that the PRC is a country in its own right, then Taiwan could instantly find itself recognized as a country, too. But it also seems the current government doesn’t really want THAT… Just thinking aloud…

Its actually a wee bit more complex then that. In fact the Rep of China has acknowledged that Mainland China is now under the control of the PRC, and has stopped adding the word “bandit” when naming officials of the PRC like in the past, when it was Mao-bandit-tse tung and Teng-bandit-shiao ping, etc.

The ROC has also tacitly abandoned the intent to retake the mainland. Lots of other considerations:

  1. The KMT would kind of lose its raison d’etre if the ROC deceases to be. The KMT party symbol the white sun is part of the flag of the ROC in fact.

  2. The CCP of China is vehemently opposed to the independence of Taiwan and prefers to sleep with its former enemy the KMT then to “lose” Taiwan to the likes of such as the DPP (who is not only the major opposition party in Taiwan but in fact is a Revolutionary Party with its aim to overthrow the KMT and to de-legitimize the ROC as well).

  3. Roughly half/half of the peoples on Taiwan support the KMT/DPP. This creates major political yin/yang with the obvious potential for tremendous internal strife.

Taiwan is a political quagmire of the first order.

DPP supporters are scared to death that PRC might rob them dry if they take over.
The pro-unification camp points out that by using HK model of governance as a special district Taiwan can continue to prosper.

The DPP has been the party of the working class, supporting public works projects and entitlement programs for the poor. If Taiwan does not unify with China, rich taiwanese may eventually migrate to HK (most of them spend the majority of the time in China for business), while the poor claim it’s good riddance.

[quote=“TaipeiD”]DPP supporters are scared to death that PRC might rob them dry if they take over.
The pro-unification camp points out that by using HK model of governance as a special district Taiwan can continue to prosper.

The DPP has been the party of the working class, supporting public works projects and entitlement programs for the poor. If Taiwan does not unify with China, rich taiwanese may eventually migrate to HK (most of them spend the majority of the time in China for business), while the poor claim it’s good riddance.[/quote]

Hate to burst your bubble but the pro-unification camp is a bunch of dying old mainlanders and a few of their offspring who don’t get out much. Do not equate KMT support for support of unification, or much of their agenda. Only a very very small percentage want this. The HK model would never be supported here.

Are you really just another sad westerner who dropped off his values at the airport? “Hey Taiwan, why don’t you sell out your freedoms so I and my friends can make more money.”

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“TaipeiD”]DPP supporters are scared to death that PRC might rob them dry if they take over.
The pro-unification camp points out that by using HK model of governance as a special district Taiwan can continue to prosper.

The DPP has been the party of the working class, supporting public works projects and entitlement programs for the poor. If Taiwan does not unify with China, rich taiwanese may eventually migrate to HK (most of them spend the majority of the time in China for business), while the poor claim it’s good riddance.[/quote]

Hate to burst your bubble but the pro-unification camp is a bunch of dying old mainlanders and a few of their offspring who don’t get out much. Do not equate KMT support for support of unification, or much of their agenda. Only a very very small percentage want this. The HK model would never be supported here.

Are you really just another sad westerner who dropped off his values at the airport? “Hey Taiwan, why don’t you sell out so I and my friends can make more money.”[/quote]

No worries, we’ll continue to inflate.

If KMT doesn’t get much support except from a few dying old mainlanders, how did poor Ma get elected by popular vote?

[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“Muzha Man”][quote=“TaipeiD”]DPP supporters are scared to death that PRC might rob them dry if they take over.
The pro-unification camp points out that by using HK model of governance as a special district Taiwan can continue to prosper.

The DPP has been the party of the working class, supporting public works projects and entitlement programs for the poor. If Taiwan does not unify with China, rich taiwanese may eventually migrate to HK (most of them spend the majority of the time in China for business), while the poor claim it’s good riddance.[/quote]

Hate to burst your bubble but the pro-unification camp is a bunch of dying old mainlanders and a few of their offspring who don’t get out much. Do not equate KMT support for support of unification, or much of their agenda. Only a very very small percentage want this. The HK model would never be supported here.

Are you really just another sad westerner who dropped off his values at the airport? “Hey Taiwan, why don’t you sell out so I and my friends can make more money.”[/quote]

No worries, we’ll continue to inflate.

If KMT doesn’t get much support except from a few dying old mainlanders, how did poor Ma get elected by popular vote?[/quote]

I didn’t say the KMT, I said unification. You can speculate all you want but there are polls from multiple sources, including blue universities and newspapers, that all say the same thing. Support for unification is around 10-15% of the population. It shrinks all the time as the old ones die off.

Ma was also voted in with a promise to not even discuss politics with China. He pledged no discussion on unification.

He has also disavowed the HK model as suitable for Taiwan.

[quote=“Mucha Man”]

Ma was also voted in with a promise to not even discuss politics with China. He pledged no discussion on unification.

He has also disavowed the HK model as suitable for Taiwan.[/quote]

Do you really believe him?

My hunch is that you don’t believe him at all.

Former VP calls on Ma to disavow reunification
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003486779

“Lu said Ma had created an image that he not only favored unification, but also wanted to achieve that goal as quickly as possible, making media outlets keen to ask him to explain his position.”

[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“Muzha Man”]

Ma was also voted in with a promise to not even discuss politics with China. He pledged no discussion on unification.

He has also disavowed the HK model as suitable for Taiwan.[/quote]

Do you really believe him?

My hunch is that you don’t believe him at all.[/quote]

What does that matter? That’s how he was voted in. That’s what he had to say to get voted in. He had a good reputation before he became president so many believed him.

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“Muzha Man”]

Ma was also voted in with a promise to not even discuss politics with China. He pledged no discussion on unification.

He has also disavowed the HK model as suitable for Taiwan.[/quote]

Do you really believe him?

My hunch is that you don’t believe him at all.[/quote]

What does that matter? That’s how he was voted in. That’s what he had to say to get voted in. He had a good reputation before he became president so many believed him.[/quote]

True. He said that he pledges no unification under his term, but so far his actions indicated that he is SLOWLY moving towards unification.

[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“Muzha Man”][quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“Muzha Man”]

Ma was also voted in with a promise to not even discuss politics with China. He pledged no discussion on unification.

He has also disavowed the HK model as suitable for Taiwan.[/quote]

Do you really believe him?

My hunch is that you don’t believe him at all.[/quote]

What does that matter? That’s how he was voted in. That’s what he had to say to get voted in. He had a good reputation before he became president so many believed him.[/quote]

True. He said that he pledges no unification under his term, but so far his actions indicated that he is SLOWLY moving towards unification.[/quote]

Which is why he’s so popular, right?

My apologies if I was cryptic in my last post, but I can’t really go too much in-depth of a reaction to an event that is like a punch in the eye towards China.

I just enjoyed the outcome of the Taiwanese particpants going flat out “no” towards the Chinese. What’s more, the Taiwanese participants are wearing green neckties. :smiley: Taiwan’s always been “Taiwan” in the Japan film festival, but this little squabble feels somewhat of a significance to me.

Hence, I just wish Taiwan was this defiant in the Olympics. :frowning: (<-- Hence, a :doh: )

Correction. They personally hope to prosper under unification - they couldn’t care less about Taiwan as a whole.

As was observed, there is a difference between support for the KMT and support for unification. If Ma were to say at the next election, “if re-elected to office, I pledge to set Taiwan/the ROC firmly on the path to unification with the PRC” his support would plummet.

At best you can claim that Ma is successfully deceiving the public as to his real intentions.

From my understanding, and please correct me if I’m wrong, as I often am…the Taiwanese delegation was bullied by a Chinese delegate and thus walked away and out of the festival. My question is why? Why didn’t they just push past the bully? What authority does the mainland twit have in Japan?

As I read it, both PRC and TW stars ended up not attending the ceremony.

japanprobe.com/
The Chinese delegation has withdrawn its participation in events at the Tokyo International Film Festival because the festival has allowed a Taiwanese delegation (not a “Chinese Taipei” or “Taiwan, China” delegation) to attend the festival:

Jiang Ping, the head of the Chinese contingent at the festival said Saturday that the Taiwan delegation should be renamed the “China Taiwan delegation”, shortly before the opening ceremony.

His Taiwanese counterpart flatly rejected the call, and on Sunday a government spokesman waded into the row.
“The Chinese delegation should not use politics to interfere in the movie exchanges,” Taiwan government spokesman Johnny Chiang told the state Central News Agency.

“The move has infringed the rights of Taiwan people participating in the the film festival.”
In the wake of the row, stars from both delegations missed the walk along the “green carpet” — changed from the traditional red to highlight environmental concerns — which kicked off the festival.

China boycotted the opening ceremony because it was angry about the Taiwan naming issue. Taiwan’s delegation also did not participate, apparently to show their disapproval towards China. The Japanese press is reporting that Taiwanese actress Vivian Hsu was reduced to tears when she heard that she would not be able to participate in the Green Carpet opening ceremony.

An article in the Chinese state propaganda rag Global Times quotes Jiang as saying that he has no ill-will against his Taiwanese “compatriots.” Instead, he blames the Japanese organizers for accepting the Taiwanese delegation’s application. The article implies that the acceptance of Taiwan’s application has something to do with the Senkaku boat collision dispute. It even mentions the nationalist groups who held anti-Chinese protests, as if they would somehow have influence over a film festival committee.

I am not entirely sure how the naming issue was handled at last year’s festival, but a quick check of the 2009 festival homepage shows that films from China are labeled as such, and films from Taiwan are labeled as “Taiwan” films [Japanese pages also use the kanji for Taiwan]. It looks a lot like Taiwan participated as “Taiwan” last year. If that was so, where was China’s rage back in 2009?


Akihabara News – Gadgetry from Japan (Subscribe)

Who cares? this whole saga is better than the films in the festival themselves.