Kaepernick, sacrifice, and freedom of speech

Or maybe just his judgment. Millions have bought BLM’s bill of goods, and I assume that not all of them have serious character flaws.

Yeah compared to Peter Norman, for example…

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True, but Kaep is also an NFL player, or was. The odds are excellent that Kaep in particular has serious character flaws. He would be a most unusual American to have emerged on the other side of NFL development - Pop Warner through NCAA D1 - as a man with a sterling character. More unicorn than anything else.

I’m not here to defend the NFL. :sunglasses:

There is no evidence of character flaws with Kap beyond any other human. Some are filled with hatred inside them that makes them want to smear people but that is a show of weakness on their part.

Baseless assumptions are for the weak of mind and character.

--------,

Here are the first 2 paragraphs of BLMs mission statement from their site. It doesnt mesh with your assessment of their intentions:

The Black Lives Matter Global Network is a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission is to build local power and to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.

We are expansive . We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

Many roads are paved with good intentions . Reality tends to throw them off course

The rhetoric was out of line there.

Yeah but reality is what we make it. Disengaged cynicism is also a political stance.

This group may have gone in some bad directions but you have to acknowledge why they are angry and upset. Thats where we differ i believe.

I can see why any group that feels oppressed would feel a need to protest , so your presumptions about my views may be a little off there . I am a little confused by your reasonableness … what’s going on ? :yum::joy:

Been drinking more

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More debunking of the Kaepernick/BLM/Democrat narrative:

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To my mind it’s just eerie how the creaky old Democrat infrastructure for racial prejudice, which grew so powerful in the 19th and early 20th centuries, has been repurposed for anti-white bias today. And they don’t realize it; evidently they can’t see it at all. The US is still paying a very high price for very old Democrat habits, more than 150 years after the Civil War.

As has been said before, an encounter with the police in the USA is a kind of come to Jesus meeting that should never ever be underestimated or dismissed. When you encounter a policeman who is performing her or his official duty, whether you realize it or not you have engaged in a delicate dance with a very high authority.

A cop’s job is to enforce the law, and they’re generally very good at recognizing patterns of lawbreaking. If you cooperate with the police fully, and if you have nothing to hide, then the dance will likely end within seconds. The tension will ease palpably, and you will be set free. Until a cop has satisfied his or her instincts, however, it is a very good idea to cooperate fully. Cooperation is best for you, for society at large, and for the cop.

It’s a win-win-win when US citizens cooperate with law enforcement. It can be a fatal mistake not to cooperate. As the author points out, the more crime committed in an area, the higher the risk of noncooperation.

In 2019 that risk has almost nothing to do with racial proportions, and it has almost 100% to do with the actual crime rates in the area a civilian encounters police.

Goff’s attempt to minimize the Correll finding that officers do not shoot unarmed blacks at a higher rate than unarmed whites was sheer desperation, since that finding cuts the heart out of the Black Lives Matter narrative. Correll suggests plausible reasons why officers may be quicker—measured by milliseconds—to reach a shoot decision when confronted by an armed black suspect compared with an armed white suspect: their experience with the demographics of street crime. Not only do blacks commit the vast majority of drive-by shootings (and whites almost none), the Department of Justice has found that police officers are five times more likely to die at the hands of a black suspect than a white suspect.

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FWIW–not trying to cast shade on anything else you say, or necessarily supporting it–this appears to be wrong and perhaps a misquote of language from here?

https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/bernd.wittenbrink/research/pdf/cpjwsk07.pdf

Data from the Department of Justice (2001), itself, indicate that Black suspects are approximately five times more likely than White suspects, per
capita, to die at the hands of a police officer.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2018/topic-pages/officers-feloniously-killed

According to 2018 FBI stats:

In 2018, 55 alleged offenders were identified in connection with the 55 law enforcement officers feloniously killed. Of those offenders, the following characteristics are known:
31 of the alleged offenders were White, 23 were Black/African American, and 1 was Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander. (See Table 42.)

Read the study at @Dr_Milker’s link.

It looks to me like you’re mixing up the case where Black suspects die at the hands of police with the case where police officers die at the hands of Black suspects.

I saw that, and checked it against several documents as I pasted above including 2018 FBI statistics. I don’t think I’m mixing up anything. I laid it out very clearly, take another look.

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I’ll give you points for brevity (always), but not on the clarity front.

I’m not sure what your point is, although I do not doubt that you think you’ve been crystal clear.

Assuming this is relevant to your point, did you see in the CJ study Milker linked to that if Black deaths at the hands of LE are correlated with area crime rates (as opposed to population, i.e., per capita) that the proportions align more closely with the proportion of Blacks as part of the population as a whole? The author makes the argument that this is valid because modern LE is heavily data driven in 2019.

Maybe it’s not relevant to your point, I’m not sure.

It’s not–I’m only talking about the single statistic I quoted, about killings of LE officers.

Ok. Rather than making me scroll up and put this all back together again, can you just briefly state what your point is?

Excellent points…both about the Democrats’ sordid (and continuing) history, and encounters with police! If more people could follow those simple rules, so much tragedy could be prevented.