Kindergarten laws

I am by no means certain, but I seriously doubt the law says “songs and games OK, teaching not OK”. Much more likely it says “People with a foreign passport cannot teach children younger than X years of age.”

Well, I’m not certain either, but I’ve heard that it’s illegal for Taiwanese people to teach a full English or bilingual curriculum to Taiwanese kids before they are 7 years old. The exception is that having occasional English songs or games is not considered a full curriculum. The idea is that the government believes that the kids need to first develop their Chinese language skills. The prohibition on foreign teachers derives from this.

No, it’s not. See above.

This is also part of the law.

And as we all know. The idea is flawed. How else do you explain kids like mine that speak English, Chinese and Taiwanese fluently. As well as foreigners who have kids here who speak English at home and learn Chinese at kindergarten (the opposite of what the law fears), and end up speaking both languages fluently.
The law is stupid, but it is the law. Unfortunately. I’d be interested to know who is benefiting from it, or why they are so adamant to keep it in place.

Besides which, studies have shown that by the time a child turns 7 the brain’s grammatical processes (not sure of the correct term, but I hope you understand what I mean) become hardwired, making it much more difficult to learn a new language. Especially one with very different grammar patterns as the one the child already knows. As a person ages from seven onwards it becomes increasingly more difficult.

There was apparently a study done by Academia Sinica a few years back which concluded that kids who learned English in preschool had no significant advantage over those learning in school, with the exception of pronunciation. I found the results to be surprising, and I wondered what age group they looked at for the comparison, because from what I’ve heard, the longterm effects of full bilingualism don’t really emerge until highschool or uni.

If I am a qualified kindy teacher I can teach kindy. Is it not the teaching of English that is illegal not a foreigner? Is there an actual law saying that a foreigner cannot teach anything? It is just as illegal for a Taiwanese to teach English as a foreigner.

Again just a question but doesn’t it say you cannot have an english lesson that takes time away from other classes. So that if other classes were done in English it is not deemed illegal. Example I do art class and I speak English. If art class is part of the curriculum and I am a qualified art teacher I can teach art in a kindy.

Not quite sure what is so difficult about this.

It is illegal for foreigners to teach kindergarten. Period.

It doesn’t matter if you are teaching art, science, or underwater basket weaving. You can’t teach children who are below school-age.

Actually I’m discovering it’s far less clear than I ever thought: what you’ve just said here is two different things, for example. “Teaching kindergarten” to me = teaching in a kindergarten, which is a specific institution. “Teaching children who are below school-age” is quite a different thing, and states - doesn’t imply, states - that I’m breaking the law every time I see family friends and (to my annoyance, but as requested by said family friends) help the kids with a few phrases in English. Obviously that would be ridiculous, but it wouldn’t be the first time laws were ridiculous.

If I sing songs with a group of children, am I teaching them? Is that legal or not? If I play a game with them that requires use of English numbers, is that teaching them?

If I’m teaching at a licensed (is there such a thing?) cram school that has four-year-olds, is that teaching at a kindergarten? Because there are lots of ten-year-olds there too. To me that’s always meant it’s not a kindergarten.

Where do people with APRCS fit in? Where do foreigners who are now Taiwanese citizens fit in? Can Satellite TV teach in a kindergarten? (Heaven forbid, he shudders…) Does foreigner = non Taiwanese citizen, or anybody who’s not “Taiwanese”? (Like ABCs and CBCs.)

Seriously - I’m not just taking the piss here. For years I thought the rule was “Don’t teach in a kindergarten.” And in my first year here I was teaching at a cram school/ buxiban, not a kindergarten, so I and everyone else assumed we were fine, and worried about our poor friends who were teaching in kindergartens and thus had to occasionally flee their schools when police made spot checks. It never even occurred to us that the four-year-olds in some of our classes were a danger to our presence in the country. All these years I’ve assume the laws are based on mysterious-to-me terms naming different institutions “kindergartens” vs. “cram schools” (whatever the Chinese terms are), but I guess I’ve been wrong about that.

Does anyone actually have the Chinese legal terms here?

I think, ImaniOU, is that people feel the law to be unfair, and unfairly enforced. Just because something is legal or illegal doesn’t necessarily reflect on its morality. Educational standards, laws, and enforcement are pretty whimsical here, and some people don’t like being held to a different standard. They come here to vent. They’re not being unreasonable, they’re kvetching.

We can educate the newbies, and be gentle with them all at the same time.

This law will probably never get changed. Too many government officials benefiting from the current law.

That is what they claim. Who knows if it is the real reason? But I find it a little ridiculous for the Taiwanese government to be trying to tell parents what language they need to be learning as children. Some Taiwanese children end up living abroad.

And if the government is really worried about Chinese skills then they would also need to ban Taiwanese from learning Hakka and aboriginal languages in kindergarten. There must be some kindergartens in which Hakka is often spoken.

Personally, I would love to know how they benefit. It just makes no sense to me, but I agree, someone must be benefiting from it.

Well it benefits the government officials that are getting paid off to turn a blind eye.

quick question, I know I can probably look it up but…

Does working at a Kindergarten become legal if your married to a local?

My assumption is, that it is still illegal regardless.

It’s a language issue, not a visa one. It might be a bit harder to deport you if you are on the JFRV, but having a stickier resident visa does not make teaching in an English kindergarten legal.

It’s still illegal, but you probably won’t face deportation, just a large fine.

My wife, who is Taiwanese, used to teach kindergarten and would have to have a morning off every so often because govt. inspectors were checking the school. It’s illegal across the board, whether foreign or Taiwanese.

I keep seeing this idea put forth in this discussion, and every time I read it I experience a moment of confused existential angst. Surely we are talking about different countries:

In the Taiwan where I live, the legality of anything depends on who you are, who you know, and how a law will interpreted.

In the other Taiwan, legal and illegal is a simple yes/no, right/wrong answer. The laws are clear and everybody knows exactly what they mean.

If I ever find out where that Taiwan is, I’m going to move there. It would make I.P. litigation a lot easier.

Thank you, Chaon, for finally bringing a reality check to this thread. Some people in this thread seem to have no idea at all where they are living.

If I have a spousal visa and I am a qualified Kindergaten teacher I can go and work in a kindy.

Nothing to do with languages. but as a kindy teacher. In charge of a class.

This is the whole point of the changes that I can do any job a Taiwanese can do as long as I am qualified.

Whether I speak Chinese, Japanese or English I am not hired for the language but for being a qualified Kindergarten teacher.

If the word ’ teacher ’ is the problem then:

I am a qualified pre school educator. I have studied for 4 years and have a degree in preschool education. Can I work in a preschool?

I believe the answer is yes.

As long as teach in Mandarin Chinese or Taiwanese, it would probably be a borderline case, depending on the judge or prosecutor. But I’d bet they simply wouldn’t believe you, even if you were totally fluent in Chinese. Even Taiwanese are not supposed to teach an English curriculum in kindy. Once they see a foreign face or a foreign passport, they will just assume that you’re teaching English, which the law forbids doing. (See previous posts.)

Is a school defined as a kindergarten based on the age of its students or the kind of school that its registered as?

Some schools have foreigners teaching preschool-aged students and get away with it on the basis that they’re registered as anchinbans for very young learners (so they can’t have school buses and a kitchen, but are essentially kindergartens).

Would these foreigners also be deported if caught?