Red Ken was elected Mayor of London on May 4th 2000, but the GLA only came into existence on June 3rd. The Mayor and Assembly had been elected for a month before they had any power.
Would that have been so hard?
[quote=“cfimages”]
Actually Zhanghua’s case is not so out there. Yuanlin (the town in Zhanghua not the county, Yunlin) is the biggest town in Taiwan and is not that far short of having the population numbers to become a city on its own - it has almost as many as both Hualian and Taidong. It’d make more sense to merge it with Zhanghua city though - together they’d be about the same as Hsinchu (Xinzhu).[/quote]
Well on that basis KMT Taoyuan also had a very good case.
The point is that Taipei, Taizhong, and Gaoxiong are the three major cities in Taiwan, and all have been upgraded.
Just behind, decision deferred is Tainan, which deserves consideration for its cultural significance.
In the next tier are places like Taoyuan and Xinzhu (KMT) or Zhanghua (DPP) which do not meet the requirements for upgrading.
Population figures here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ta … population
All seems quite fair to me (I thought this was DPP policy anyway).
[quote=“Big Fluffy Matthew”]Red Ken was elected Mayor of London on May 4th 2000, but the GLA only came into existence on June 3rd. The Mayor and Assembly had been elected for a month before they had any power.
Would that have been so hard?[/quote]
A one year gap might have been more problematic.
Talking of Red Ken, remember when Thatcher simply abolished the GLC because it opposed her government? All part of the normal political manoeuvring going on. In contrast the KMT upgrade plan seems like a fuss about nothing.
Money. Family. Easy life.
You also seem to have the misguided notion that normal people born and bred here don’t share my views of the three-ring circus that passes for “politics” here. WRONG, yet again. Daft money-grubbing arseholes is what these people are. Completely and utterly amoral and apolitical, out ONLY for what they can grab to line their pockets. And the people that actually believe one side is any better than the other? Sorry, I’d better stop there before you gulp too much air. Take a deep breath, ludahai. Swallowing air like that only makes you fart in the elevator and contrary to what you might think, it doesn’t matter if you stare at the ceiling, whistle, or pretend to read important text messages on your phone, the others KNOW its you that dealt it. And you KNOW they’re thinking to themsleves: “Damn greenies! Can’t even control their own bowels!”
Dude, I’ve lived here for most of my adult life. My social circle is huge, including rice farmers, taxi drivers and media workers, up to upper-mid-level government officials. My views on Taiwanese politics are formed largely on the basis of the opinions of these people, ALL of whom are Taiwanese. So you can jump off your high horse of silly irrelevant nonsense about “loving Taiwan enough” or whatever it is you’re trying to imply. It doesn’t wash. Not with me, not with the thinking people who’ve lived all their lives here, either.[/quote]
[quote=“sandman”][quote=“ludahai”][quote=“cfimages”]
The DPP would have done the very same thing if they could have. For that matter, pretty much every political party in every democratic country in the world would do the same.
Sandman is right - the politicians of this country, no matter what party, are beyond pathetic.[/quote]
Would have - could have. Rubbish. DID the DPP engineer something like this? [/quote]
Yes. But no matter. As always, the argument, such that it is, which isn’t much, has once again degenerated into a wankfest about how to fucking spell, for chrissakes.
A bunch of fucking inept clowns, no matter what colour of baggy pants they’re wearing. Taiwanese politics is an absolute fucking JOKE. Anyone taking it even remotely seriously needs their heads seeing to.
Make money, and let the loudmouthed ignorant arseholes who want to be on the evening news do their THANG. But never for even a second imagine that these pricks in ANY shape or form represent ANYTHING other than the desire to screw their taxpaying counterparts out of their hard-earned money.These are the views of an average Taiwanese.[/quote]
Hilarious!
To quote Skunk Anansie:
Yes it’s fucking political
Everythings political!
Yes it’s fucking satirical
Everythings satirical!
[quote=“cfimages”]
Actually Zhanghua’s case is not so out there. Yuanlin (the town in Zhanghua not the county, Yunlin) is the biggest town in Taiwan and is not that far short of having the population numbers to become a city on its own - it has almost as many as both Hualian and Taidong. It’d make more sense to merge it with Zhanghua city though - together they’d be about the same as Hsinchu (Xinzhu).[/quote]
FYI - Changhua city is a part of Changhua county.
[quote=“Mawvellous”]
Well on that basis KMT Taoyuan also had a very good case.
The point is that Taipei, Taizhong, and Gaoxiong are the three major cities in Taiwan, and all have been upgraded.
Just behind, decision deferred is Tainan, which deserves consideration for its cultural significance.
In the next tier are places like Taoyuan and Xinzhu (KMT) or Zhanghua (DPP) which do not meet the requirements for upgrading.
Population figures here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ta … population
All seems quite fair to me (I thought this was DPP policy anyway).[/quote]
Except that this will result in LESS funds going to the agricultural areas that need it most. It will also resulted in unelected extension of terms of KMT leaders, both of whom would not win in December were there elections (one because he is not popular and the other because of term limits) Of course, the fact that certain Bluebots aren’t concerned about that fact is telling about how they feel about the rule of law and the spirit of regular elections.
[quote=“Mawvellous”]
Who else applied? [/quote]
As far as I know, it was Changhua County as well as Yunlin and Chiayi Counties applying for a merger and upgrade.
Actually, this whole “upgrade” nonsense is silly. There should be an entire administrative boundary reorganization of the country that is systematic and not ad hoc as this move is.
Again, my biggest complaint is that it extends Jason Hu’s tenure to a ninth year without an election and extends the Taipei magistrates term one more year despite the fact that he is unpopular in the county. Still, this kind of ad hoc move rather than a systematic administrative reform shows that the Ma administration only likes window dressing and not actually looking at the inequities created by the present system - and is acually only further exacerbating it.
Actually, the proposal was for Yunlin/Chiayi
They weren’t going to win in Kaohsiung City anytime in the near future. THe KMT reached its high water mark over the past couple of years and they still couldn’t wrest it from the DPP.
Of course, you have no problem with extending the term by one year AFTER the election four years ago - without any consulting from the voters. They ran for a four year term, not a five year term. Then, to change the rules of hte game six months before the scheduled election - this is against the spirit of regular democratic elections.
No, why can’t they have elections at the same time as the rest of the country? Here in Taichung, we already had good candidates from both parties preparing to run. We would have had a really good race down here. How, politicians who had been preparing for a race in Taichung had the race pulled out from under them. This is the type of behavior that happens in a one-party state, not in a genuine democratic republic.
As for reorganization, I would like so see something along these lines:
- Merge Keelong City with Taipei County
- Taipei City
- Taoyuan County
- Merge Hsinchu county and city
- Miaoli county merged either with Hsinchu or Taichung (or parts merged with both)
- Taichung County/City with Caotun township in Nantou County
- Merge Changhua with Yunlin with Nantou City in Nantou County
- Merge Chiayi City and County
- Merge Tainan city/county
- Merge Kaohsiung City/county
- Merge Pingtung and Taidong Counties
- Merge Ilan and Hualien counties
- Take aboriginal townships in Nantou, Taichung, Hsinchu, Tainan, etc. and make them into an autonomous region
- Penghu as is
- Merge the islands offshore that are formally part of Fujian Province into a single county.
Wouldn’t this make much more sense than the ad hoc process that is going on now?
[quote=“Mawvellous”][quote=“cfimages”]
Actually Zhanghua’s case is not so out there. Yuanlin (the town in Zhanghua not the county, Yunlin) is the biggest town in Taiwan and is not that far short of having the population numbers to become a city on its own - it has almost as many as both Hualian and Taidong. It’d make more sense to merge it with Zhanghua city though - together they’d be about the same as Hsinchu (Xinzhu) (Xinzhu).[/quote]
Well on that basis KMT Taoyuan also had a very good case.
The point is that Taipei, Taizhong, and Gaoxiong are the three major cities in Taiwan, and all have been upgraded.
Just behind, decision deferred is Tainan, which deserves consideration for its cultural significance.
In the next tier are places like Taoyuan and Xinzhu (KMT) or Zhanghua (DPP) which do not meet the requirements for upgrading.
Population figures here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ta … population
All seems quite fair to me (I thought this was DPP policy anyway).[/quote]
I think I misunderstood - I thought it was upgrading counties to city status. My bad.
Also, Zhanghua voted KMT last election.
[quote=“ludahai”][quote=“cfimages”]
Actually Zhanghua’s case is not so out there. Yuanlin (the town in Zhanghua not the county, Yunlin) is the biggest town in Taiwan and is not that far short of having the population numbers to become a city on its own - it has almost as many as both Hualian and Taidong. It’d make more sense to merge it with Zhanghua city though - together they’d be about the same as Hsinchu (Xinzhu) (Xinzhu).[/quote]
FYI - Changhua city is a part of Changhua county.[/quote]
Yes I’m fully aware of that, although it’s a separate govt for the city.
And you conveniently forget Taoyuan county, population by far the highest of those rejected for upgrade, solid KMT, mayor Zhu Lilun, senior KMT figure.
Maybe there is a good argument for it, but could any administration push it through? As it is Ma ran on a policy of “three cities, 15 counties”-apart from the fact that Taipei City and County have not yet been merged, this is exactly what happens. I also thought “upgrades” were DPP policy.
Do you have any better solutions? If the election is this year, then they next mayor would have to serve a longer term. These kinds of things happen in democracies all the time.
Even more ridiculous then.
[quote]They weren’t going to win in Kaohsiung City anytime in the near future. THe KMT reached its high water mark over the past couple of years and they still couldn’t wrest it from the DPP.
[/quote]
So now we have:
Taipei City: Solid Blue
Taipei County, Taizhong: Could go either way
Gaoxiong: Solid Green
But then the next term would be one year longer, municipal and county election dates are different.
[quote]As for reorganization, I would like so see something along these lines:
- Merge Keelong (Jilong) City with Taipei County
- Taipei City
- Taoyuan County
- Merge Hsinchu (Xinzhu) county and city
- Miaoli county merged either with Hsinchu (Xinzhu) or Taichung (or parts merged with both)
- Taichung County/City with Caotun township in Nantou County
- Merge Changhua with Yunlin with Nantou City in Nantou County
- Merge Jiayi City and County
- Merge Tainan city/county
- Merge Kaohsiung City/county
- Merge Pingdong and Taidong Counties
- Merge Yilan and Hualian counties
- Take aboriginal townships in Nantou, Taichung, Hsinchu (Xinzhu), Tainan, etc. and make them into an autonomous region
- Penghu as is
- Merge the islands offshore that are formally part of Fujian Province into a single county.
Wouldn’t this make much more sense than the ad hoc process that is going on now?[/quote]
Why? Because you think it looks better? I can’t see how it is any more logical that the present system.
This kind of reorganization is very difficult to push through. It involves the redistribution of resources, and some people may even loose their positions if governments are merged. People are likely to get upset whatever you do.
As far as I can see, the current arrangement will ensure that there is a more equitable distribution of resources between the three major cities in Taiwan.
As for the rural areas, there are definitely major problems. They have basically been neglected for far too long in the rush to industrialization and urbanization. That was part of the cost of the “economic miracle”. I know some people are also very concerned about a new law regarding rural development that is being pushed through. Will this reorganization mean less money for rural areas? I don’t know-do you have any forecasts?
Just as Wu Den-yih most likely lost to Frank Hsieh after “someone” gave the media fake tapes alleging Wu was having an affair, Kaohsiung was just a few votes away from electing another KMT mayor in the last election. If Chen Chu’s camp hadn’t aired all of those media spots on the last day before the elections and on election day, Huang could very well have been elected. I don’t know why that would constitute a watermark for the KMT. Kaohsiung County is home to a lot of the military institutions and is similarly likely to be balanced between DPP and KMT, with (I think?) a majority of KMT county councilors.
Su could still run against Chou or whomever the KMT chooses to run for Xinbei City mayor, but he would have to put aside aspirations of running for president in 2012, which he probably doesn’t want to do. I don’t know who in the DPP has even half the chance that Su would, though. The KMT is keeping Jason Hu in Taichung because he’ll do less harm there than as premier, which is the spot he has his eye on, and hoping he’ll retire. I personally hope that he gets out of the way and lets someone younger and more competent run the place, as I think it has tremendous potential that has largely been squandered over the years under administrations from both parties.
I don’t see the big deal, aside from sour grapes, in all this. The three biggest city/county areas in Taiwan met the population requirements for the change in status. Otherwise, only Taoyuan was even close, population-wise. Ma’s plan is to incorporate Keelung City with Taipei City and the newly formed Xinbei City eventually, I think. I doubt the KMT would be ill-advised enough to nominate Chou for the head of Greater Taipei, which is going to be a very powerful position. I expect Zhu Li-lun will most likely go for that one.
Yes, the administration has often voiced support for unification, er, merging. But I don’t understand why that would be a good thing – at least for the area formerly known as Taipei County, which has historically gotten screwed while largess rained upon the city of Taipei. And with the city and county under the same administration, it seems that any benefits that the county gained from its recent upgrade will be lost and then some, with money once again disproportionately going to Xinyi, etc.
There are good reasons for having adminstrative districts that more or less match distinct population and geographical areas. If these mergers are such a great thing, why not make all of Taiwan one big city, administratively speaking. Really, I don’t understand it.
Also, as a separate matter, what is to become of Banqiao, Xindian, etc.? Have they just been downgraded from cities to districts? And the townships, are they about to become neighborhoods?
I assume cities would become districts, but I could be wrong. I think one of the main reasons behind the plan is so that Taipei can have its own harbor, i.e. Keelung, as I doubt the new Taipei Port in Bali is going to handle much more than cargo shipping, whereas Keelung is more central, already has transportation links, is populated and slated to be adjusted more towards a mix of freight and tourism shipping.
Oh, man. Just think of all of the signs, letterhead, business cards, etc. that are going to have to be changed. In the romanization wars at least some places were left unchanged.
Hmmm, they will probably need someone to consult on the proper Hanyu Pinyin spelling of all those new addresses and place names, someone with a background in editing and an all-encompassing knowledge of the system, who has worked with government agencies before. Sounds like a job for Cranky Laowai to me! Think about it: every address and street name in the three largest cities on the island, all with correct Hanyu Pinyin signage across the board.
This is a very good thread, in my opinion, because it’s showing me how much I don’t know about Taiwan.
This is a very good thread, in my opinion, because it’s showing me how much I don’t care about Taiwan.
This is a very good thread, in my opinion, because it’s showing me how much I don’t care about Taiwan.[/quote] But that’s understandable: you’ve been here since the Sino-French War.
This is a very good thread, in my opinion, because it’s showing me how much I don’t care about Taiwan.[/quote]
This is a very good thread, in my opinion, because it’s showing me how much of a waste of energy caring about Taiwan really is. (Unless you’re making good money out of it of course.)
This is a very good thread, in my opinion, because it’s showing me how much I don’t care about Taiwan.[/quote] But that’s understandable: you’ve been here since the Sino-French War.[/quote]
The French and the Chinese went to war in 1611? I couldn’t find that in Wikipedia anywhere.