Leftie Activists Make Huge Profits

I agree with fred re welfare.

I think welfare or other assistance is OK for those who truly need it.

But, I believe the Democratic Party has used welfare primarily as a means of securing votes for its candidates… and I find that absolutely repulsive. To keep a class of people down and utterly dependent upon the government for several generations simply so that it (the Democratic Party) could rely on votes from that underprivileged class is evil and it goes against every notion of the proper relationship between citizens and their government in which our founding fathers believed.

Goodness, Fred, I’ve never seen an argument prosecuted so poorly. I thought you were an intellectual. Please, give us some hard data, rather than just say “lefties are against profit”.

I’m sure you agree that there are posters on this board who disagree with you that still deserve an adult response. Having a different point of view from “Fred Smith” does not make one’ opinion invalid.

On another note, I agree that some of the guest speaker rates are enormous. I’ll bet Michael Jordan charges a lot also. Damned athletes! Whatever happened to “for the love of the game”?

You’ve got to be kidding. You seriously need me to go through and get quotes to prove that the Left regularly makes comments that are anti-profit in nature? Are you serious?!!

Let me start with the basics just so we understand each other?

Are you familiar with any of the following:

communism?
socialism?
welfare?
statism?

What are their central tenets and what do they espouse?

Then, can we say that Leftists or rightists are more likely to support the above?

On the other hand, would you tend to associate strong Republican icons like Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman, Margaret Thatcher with any of the above?

Looking at the US Congress or British Parliament, which side left or right would tend to disparage the profit motive and attribute success in life to societal factors rather than personal initiative?

So my point is for Lefties to ascribe to these views means that they should be against profit motives since they result in the biggest bane to Leftie existences… INEQUALITY.

So sorry, I am not going to go through and hunt down specific quotes from these people. They describe themselves as Leftists. What does that entail? Either they are too stupid to know or the comparison given in the above posts is valid. If you disagree, you prove to me how it is not.

[quote=“fred smith”]You’ve got to be kidding. You seriously need me to go through and get quotes to prove that the Left regularly makes comments that are anti-profit in nature? Are you serious?!!

Let me start with the basics just so we understand each other?

Are you familiar with any of the following:

communism?
socialism?
welfare?
statism?

What are their central tenets and what do they espouse?

Then, can we say that Leftists or rightists are more likely to support the above?

On the other hand, would you tend to associate strong Republican icons like Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman, Margaret Thatcher with any of the above?

Looking at the US Congress or British Parliament, which side left or right would tend to disparage the profit motive and attribute success in life to societal factors rather than personal initiative?

So my point is for Lefties to ascribe to these views means that they should be against profit motives since they result in the biggest bane to Leftie existences… INEQUALITY.

So sorry, I am not going to go through and hunt down specific quotes from these people. They describe themselves as Leftists. What does that entail? Either they are too stupid to know or the comparison given in the above posts is valid. If you disagree, you prove to me how it is not.[/quote]
What is a “leftie”? A liberal? Then I’m a leftie, I guess. I’m a Liberal (used to be card-carrying) and I own a small business. You won’t find a more voracious defender of capitalism than a small-business owner.

Ah but you are not a leftie running a small business in a leftie dominated economy or environment are you. Try opening a business akin to the one you have here in Canada. You just have not had your views truly put to the test OR you do not understand what your true views are nor do you understand the consquences of espousing said policies.

Try opening that school back in Canada. Can you imagine the kinds of regulations that you would face, especially involving children, food inspection, etc. plus the taxes you would pay after your initial investment and then when you start to make profits see 50 percent taxed away to leave you to slave away while someone who takes no initiative sits at home drinking beer and watching TV all while their arteries harden and then you will have to wait in line at the clinic while they and their ilk sail through before you? Surely, you want to take back some of your above comments? Reconsider?

[quote=“fred smith”]Ah but you are not a leftie running a small business in a leftie dominated economy or environment are you. Try opening a business akin to the one you have here in Canada. You just have not had your views truly put to the test OR you do not understand what your true views are nor do you understand the consquences of espousing said policies.[/quote]So someone with different views is stupid or niave ? How very open-minded of you Fred.

[quote]Try opening that school back in Canada. Can you imagine the kinds of regulations that you would face, especially involving children, food inspection, etc.[/quote]Making sure children are safe ? What’s wrong with that ?

[quote]plus the taxes you would pay after your initial investment and then when you start to make profits see 50 percent taxed away to leave you to slave away while someone who takes no initiative sits at home drinking beer and watching TV all while their arteries harden and then you will have to wait in line at the clinic while they and their ilk sail through before you? Surely, you want to take back some of your above comments? Reconsider?[/quote]The unemployed don’t deserve health care ? Or maybe you don’t consider them human to ease your concience ? You also give me the impression that the unemployed don’t want to work, did I misunderstand that ?

BFM:

??? Where did I make any of the statement that you claim I did? and where are you coming from??? By they way, since you have the audacity to disagree with me you are stupid and a big wally.

[quote=“fred smith”]Ah but you are not a leftie running a small business in a leftie dominated economy or environment are you. Try opening a business akin to the one you have here in Canada. You just have not had your views truly put to the test OR you do not understand what your true views are nor do you understand the consquences of espousing said policies.

Try opening that school back in Canada. Can you imagine the kinds of regulations that you would face, especially involving children, food inspection, etc. plus the taxes you would pay after your initial investment and then when you start to make profits see 50 percent taxed away to leave you to slave away while someone who takes no initiative sits at home drinking beer and watching TV all while their arteries harden and then you will have to wait in line at the clinic while they and their ilk sail through before you? Surely, you want to take back some of your above comments? Reconsider?[/quote]
I love regulations - they promote quality. And I always pay my taxes, even though I may grumble about it. I would move back to Canada in a heartbeat if I could. I became a liberal because I liked how Canada deals with social issues. Even our Conservative party is “leftier” than yours! :smiley: Now, Canada isn’t perfect. Like any nations, America included, we have issues with health care and welfare. But I don’t want this to become a Canada vs. America debate. Such a debate would only make us both look like fools. You implied that lefties shouldn’t care about profit. Apart from Marxists, I would disagree. We just have different visions when it comes to social responsiblilty. We still want to make a profit - who doesn’t?

Fine Maoman.

I will leave it at that. If that is what you truly believe then… what can I say…

[quote=“fred smith”]Fine Maoman.

I will leave it at that. If that is what you truly believe then… what can I say…[/quote]Yo Maoman, yo da man :notworthy: Only yesterday someone said you should come in here and knock some sense into these people. :beer:
Can I take some credit for shutting Fred Smith up, can I can I ? Awww go on, pleeeeease ?

I’m against shutting people up.

I’m against shutting people up.[/quote]I didn’t mean to, I didn’t know asking questions like “Why is helping and protecting the innocent bad ? Why is equality is bad ?” were against the rules, I’m sorry :notworthy:

:wink: ← a smiley

It would appear fred that you can say nothing to show any real understanding of the ideals of the left. You probably got your understanding for left leaning politics from a McCarthy pop up book. America’s war on welfare and declining unemployment levels have happened at the sametime as a massive increase in the penal population (they are not counted in unemployment stats). Maybe it is against your principles to think in depth about things like welfare, free healthcare, statesponsored education, secure pension provision etc are. Your overwelming desire to look to the right fails (as do unimaginative leftists) to allow you to think creatively to produce the most efficient country.

Thinking about reagan and thatcher… monatarism anyone. What a great success that was.

[quote]then you will have to wait in line at the clinic while they and their ilk sail through before you[/quote] what the f… one suspects the onset of paranoia.

[quote]success in life to societal factors rather than personal initiative[/quote] yeah because W got where he is on his genius, drive and initiative, nothing to do with having every failing company he was involved in bailed out by one of daddy’s big connections.

Most lefties want to see everybody able to use there initiative, by giving everbody an equal chance. Unfortunately to do that you have to redistribute a little. Most righties are either militaristic nuts or have climbed the ladder and want to pull the ladder up from the rest.

BTW are you going to respond to BFMs point about the safety of school kids?

I’m against shutting people up.[/quote]I didn’t mean to, I didn’t know asking questions like “Why is helping and protecting the innocent bad ? Why is equality is bad ?” were against the rules, I’m sorry :notworthy:

:wink: ← a smiley[/quote]

No, those questions are not bad.

And I’m a little fuzzy on the rules too.

Look, its too easy to see where the talking past each other took place in the exchange between FS and Maoman.

Of course liberal small business owners want to make a profit. That is part of FS’s point.

And fs is correct too that liberals tend to favor more rules. I, unlike Maoman, actually did try to run a small business back home in a heavily liberal governed environment… and it ain’t no picnic.

Yes, we should look after legitimate needs of society’s less fortunate.

But the debate centers on the issues of how much is enough and what care is reasonable. Liberals tend to favor more rules and bigger government interference and or regulation while conservatives tend to favor minimal government interference.

When I went before the liberal Democratic party-controlled zoning board in the City of Pittsburgh for a permit to open a law office on the first floor of my home (which had previously been used as an MD’s office and which was legal under Pittsburgh regulations), I was forced to comply with such inane rules as what hours my office would be open (9:00 to 5:00 was acceptable but not 10:00 to 4:00) and how much floor space would I utilize (I was not permitted to utilize the back room) and what type of a sign I could place on my door (I was not permitted to indicate my business hours, despite the fact that the board took such an intense interest in the same)…

These types of regulations are, IMO, a product of too much interference by government. Maddening.

Sigh… Just cannot escape these mindless arguments.

Where to begin…?

First of all, regulations such as Maoman describes would probably result in his school here in Taiwan being shut down due to inadequate safety codes, food hygiene requirements, transportation etc. etc.

Also, does Maoman have a special degree in education or child psychology. If not, he might find that he is not qualified for the work that he is apparently so proud of in Taiwan.

Then, there would be the whole need to teach French as well as English despite any lack of interest in what the students want. Or in the United States, numerous courses on diversity and multiculturalism that would be required curriculum. Does Maoman currently choose his own curriculum.

Finally, if Maoman had a teacher who was repeatedly late and drunk etc. he would not necessarily be able to fire said teacher since the unions would be involved and he might be obligated to pay for treatment etc. while the teacher was NOT working and would need to save that position open for him or her upon their return.

These are just some of the many numerous examples that I saw personally while working in public relations at the St. Paul Public Schools and so I seriously would have to question Maoman’s lofty claims of enlightened civic mindedness. The reason I backed out of the debate is because from the few comments that Maoman made, I would really have to wonder if he ever had any exposure to any of these things in Canada at all.

His knowledge of political theory leftist or otherwise is also apparently lacking so it’s Friday. Do I launch into a huge effort to point out the fallacies of his positions or just let this one lie and run away to drink and feast when the bell rings today? I think the latter.

Side note to BFM: Yes, you can take credit for shutting me up. At least with Maoman, I would know where to begin but with your posts… buy a comic book. You would probably find it more amusing if not intellectually stimulating.

As to BB’s comments, you are making emotional irrational statements that draw implications from my statements that do not accurately reflect my stance or argument. But how you do remind me of Alien. :lovestruck: :lovestruck: :lovestruck: with her oh yeah? Well what about this then? Oh yeah, well don’t tell me that then. I wonder if Alien has really left or if she is still posting under a new avatar? One of her many? Alien? Is that you?

[quote=“fred smith”]First of all, regulations such as Maoman describes would probably result in his school here in Taiwan being shut down due to inadequate safety codes, food hygiene requirements, transportation etc. etc.

Also, does Maoman have a special degree in education or child psychology. If not, he might find that he is not qualified for the work that he is apparently so proud of in Taiwan.[/quote]
You’re right. And I would have to get my building rewired, make hadicapped-accessible washrooms, and get double pane windows. SO what? That’s there, this is here. There are different regulations and laws between provinces and even municipalities in Canada. I believe they should be adhered to. Of course there will always be some silly rules and laws, but again, that happens in every country. What’s your point?

My point Maoman is that you would not have the job you do back in Canada. My point Maoman is that you would not be profitable if you were running your business in Canada. My point is that you would not have your business at all. So talk is cheap but talk to people in the industry. Your lighthearted, doesn’t bother me, I am willing to support our children’s well being etc. would not doubt be found highly amusing by those actually in the profession. But live in your little world of fantasy all while you DO NOT pay high taxes, are NOT obligated to deal with numerous rules and regulations and ARE profitable. It’s easy to say all of this now but what if you REALLY DID HAVE to comply with all of the above?

But like I said, your call. It’s Friday and unless you say something truly shocking, I am out of this debate. I actually worked in the industry and saw what was going on. But hey, when you get your master’s in education and child psychology which will be necessary to get you certified and then wait for three years for an opening while substituting in the mean time, let me know. I will value your opinion all the more since it will be based IN REALITY.

Love and oh yes peace
Fred

[quote=“tigerman”]Of course liberal small business owners want to make a profit. That is part of FS’s point.

And fs is correct too that liberals tend to favor more rules. I, unlike Maoman, actually did try to run a small business back home in a heavily liberal governed environment… and it ain’t no picnic.

Yes, we should look after legitimate needs of society’s less fortunate.

But the debate centers on the issues of how much is enough and what care is reasonable. Liberals tend to favor more rules and bigger government interference and or regulation while conservatives tend to favor minimal government interference.[/quote]
So basically we all agree. The difference is in degrees. ANd hoe many of us can agree on that? I doubt that the exact degree of social, fiscal, whatever, responsibility is unanimous among liberals or conservatives. We’d be splitting hairs. We all agree that taxes are necessary - but where do we draw the line. We all agree that the military needs to look beyond its own borders when assessing national security? But where do we draw the line? We also agree that rules and regulations make society better - but how much is too much? Massachusetts? Canada? Sweden? North Korea? Absolute statements don’t help anyone understand the situation better.

Of course not, silly! Who wants to study English in a buxiban in Waterloo, Ontario? What’s a buxiban? I’d probably do something else. WHo know, maybe I would have a chain of Blockbuster video stores, maybe I would have gone on to grad school. Who knows? But you’re right, I defintely wouldn’t be running a language school of any kind. Not only is there no market for it, I am also not qualified under Canada’s laws and regulations. No doubt about that.

Dude, there are numerous rules and regulations involved in opening a buxiban in Taipei CIty. I got burned to the tune of almost 250k last summer when some VERY obscure zoning regulations got my first location pulled out from under my feet. :s Ask some of the other buxiban/anqinban owners about setting up a language school here. It’s not as easy as it might seem.

[quote]Ah but you are not a leftie running a small business in a leftie dominated economy or environment are you. Try opening a business akin to the one you have here in Canada. You just have not had your views truly put to the test OR you do not understand what your true views are nor do you understand the consquences of espousing said policies.

Try opening that school back in Canada. Can you imagine the kinds of regulations that you would face, especially involving children, food inspection, etc. plus the taxes you would pay after your initial investment and then when you start to make profits see 50 percent taxed away to leave you to slave away while someone who takes no initiative sits at home drinking beer and watching TV all while their arteries harden and then you will have to wait in line at the clinic while they and their ilk sail through before you? Surely, you want to take back some of your above comments? Reconsider?[/quote]

I address this to Maoman, not Fred. Fred is a troll and won’t respond to facts.

The OECD has declared Canada one of the best places to start a new business. One of the least regulated and now enjoying one of the lowest business tax rates. If the liberals get in again then business taxes will be significantly lower than in the US. In any case, they are only maginally higher now.

As for starting a school: a friend works at a large ESL school in Vancouver started by a Korean immigrant who was a pharmacist. No one teaches french or any other language except English. There is no union there or at any other language school in the city. Teachers get fired all the time.

Maoman, you would most certainly be able to start a similar school to the one he has now. You would certainly not be paying 50% taxes. Nor would you be waiting in line at a health clinic while welfare recipients went before you (WTF kind of right-wing nightmare did that line come from?) Fred is a moron, a troll, and a major ignoramous. I have made many of these points in other threads. He chooses to forgot or simply ignore them when the facts are brought it. Instead he greases a cowardly exit only to reappear in a new thread making the same nonsensical points.

Let’s look at the logic of this thread. Ever hear of a tautology Fred? Socialists and communists shouldn’t hunger after profit. No fucking kidding. If you’re going to define the left so narrowly though there was no reason to start this thread.

Why doesn’t Fred bash the Christian right for their support of Star Wars, or business in general? “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven.” Guess some of them forgot about that. But Fred wouldn’t dare be consistent in his moral outrage because then he’d be attacking Republicans.

Fred is a typer not a thinker.