Problem is, you guys don’t understand Taiwanese culture.
Is the situation in Taiwan really worse than in Thailand, SK, Japan or China…?
Just look at the comments on this board about “how Taiwanese this…how Taiwanese that”, I would say it is not any better on the other side of the coin.
Want to find the proof? Just read through the threads in this board and you will find endless stereotyping, negative comments on Taiwanese as a group (or should I say racist?) and superiority shown by “Foreigners VS. Locals” which I have no idea where it should come from.
Appreciate the land and the country that you are living in and don’t be a “foreigner” forever.[/quote]
What foreigners post in SE Asia and E Asia forum daily is far, far more offensive than innocuous news stories about foreigners, or the general attitude of locals toward foreigners.
Is the situation in Taiwan really worse than in Thailand, SK, Japan or China…?[/quote]
No. South Korea is worse. SK people often actually HATE Americans, for example, and talk about bombing the US, putting Americans in work camps, calling them sub-human, etc. Some non-mainstream news rags publish this sort of sentiment too.
In China the state controls what’s published but there’s a lot more international xenophobia than internal. In Japan, oh come on, they love foreigners but hate having foreigners take their jobs and women. It’s more or less just like Taiwan. Taiwan is quite nice to foreigners if you do an honest comparison with other countries.
Well since you mention it, comparing Taiwan to Australia, I’d say that it seems that the more you try to adopt the local lifestyle and customs, the more you are welcomed.
Take, for example, the case of Majak Daw, the refugee from Sudan now playing Australian Rules football for North Melbourne. Australians (those in the football-playing states, at least) love him. Why? Because he plays “our game” (pretty bloody well, I might add.)
Hell, half of Australia would probably have taken a shine to Bin Laden if he’d released a video of himself kicking a Sherrin around with a few of his mates.
In Taiwan, you don’t have to chew binlang and drive as if you have no respect for the safety of others, but I would say that a vocabulary of a few hundred Taiwanese words makes people warmly welcome you. It shows you value something quintessentially Taiwanese. You can probably cross the most bad-ass tattooed gangster, but get away with it by speaking Taiwanese (not a theory that I have tested, BTW.)
I think every country is similar to some degree - the locals love it when you do something that shows you are like them. (But I haven’t been to Korea.)
[quote=“mike029”]http://english.trtc.com.tw/ct.asp?xItem=1903349&ctNode=11752&mp=122032
Found this by accident just now.[/quote]
I hadn’t realised that it was a problem when I screamed suddenly in order to frighten the other passengers. Guess that I’d best stop doing it.
[quote=“BP1978”]Just look at the comments on this board about “how Taiwanese this…how Taiwanese that”, I would say it is not any better on the other side of the coin.
Want to find the proof? Just read through the threads in this board and you will find endless stereotyping, negative comments on Taiwanese as a group (or should I say racist?) and superiority shown by “Foreigners VS. Locals” which I have no idea where it should come from.[/quote]
Completely agree.
But steady on now, that’s kind of tough when our educated friend Miss Wang comes out with ‘you’re a guest in our country’ crap like this: 「不管他在自己的國家有多麼自由，但是今天你來到別人國家，就是該尊重別人的規定和習慣。」
I would LOVE to see the reaction that statement would get directed at a noisy Chinese kid in LA.
Thing is, these things are written BY monobrows FOR monobrows ABOUT monobrows. Its just chavs being chavs. The great hairy unwashed. Or hairless, in the case of Taiwan. Apart from the women’s pubic areas, apparently (thanks, Forumosa! You actually taught me something!). Chavtastic!
Come to that, it’s not even their country. It belongs to the Aboriginals. Their just immigrants or the descendents of immigrants like the rest of us. But that would never occur to them through the fog of xenophobia and racism that clouds their perception of the world.
Note: “They” being a very specific group who comes up with this bollocks.
I heard something interesting today on ICRT (ironically this is a believe it or not post but not for that reason). There is an NGO in Australia that has a Peace index. Taiwan proudly announced that it was number 27 out of the top 30. Its point of pride was making it into the top 30. At the top of the list was New Zealand and some genuinely peaceful country. Australia was well near the top too, which I found also strange considering one of the criteria was the degree of violent crime. I think Australia and New Zealand have an in-proportionate amount of violent street crime and there is basically none here. I’m sure the amount of people in Australia and New Zealand charged with ‘Disturbing the Peace’ is way in excess of what you will find in Taiwan.
Attention all misanthropes: I’m sure but I don’t know.
[quote=“mike029”]http://english.trtc.com.tw/ct.asp?xItem=1903349&ctNode=11752&mp=122032
Found this by accident just now.[/quote]
Is this what they’re talking about?
[quote=“Charlie Jack”][quote=“mike029”]http://english.trtc.com.tw/ct.asp?xItem=1903349&ctNode=11752&mp=122032
Found this by accident just now.[/quote]
Is this what they’re talking about?
[/quote]
My favorite part: 原來他是外國人！！ Of course!
Also, there appears to be nobody on the train, so what if the guy is taking up a few seats. I’ve seen plenty of old Taiwanese people take up another seat with their purse, and not let anyone sit there.
I think what’s interesting to note here is that in both cases (the ‘news’ on the MRT site and the tv ‘news’) is that they never refer to passengers as people. They always refer to them as ‘foreigners’. If anyone in a Western country ever referred to someone by their ethnic group or race, even for something as harmless as identifying the person in a crowd, all hell would break loose. I don’t understand why we as a community accept this treatment. We need to team up with the 外勞 to be a little bit more angry about this. 
I’m surprised this one didn’t make the news. Oh wait, that’s because it’s a Taiwanese person and not a crazy drunk big nose.
Edit: It seems as if in the last 10 seconds since I added this video it was removed…anyway it was a xiongdi on a train going towards zhongli swearing insanely at some guy while he smokes on the train. Then he calls his buddies to tell him to meet him at the train station to beat up the guy on the train, and describes him to them.
Mainstream (I assume) news reports such as this are certainly NOT a sign that Taiwan is moving in the right direction. I feel sorry for all you guys and gals that have to live there. And even more sorry for my little boy who has to grow up there. I wonder how a mixed-race person would be viewed in such a situation- as a foreigner or a Taiwanese person ? …
Taiwan aint perfect but its home to me. And its better then it was overall. Progress is being made. I never felt deprived because I grew up there. Quite the contrary.
Id do it all over again. (id only change the girls tho)
[quote=“tommy525”]Taiwan aint perfect but its home to me. And its better then it was overall. Progress is being made. I never felt deprived because I grew up there. Quite the contrary.
Id do it all over again. (id only change the girls tho)[/quote]
Well maybe I should rephrase myself, because I wasn’t in Taiwan 10 + years ago so I have no way of knowing if it’s improved since then, by all accounts it has in many ways. I should say, it isn’t in the kind of place it should be, for a modern, industrialised democracy. Sure there are good reasons why it is so backward in many respects, not least of all its diplomatic isolation.
However, Taiwan as a country promotes the learning of English more than most (how effectively it does so is a different matter). It obviously aspires to be part of the international community. It’s hardly a North Korea. Foreign businesses have branches in Taiwan, foreign businessmen and women are based in Taiwan and visit there on business. Foreigners are free to come and visit Taiwan for tourism purposes and travel. Yet there persists such a parochial attitude amongst people there, even those in Taipei.
It’s time for Taiwan to stop making excuses and step up to the plate. The change needs to come from within, by education from an early age. It’s no use us foreigners having a rant at people who call us “waiguoren” or whatever, because until Taiwan’s basic perception of foreigners and the world as a whole changes fundamentally, no-one will actually listen to us. The change needs to come from the top,the politicians. Ma would be the ideal person to help sow these seeds of change. He did live abroad for a long time after all. Even if half of the population hate him, the other half who support him will listen.
Taiwan, La Ilha Formosa, could be so much more than it is. Let’s hope and pray that this change comes sooner rather than later.
And it takes the foreigners in Taiwan to speak up to action to be taken. If you feel something is unjust , speak up. (not directed at you pgdaddy because you DO speak up).
I really don’t think that will make a difference. I mean,there’s a difference between speaking up here on Forumosa where the audience is predominantly other foreigners, and speaking up on the street. Usually the frustration that foreigners feel about being referred to very pointedly and obviously as a waiguoren, laowai or whatever comes out in a rather uncalm or emotional manner, which just doesn’t work with Taiwanese.
Foreigners are not expected to be emotional, if they do get emotional on occasions then they are described as “angry”. I am a peaceful and non-aggressive person but was described by my ex as hen rongyi shengqi which I just couldn’t understand. I guess that she was referring to the times when I became frustrated with the fact that people would treat me as a waiguoren rather than just another human being. The problem in Taiwan is that there are a lot of sentiments that foreigners feel that can’t be expressed in the way that they might do in their home country, because they aren’t allowed to communicate them, and therefore come out as frustration.
Anyway, as long as you foreigners are viewed as being as essentially from a different planet to the Taiwanese, there is no point you expressing your feelings and emotions in public. The locals will just laugh, and you won’t feel any better. That’s why, as I see it, the foreigners that manage to stay in Taiwan and find happiness and peace are those that learn how to block out the frustrations of everyday life. Life is so much less stressful if you bury your head in the sand, man.
True and genuine change must come from within, e.g. the Arab Spring.
Most of the discrimination (for want of a better word) towards foreigners actually benefits the foreigner. I don’t see people complaining that their salaries are double the average TW salary, or any of the myriad other ways we benefit by being different. Can’t really complain too much are the negatives especially as they generally occur less frequently.