Let's talk about Trump

Any more wonder why the only plank in the Republican platform that Trump’s team was anxious to change was the one saying America backed Ukraine?

Handwritten ledgers show $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments designated for Mr. Manafor t [Trump’s campaign manager] from Mr. Yanukovych’s pro-Russian political party from 2007 to 2012, according to Ukraine’s newly formed National Anti-Corruption Bureau. Investigators assert that the disbursements were part of an illegal off-the-books system whose recipients also included election officials.

In addition, criminal prosecutors are investigating a group of offshore shell companies that helped members of Mr. Yanukovych’s inner circle finance their lavish lifestyles, including a palatial presidential residence with a private zoo, golf course and tennis court. Among the hundreds of murky transactions these companies engaged in was an $18 million deal to sell Ukrainian cable television assets to a partnership put together by Mr. Manafort and a Russian oligarch, Oleg Deripaska, a close ally of President Vladimir V. Putin

Though I shouldn’t say that’s the only reason. Since no American bank will give him a loan because he’s too crooked, the tax returns he refuses to let the public see probably show how deeply in debt he is to the Russian mob and how much he’s under Putin’s thumb.

Trump should release his tax returns, but only after Hillary releases 1) a list of her foreign donors, 2) a medical report.

I never thought Trump wanted really to become president, so this makes perfect sense to me:

(Huff Post)

"Donald Trump never actually wanted to be president of the United States. I know this for a fact. I’m not going to say how I know it. I’m not saying that Trump and I shared the same agent or lawyer or stylist or, if we did, that that would have anything to do with anything. And I’m certainly not saying that I ever overheard anything at those agencies or in the hallways of NBC or anywhere else. But there are certain people reading this right now, they know who they are, and they know that every word in the following paragraphs actually happened.

Trump was unhappy with his deal as host and star of his hit NBC show, “The Apprentice” (and “The Celebrity Apprentice”). Simply put, he wanted more money. He had floated the idea before of possibly running for president in the hopes that the attention from that would make his negotiating position stronger. But he knew, as the self-proclaimed king of the dealmakers, that saying you’re going to do something is bupkus — DOING it is what makes the bastards sit up and pay attention.

Trump had begun talking to other networks about moving his show. This was another way to get leverage — the fear of losing him to someone else — and when he “quietly” met with the head of one of those networks, and word got around, his hand was strengthened. He knew then that it was time to play his Big Card.

He decided to run for president.

Of course he wouldn’t really have to RUN for president — just make the announcement, hold a few mega-rallies that would be packed with tens of thousands of fans, and wait for the first opinion polls to come in showing him — what else! — in first place! And then he would get whatever deal he wanted, worth millions more than what he was currently being paid.

So, on June 16 of last year, he rode down his golden escalator and opened his mouth. With no campaign staff, no 50-state campaign infrastructure — neither of which he needed because, remember, this wasn’t going to be a real campaign — and with no prepared script, he went off the rails at his kick-off press conference, calling Mexicans “rapists” and “drug dealers” and pledging to build a wall to keep them all out. Jaws in the room were agape. His comments were so offensive, NBC, far from offering him a bigger paycheck, immediately fired him with this terse statement: “Due to the recent derogatory statements by Donald Trump regarding immigrants, NBCUniversal is ending its business relationship with Mr. Trump.” NBC said it was also canceling the beauty pageants owned by Trump: Miss USA and Miss Universe. BOOM.

Trump was stunned. So much for the art of the deal. He never expected this, but he stuck to his plan anyway to increase his “value” in the eyes of the other networks by showing them how many millions of Americans wanted Him to be their Leader. He knew, of course (and the people he trusted also told him) that there was no way he was actually going to win many (if any) of the primaries, and he certainly would not become the Republican nominee, and NEVER would he EVER be the President of the United States. Of course not! Nor would he want to be! The job of being President is WORK and BORING and you have to live in the GHETTO of Washington, DC, in a SMALL 200-year old house that’s damp and dreary and has only TWO floors! A “second floor” is not a penthouse! But none of this was a worry, as “Trump for President” was only a ruse that was going to last a few months.

And then something happened. And to be honest, if it happened to you, you might have reacted the same way. Trump, to his own surprise, ignited the country, especially among people who were the opposite of billionaires. He went straight to #1 in the polls of Republican voters. Up to 30,000 boisterous supporters started showing up to his rallies. TV ate it up. He became the first American celebrity to be able to book himself on any show he wanted to be on — and then NOT show up to the studio! From “Face the Nation” to “The Today Show” to Anderson Cooper, he was able to simply phone in and they’d put him on the air live. He could’ve been sitting on his golden toilet in Trump Tower for all we knew — and the media had no problem with any of that. In fact, CBS head Les Moonves famously admitted that Trump was very good for TV ratings and selling ads — music to the ears the NBC-spurned narcissist.

Trump fell in love with himself all over again, and he soon forgot his mission to get a good deal for a TV show. A TV show? Are you kldding — that’s for losers like Chris Harrison, whoever that is (host of “The Bachelorette”). He was no longer king of the dealmakers — he was King of the World! His tiniest musings would be discussed and dissected everywhere by everybody for days, weeks, months! THAT never happened on “The Apprentice”! Host a TV show? He was the star of EVERY TV SHOW — and, soon, winning nearly every primary!

And then… you can see the moment it finally dawned on him… that “Oh shit!” revelation: “I’m actually going to be the Republican nominee — and my rich beautiful life is f#*@ing over!” It was the night he won the New Jersey primary. The headline on TIME.com was, “Donald Trump’s Subdued Victory Speech After Winning New Jersey.” Instead of it being one of his loud, brash speeches, it was downright depressing. No energy, no happiness, just the realization that now he was going to have to go through with this stunt that he started. It was no longer going to be performance art. He was going to have to go to work.

Soon, though, his karma caught up with him. Calling Mexicans “rapists” should have disqualified him on Day One (or for saying Obama wasn’t born here, as he did in 2011). No, it took 13 months of racist, sexist, stupid comments before he finally undid himself with the trifecta of attacking the family of a slain soldier, ridiculing the Purple Heart and suggesting that the pro-gun crowd assassinate Hillary Clinton. By this past weekend, the look on his face said it all — “I hate this! I want my show back!” But it was too late. He was damaged goods, his brand beyond repair, a worldwide laughing stock — and worse, a soon-to-be loser.

But, let me throw out another theory, one that assumes that Trump isn’t as dumb or crazy as he looks. Maybe the meltdown of the past three weeks was no accident. Maybe it’s all part of his new strategy to get the hell out of a race he never intended to see through to its end anyway. Because, unless he is just “crazy,” the only explanation for the unusual ramping up, day after day, of one disgustingly reckless statement after another is that he’s doing it consciously (or subconsciously) so that he’ll have to bow out or blame “others” for forcing him out. Many now are sensing the end game here because they know Trump seriously doesn’t want to do the actual job — and, most importantly, he cannot and WILL NOT suffer through being officially and legally declared a loser — LOSER! — on the night of November 8th.

Trust me, I’ve met the guy. Spent an afternoon with him. He would rather invite the Clintons AND the Obamas to his next wedding than have that scarlet letter (“L”) branded on his forehead seconds after the last polls have closed on that night, the evening of the final episode of the permanently cancelled Donald Trump Shit-Show."

I’m not feeling it :slight_smile:

Hillary has already listed all the donations to the Clinton Foundation; if you’re talking about the b.s.right-wing reports how about a deal?

Trump releases his tax reports; all donations he has received; health reports from an independent doctor- and Hillary does the same.

Now we all know Hell will freeze over before Pootie’s Poodle reveals how much he is in hock to the Russian mafia, so there’s not much for Clinton to reveal here,

Not sure if i posted this here before but the Clinton Foundations dealings are far lass transparent it would seem than you might imagine.

The foundation so it seems was never granted permission to raise money for anything other than a Clinton library. All those other donations it appears are illegal.

The foundation, or any charity should have independent audit every year, it seems the Clinton Foundation has never been audited.

There are so many vulnerable areas to attack Hillary right now it almost seems unfair. But regarding the Foundation, this is a good listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjxTHi7vh70

Looks like Trump is going to continue being Trump.

What an epic fuckup this whole thing really is for the Republicans. He’s not even trying.

If anything, he’s trying too hard. Two major policies speaches in two days, the last one an attempt to reach out to African Americans was received well by Republicans. DONALD J. TRUMP REMARKS ON CREATING A NEW AND BETTER FUTURE FOR AMERICA’S INNER CITIES

Trump is doing 2 rallies a day, 6 days a week in front of crowds up to 20k, while Clinton just pops her head out 3 times a week and usually for just one rally in front of a couple of hundred folks. Maybe she doesn’t even need to try, everyone else seems to do all her work for her and even if Trump wasn’t making any slips, the MSM would just make up some news and shove Mics in everyones faces. Exhausted” Hillary Clinton Taking Long Weekends Off

If he was just making policy speeches and not “just being Trump”, he wouldn’t be in this pickle. Being elected president is more complicated than appealing to his core group at rallies. There are a wide range of constituencies that will factor into the decision. If he can’t rally a wide range of people behind him, he can’t win. If he can’t avoid making various offensive comments, people won’t get behind him. A lot of people don’t want to be led by a buffoon. And they shouldn’t. If he can’t even avoid causing offense in the rarified air of a domestic election, when that’s obviously in his best interests, what’s going to happen when he has to participate in international politics? What does it say about his judgement when critical decisions might be needed? That’s my take on it anyway. I don’t know, maybe Trump is really some kind of political genius and knows better than all the Republican policy advisors. We’ll see in November.

Trump’s missteps are news because it’s important. As for Clinton, she’s a politician. She’s going to stay out of the way until she has to. I like that about Trump personally. But he blew the obvious opportunity to play this thing with more finesse, and he did it largely on his own. Maybe he’s just incapable of it, because that’s who he is. But there’s actually more at stake than just the presidential election.

I would have no problem with all of that. I doubt either is particularly clean, though I imagine that Clinton is far less clean (and healthy). I wouldn’t mind seeing those emails. They would stink to high Heaven.

Regardless of who becomes the next president, I think we’re in for a fun four years as the scales are finally lifted from a lot of people’s eyes about the political system over there.

It’s laughable that you think Trump would be worse for international relations given Hillary’s time as Secretary of State.

If I had to put money on who was more likely to start a war pretty much anywhere in the world in the next four years, it would be Hillary. She is by far the greater threat to world peace. I’m not saying that Trump wouldn’t start a war, merely that it’s almost a dead certainty that Hillary would. That the neocons are jumping ship to the Democrats speaks volumes. I do have to wonder though how many Nobel Peace Prizes she is going to get – probably at least two to signal how glad the global elite are that “literally Hitler” wasn’t elected – before she turns whole regions of the world into rubble.

Further to this, if I had to put money on who would be more likely to bail out Wall Street in the major global financial crisis that is highly likely to occur in the next term, again, I’d back Hillary. Campaign contributions from Wall Street would seem to back this up. Maybe she’ll get the Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences also. It’s going to be a lot of fun seeing lefties shill for the neocons and Wall Street over the next four years.

I think that it’s pretty certain that Hillary would make a major move against the First Amendment (the Second goes without saying).

Also, I think you’re getting it wrong with what the Republicans are thinking. Some rank and file (not all) genuinely want Trump to win. The establishment have no interest in him winning. They’ve always been about feathering their own nests as commentators, lobbyists, etc. Trump probably represents a threat to that, though who really knows.

A Trump loss in November would be fantastic for the GOPe because they could then say “we told you so” to the base and dine out for four years of a Hillary presidency. They’d all clutch the pearls and claim to be horrified at her running amok, but they’d be completely revitalised in 2020 to put their hands out again when they put up their latest cardboard cutout. Jeb Bush would have been absolutely destroyed by Hillary, but that didn’t matter to them, and it wouldn’t matter in 2020 if his equivalent got destroyed (which he surely would, whether against Hillary or any other Democrat). What would matter, however, is that enough people would be horrified enough by four years of Hillary that they would do whatever the GOPe asked of them (including reading their crappy National Review articles and donating to the party). There are going to be a LOT of happy Republicans if Trump loses.

It’s amazing to me how gullible people are in accepting the official narrative coming out of anyone in either Washington or the MSM. These are all deeply cynical, self-serving people who would throw their grandmothers under a bus for even a whiff of a little more power or money.

How do you know a politician is lying? His lips are moving.
How do you know a journalist is lying? His fingers are typing.

Absolutely. Losers don’t start wars.

Congratulations! Looks like you’re going to get your wish!
Though it looks like Trump has augmented his Russian mafia counsellor with an attempt to nail down the vital white supremacist vote

I have no idea where this kind of stuff comes from. Whether it’s Hillary or Trump, I won’t be booking ringside seats for the apocalypse, let’s put it that way. The United States will still be the United States. Whatever problems come up along the way, and there are bound to be some, will have to be dealt with. I have a lot more confidence in a Clinton presidency making favorable decisions and properly representing US interests than a Trump one. Count me “laughable” on that score if you like, but I think it’s a well supported statement.

Call me crazy here as well, but the only strategy that makes sense for the Republicans is trying to win every election.

That’s actually a pretty dense comment given both I and the person I was responding to were discussing the hypothetical differences between the two possible presidential approaches to foreign policy.

What do you think my wish is? I don’t want the neocons and the GOPe to be able to brag. Also, why would Trump get someone from the Russian mafia to get the white supremacist vote? Firstly, I’m not really sure what Russian mafia would have to do with that. Secondly, I’m not sure they’re enough of a voting bloc to do much of anything. Thirdly, I imagine they’d already be in his camp rather than Hillary’s, so he would surely already have them nailed down. Pretty strange comment lacking any real insight from you there.

I don’t expect there to be an apocalypse either (the black swan of hot nuclear war excepted). I expect the USA to steadily descend into another Brazil or South Africa over a period of decades, probably regardless of whether Hillary or Trump is at the helm for the next four to eight years, though they could certainly accelerate that process.

Trump has said he wants to talk with other potential major adversaries rather than antagonise them. Under Hillary’s tenure at the State Department and beyond under the same presidency, North Africa and the Middle East have been destabilised beyond what anyone could have expected for an already pretty volatile region, and this has had flow on effects to Europe; tensions with Russia have been inflamed; and East Asia has also become a lot hotter. You had absolutely no idea about any of this? Really? Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that? So you’ve just doubled down that Hillary would be better on international relations.

You are assuming that the GOP actually want to win at any cost though. They don’t. The Never Trump Movement, various attempts to change the convention rules, various states that didn’t have popular primary votes that stacked anyone but Trump delegates don’t mean anything? The amount of infighting and sniping compared to previous primaries and general campaigns doesn’t mean anything? Normally, the party rallied quite strongly behind the clear favourite and eventual candidate, and did so much sooner.

In some cases this comes from some of the GOPe and their hangers on who are true believers and don’t believe Trump is a true conservative (which, ironically, is why many other people support him). Others just want the gravy train to continue.

Another point about the GOPe not being particularly interested in victory is that even when they get it, they don’t know what to do with it. Witness the after effects of their victory in 2014. The hollowness of that victory has also driven disgust amongst the base.

I think (hope) that the GOP is dead (at least in the presidential race) after this election. It’s not even clear who their core demographic is anymore and how they could/would put together enough numbers to win. Many of the GOP base seem to have woken up that the GOP doesn’t represent them. Trump looks to be able to flip some Democrats, but Jeb, Cruz or any of the others wouldn’t have been able to do so. So who, exactly, is this fabled conservative base?

I suspect that Trump won’t win, but I absolutely know that any of their favourites would have been trounced by Hillary because it would have been like Romney 2.0, only with the demographics a little worse. Yet, if Trump loses, the GOPe will trot out Romney 3.0 in 2020; predictably, that won’t work either. At some point, you have to ask whether they’re that daft, or whether they don’t actually want to win. At that point, you then have to ask what’s in it for them as the permanent opposition party, and that’s when you get into the deep dysfunction and corruption of the political process and elite. These people are fiddling whilst Rome burns, but as long as they’ve got theirs it’s all good. In the meantime, it’s in the interests of the Democratic Party that the GOP doesn’t completely implode because they’re 1) a neutered opposition, 2) they lend legitimacy to the entire farce.

So long as we don’t get the back (grey?) swan of a nuclear war, it’s at least going to be pretty entertaining watching this all play out over the next few decades. There is probably even going to be a silver lining: if we can all get past the inevitable temper tantrums as the US declines in power, at least we’ll be spared its crappy “progressive” political and cultural agenda being forced upon the rest of the world.

No.

No.

Yes.

No.

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What I said the other day, basically

Oh wow, you sure showed me.

Why, it turned out that nice Mr. Trump was just funnin’ with all that nasty stuff about building a wall and kicking out illegal immigrants.

No citizenship. Let me go a step further—they’ll pay back-taxes, they have to pay taxes, there’s no amnesty, as such, there’s no amnesty, but we work with them. Now, everybody agrees we get the bad ones out. But when I go through and I meet thousands and thousands of people on this subject, and I’ve had very strong people come up to me, really great, great people come up to me, and they’ve said, “Mr. Trump, I love you, but to take a person who’s been here for 15 or 20 years and throw them and their family out, it’s so tough, Mr. Trump,” I have it all the time. It’s a very, very hard thing.

Fortunately, he’s not fooling Ann Coulter:

The Nigel Farage speech at a Trump rally was pretty high energy and on point. Contrast it with the Hillary Clinton speech, which was so laughably bad that it’s already spawning tons of internet keks (which is what people predicted). I thought she had this in the bag, but I’m beginning to wonder. I’m also wondering how she made it to the end of that speech. She sounded like she was ready to keel over (and it took her literally hours to get on stage). More calls about her health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj4K9fr_WgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyZX3UW8Qc