Lien/Soong will sell out Taiwan

Those fuckers will sell out Taiwan for sure if they are elected. They don’t understand the Taiwanese people (they are mainlanders), don’t understand what hard work is, and only care for themselves and not the country.

My parents live in the US, and they have heard stories of Lien and Song owning huge estates in California/Hawaii. My parents went on vacation last fall to Hawaii and even the tour guide had shown them the huge estate that Lien/Song (I forgot) owned, and said his son had his marriage there. Both Lien /Song’s families have greencards to the US and they can move freely in and out of Taiwan. To them Taiwan is not a major concern and winning the election is the most important shit for them, but they won’t know how to do crap when they are elected. Lien’s father nipple sucked him to every position possible and so that guy knows crap about Taiwanese farmers, and the blue-collar worker.

KMT has a shitload of money and they will use all they can to put out info that Chen is corrupt and wants war…etc --through the media.

The problem is people like him and other mainlanders think a lot differently than native Taiwanese and the aborigines. My parents, great grandparents, great great… have never even touched China. Our history and even culture are different in certain ways. Mainlanders tend to still hold on to the belief that we are all Chinese…which is completely wrong. Would an American of German descent say he was German? I don’t think so.

The people who work for the government and teachers also love KMT cause they get 18% interest rate after retirement in their accounts. Thats fucking unfair. Chen wanted to change the law, but it was abruptly stopped because of the fucking KMTs.

  1. Yes we have all “heard stories.”
  2. Don’t you think Annette Lu has a green card? She and Chen Shuibian have both been to Mainland China, so they both have Taibaozheng - unless they tore them up afterwards.
  3. Why did you start a new thead for this?
  4. Why do you use the words “fuck” and “shit” so much?

Would you say that the shooting today was the KMT’s version of democracy?

I have heard that in days past the KMT just packed people in burlap bags and threw them in the ocean.

Fifty years ago, they did. (See [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/where-are-all-the-bodies-buried/5246/1 are All the Bodies Buried"[/url].

[quote=“cornelldesi”]Those fuckers will sell out Taiwan for sure if they are elected. They don’t understand the Taiwanese people (they are mainlanders), don’t understand what hard work is, and only care for themselves and not the country.

My parents live in the US, and they have heard stories of Lien and Song owning huge estates in California/Hawaii. My parents went on vacation last fall to Hawaii and even the tour guide had shown them the huge estate that Lien/Song (I forgot) owned, and said his son had his marriage there. Both Lien /Song’s families have greencards to the US and they can move freely in and out of Taiwan. To them Taiwan is not a major concern and winning the election is the most important shit for them, but they won’t know how to do crap when they are elected. Lien’s father nipple sucked him to every position possible and so that guy knows crap about Taiwanese farmers, and the blue-collar worker.

KMT has a shitload of money and they will use all they can to put out info that Chen is corrupt and wants war…etc --through the media.

The problem is people like him and other mainlanders think a lot differently than native Taiwanese and the aborigines. My parents, great grandparents, great great… have never even touched China. Our history and even culture are different in certain ways. Mainlanders tend to still hold on to the belief that we are all Chinese…which is completely wrong. Would an American of German descent say he was German? I don’t think so.

The people who work for the government and teachers also love KMT cause they get 18% interest rate after retirement in their accounts. Thats fucking unfair. Chen wanted to change the law, but it was abruptly stopped because of the fucking KMTs.[/quote]

If someone born in China immigrated to Taiwan isn’t the person Taiwanese? Or Chinese-Taiwanese? As for your comment about Mainlanders believing we’re all chinese- we are by blood if your ancestors were originally from China. Mainlanders immigrated to Taiwan and become Taiwanese. But is it wrong for them to emphasize their roots? I support the DPP but don’t understand why there must be a Taiwanese vs. Mainlander argument. Everyone’s working and living on this island so the logical thing would be to vote for a party who will look after the interests of Taiwan as a WHOLE.

An American of German descent may call himself either an American or German-American depending on how strong a tie he has to his German roots. If you immigrated to the US, are you telling me you will refer to yourself only as an American and not teach your children about your native homeland or your native language? You can take on a new identity without having to shed your old one.

It’s important to note that Lian Zhan’s grandfather was a “native Taiwanese”. He was born in Tainan County, and moved to the mainland later. So despite being something of an ass, Lian Zhan has his “native Taiwanese” credentials firmly in place.

It’s hard to tell if Lien Zhan will sell out Taiwan, if he gets the job after the recount (or after Mainland China comes here to protect Taiwan area compatriots). If China takes over the island, Lien will surely be given the job of Taiwan Provincial governor, and in that case, he will do his best to turn Taiwan into an economic superpower to rival Japan. So no, he won’t sell out Taiwan. He has Taiwan’s interests at heart, actually, and as the psoter before me noted, his roots are in Tainan.

[quote=“saffron”]
If someone born in China immigrated to Taiwan isn’t the person Taiwanese? Or Chinese-Taiwanese? [/quote]

Here’s my rule: whatever country you owe most of your loyalty to, that’s your nationality. If you put the interests of China ahead of Taiwan, you ain’t Taiwanese. Jewish-Americans who put the interests of Israel ahead of those of America, Irish-Americans who fund the IRA, Cuban-Americans only using Florida as a temporary hideout - I don’t consider those people genuine Americans. Being Taiwanese is as much a state of mind as ethnicity. The waishengren who have accepted this as their country - they are truly Taiwanese. The many that still think of this island as a temporary nuisance and dream of China - they are not truly Taiwanese. They are more loyal to China than to Taiwan. Sooner or later, you have to make a decision where your true loyalties lie.

Well, let me put it this way, as I had said, none of my great grandparents or let alone great great grandparents have ever touched China’s mainland. My ancestors have lived on the island for many generations and we really have lost touch with what is now called Chinese. I don’t see how you can expect a Taiwanese person to begin to explain to their kids,grandkids, great -grandkids,etc. about Chinese history, culture, and language. The Taiwanese only received the mandarin language through the KMT, if the KMT weren’t here we’d all be “Japanese” speaking the language and having their culture.

The Taiwanese DO have some semblance of culture, no matter how small, even though the Japanese and Chinese KMT took much of it away, it is still there. So no, I don’t agree with the argument that we are Chinese. Sure ethnically we might be 90% or so Han, but give me a break,-- I don’t think I really care about being Chinese, other than the superficial fact that I am ethnically part Chinese, there is not much else. I’d rather be Taiwanese.

Then this argument can all be boiled down to something similar to this:

My family moved to Taiwan first, so we are more Taiwanese than the other guy’s family.

Sometimes in America (or other immigrant countries) you’ll find the same thing. By the way, I am 5th generation American, but I don’t consider myself more American than a first or second generation American.

I agree that this should be merged into a different thread. Mr. Cornell just wants to be heard, that’s why he created a separate thread.

It’s silly to take this thread down the path of Mainlander vs. Taiwanese. But in reply to the original claim:

[Lian/Song] will sell out Taiwan for sure if they are elected

I’m afraid that they will sell out Taiwan because the won’t be elected. I saw Lian Chan’s interview on CNN this morning, speaking nearly fluent English (a recap of yesterday’s press conference), and looking as brooding and ominous as ever.

He evaded the question about whether he will accept the election results if the courts decide not to do a recount. Instead, he said something really scary, and I paraphrase - if the results are not overturned, there will be very serious consequences for Taiwan.

I think most people hope that Lian/Song will retreat to their wealth in the states and recede into obscurity, but I’m afraid they want to go out w/ a bang. They’re pissed that their political toys have been taken away, and they want revenge.

My new fear, based on the Lian statements, is that this guy is planning a military coup backed by China. This is why he’s playing the “200,000” servicemen kept from voting" card, to get the military behind him. This guy wants to run the place even if it’s just a province.

[quote=“mangalica”]
My new fear, based on the Lian statements, is that this guy is planning a military coup backed by China. This is why he’s playing the “200,000” servicemen kept from voting" card, to get the military behind him. This guy wants to run the place even if it’s just a province.[/quote]

You got it, mangalica! The little boy prince is damned angry and mad, and would rather be Red than dead. Sad. Scary.

It would be ironic as hell if the PRC decided to interfere in Taiwan’s affairs because the
[color=red]KMT[/color]
folks were rioting/protesting.

in all truth tho’ i wouldnt worry that much…the protest is the work of die-hard extremists that lien is using to keep his own hopes alive…the actual substance of the protest will gradually be shown to be the fabrication that it is (i hope anyway) and there will be a critical mass of public opinion in favor of ratifying the poll results and getting on with life…

Bear is right. Civil war is not going to start because of 2,000 people down at the KMT headquarters. And anyway, most of the rabble rousing is being carried out by PFP lawmakers who realize that their careers are in the toilet because they threw their lot in with the KMT in an all-or-nothing grab for power. These people have their eyes on the legislative elections. If their party is a non-entity by the time the elections come around, then they have no hope of holding on to their seats.

Oh yes, I am not worried about civil war in the least. Been through this stuff before and have become a bit jaded.

Well, you might be jaded, but w/ all do respect you ain’t seen nothing like this before.

I see it befitting to quote the words of a certain hitman from the movie Pulp Fiction:

don’t blow this shit off, Jules … that was divine intervention! God came down and stopped the mfing bullets …

Well, you might be jaded, but w/ all do respect you ain’t seen nothing like this before.

I see it befitting to quote the words of a certain hitman from the movie Pulp Fiction:

don’t blow this shit off, Jules … that was divine intervention! God came down and stopped the mfing bullets … [/quote]

Horseshit. Same old “Let’s panic about this”. Same old “Let’s panic about that.”

[quote=“Durins Bane”][quote=“mangalica”]
don’t blow this shit off, Jules … that was divine intervention! God came down and stopped the mfing bullets … [/quote]

Horseshit. Same old “Let’s panic about this”. Same old “Let’s panic about that.”[/quote]

Ok, we get it already, you’ve been here too long. But you shouldn’t judge the explosive and unprecedented political climate of Taiwan today based on your own jaded “seen it all before” disposition.

I’m not alarmist or panicky by nature, I simply wrote down my gut reaction to Lian’s statements this morning. Here’s a guy who is used to power being handed to him for as long as he can remember. Until a few weeks ago he thought nothing stood between him and the presidency. Suddenly he is faced w/ no political future and the legacy of two consecutive failed bids, the 2nd against some tall odds. His statements have already proven that (a) he’s not ready to leave (b) he has no faith in Taiwanese democracy and the rule of law. So he has two options left, recede into his wealth and obscurity, or call on the friends he still has, namely the Angry Mob, the Military, and China … ok I am being alarmist, but it’s so much fun :smiling_imp: