London Underground Attack-Discussion

Discussion Open Forum
41

[quote=“hypermegaglobal”]My list was only about severe attacs by islamic terrorists (or attributed to islamic terrorists) since September 11 which jdsmith didn’t mention.

I agree with Roach terrorism has (or had) been very much a part of life in the UK and in many other European countries, too! I remember how some friends from the US were shocked to see cops with MPs on the airport in Frankfurt when visiting years before 9/11.
:frowning:[/quote]
BTW this thread is about what’s going on in London now - a lot of scared people, grieving people - it’s tragic!! Let’s keep on topic.

Bodo

42

[quote=“Bodo”][quote=“hypermegaglobal”]My list was only about severe attacs by islamic terrorists (or attributed to islamic terrorists) since September 11 which jdsmith didn’t mention.

I agree with Roach terrorism has (or had) been very much a part of life in the UK and in many other European countries, too! I remember how some friends from the US were shocked to see cops with MPs on the airport in Frankfurt when visiting years before 9/11.
:frowning:[/quote]
BTW who gives a flying FUCK about your list or what’s his name’s f***ing list. This thread is about what’s going on in London now - a lot of scared people, grieving people - it’s tragic!!

Bodo[/quote]

My friend, we have posting since the beginning, and the thread has had a few tangents…deal with them please…some of us, myself included, are trying to put the pieces together…

we are all equally concerned with friends, family and loved ones.

It is tragic and by god, we’ll get through this one too.

Peace

43

Agree …the needed coordination is just not available to the various “IRA”-types since the Omargh bombing.[/quote]

Anyone who ever thought it was the IRA knows jack shit.

44

Agree …the needed coordination is just not available to the various “IRA”-types since the Omargh bombing.[/quote]

Anyone who ever thought it was the IRA knows Jack shit.[/quote]Just like anyone who automatically dismisses the idea. Maybe I’ve been reading too much Stephen Leather but I wasn’t alone in having that thought.

45

[quote=“plasmatron”]Thanks for the updates and links guys…

I was expecting to hear casualty figures in the thousands… at least the death tolls are thankfully not as bad as I’d feared… still a tragic and senseless act of pointless brutality though… in peak rush hour too the f*cking bastards!..[/quote]

OK, shock is changing into anger and disgust…

3 train bombs and one bus bomb…a couple dozen deaths…

Now, that is tragic, but hey…that’s it. NYC had 3000. Thank god it wasn’t so bad. But you know what, this is the best they could do…

This is nothing on the grand scale of things ( he said emotionlessly); incredibly sad for the families who lost someone…

Let’s thank them for refocusing out attention.

jd seethes

46

[color=red]Moderator’s note:[/color] [color=green]Everyone, I’ve split the discussions. This thread is for discussions and what you think are possible reasons for attack. We’ll keep them here or move them to IP later on.

Apologies to irishstu for altering your original post.

We want to keep the threads focused for people who want to know the latest news and people who are up for discussing and venting their disgust.

Situations like this make every problem in my life seem so unimportant. I’m sorry to anyone who is affected by this atrocious act.

Take good care of your friends and families. God bless.

Thank you for your understanding.[/color]

47

so this is the vent thread??

48

Vent on. It’s necessary.

49

jdsmith once again shows his knee-jerk illogical side…

“this is against the rules”???

what the hell are the rules?

is one of them attacking a soveriegn nation?
is one of them occupying a nation against their will?
is one of them lying to justify a war against a country that was of no threat to the aggressor?

conventional warfare is not an option for the folks we have angered.

the tragedy in London is a result of the greed/corruption that has saturated the american/british leadership.

lets hope that this incident will cause Tony Blair to rethink his stances regarding the “war on terror”. he would do himself and his country a great service to break away from his allegiance to Bush.

50

Found on andrewsullivan.com:

“Here’s one cultural difference between Brits and Americans. Brits regard the best response to outrage to carry on as if nothing has happened. Yes, they will fight back. But first, they will just carry on as normal. Right now, a million kettles are boiling. “Is that the best you can do?” will be a typical response. Stoicism is not an American virtue.”

Where are you from, jdsmith? :wink:

51

Bollocks. Islamic fundamentalism has nothing to do with the greed and corruption of western powers. This is just an excuse justify extremism.

Let’s hope not. Terrorism has been around a long time before “the war on terror” came in to fruition. Islamic fundamentalism would still exist today, regardless of any conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and whererever.
Although I dislike Bush with a passion, the war on terror needs to be won.

As one Muslim leader once said on a live radio show:

[color=blue]Presenter[/color]: “…so I’ll ask you again, is your ultimate goal to convert Britain in to an Islamic state?”

[color=red]Muslim cleric[/color]: “Our ultimate goal is to have the sybol of Islam flying above Buckingham Palace, and we will do whatever it takes to reach our ultimate goal.”

52

This is utterly, fundamentally, and so clearly wrong. C’mon now…you cannot honestly believe this.

53

On the one hand, I’m for peace, love, understanding…

On the other hand…well, I don’t want to say what I’m thinking, it’s too fucked up and violent and obscene. I hate myself for hating Muslims and their stupid religion, but this is like the dozenth time crap like this has happened since 9/11, and it’s breaking the camel’s back. Why? Why do you people continue to do this shit? If your point is to convert people to your cause - well you blew it. You converted people to be against your cause, is what happened. I hate you and will do everything in my power to destroy you and your kind. I don’t want to ever kill innocents, because that will lower me to YOUR level. But mark my words, anyone who supports radical Islam and their activities, I want the U.S. and the U.K. to take these pricks and put them in jail and throw away the key. This is the straw. This is the straw that is breaking this camel’s back. I hate you bastards because you are making a civil libertarian like me want to compromise my democracy, my human rights, to stop monsters like you. (and that’s the right word - you aren’t human, you’re notihing but inhuman monsters who murder women, children…)

54

“Take care that in fighting monsters you do not become a monster yourself”

To more or less paraphrase, since I forgot the exact quote.

Make no mistake - these perpetrators are not “people” who deserva any respect or human rights, they are pure monsters who must be destroyed by any means possible. By their inhumane actions, they have forfeited their right to humanity.

But -

We have to take care to not lower ourselves to their level. My great fear is that in fighting terrorism, we will lose our democracy. Our human rights. It happened in WWII when we interned Japanese. It happened in the Cold War when we supported evil dictatorships to fight Communists. I hate that we have to do evil to do good.

55

Yeah? Why don’t you go suck on a granola bar or something.

56

I dunno about anyone else, but I thought George Dubaya had an odd smirky look on his face when I saw him on TV. Kinda like a welcome justification for his action in Iraq.

When he spoke, he almost said “We’re gonna smoke 'em out of their holes” too.

57

You can count me in on that one.

58

You can count me in on that one.[/quote]

Count me out as well. I did not see anything remotely like that.

59

Say that to the Muslims of London. Say that to Mulims picking pieces of glass from their faces alongside everyone else.

I don’t think the bombers are looking for your love! They want you to hate them and innocent Muslims too. Responses like this play into their hands, making it us - in their terms the Christian/capitalist/atheist west - against them - the devout Muslims.

I wasn’t sure whether this was talking about Bush’s foreign policy or Al Qaeda. It’s true of both of them, we have a polarised world, and that is what “they” want.

Sadly, they’re saying this about us too. And it’s true that women and children are dying in Iraq - whether you call it murder by monsters or not.

Know your enemy. Understand him and what and how he’s thinking. And know why you oppose him, how and where you differ. Then fight him and what he’s trying to achieve against you. But don’t hate him. Hate clouds your judgement and fuels his war.

I think Ken Livingstone (mayor of London) got it about right. Sorry for the long quote, I cut out what I could from the middle…

"I want to say one thing specifically to the world today. This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful. It was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Ministers. It was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any considerations for age, for class, for religion, or whatever.

"It is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder and we know what the objective is. They seek to divide Londoners. They seek to turn Londoners against each other.

[…]

"Finally, I wish to speak directly to those who came to London today to take life.

"I know that you personally do not fear giving up your own life in order to take others - that is why you are so dangerous. But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society and I can show you why you will fail.

"In the days that follow look at our airports, look at our sea ports and look at our railway stations and, even after your cowardly attack, you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and achieve their potential.

"They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be able to be themselves.

“They flee you because you tell them how they should live. They don’t want that and nothing you do, however many of us you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail.”

60

I was impressed with Ken’s speech also.

On the subject of speeches, I thought Tony Blair was only just holding it together during his first speech.