In an interview with US think tank CSIS, Ma said, in English, “We do not exclude political topics, however, if the people of Taiwan supported it (sic!).”
He also stressed that, in a bid to protect the peace across the Taiwan Strait, he has made it clear that the Republic of China will never pursue “two Chinas” (ROC and PRC), “one China and one Taiwan,” or Taiwanese independence.
So, there you have it. Taiwan is not a country, and if the KMT has its way, it never will be.
Before everyone gets angry over this, I have one thing to say: Don’t blame Ma. He’s never hidden his belief that Taiwan and China are the same country. If you have to blame someone, you should blame the voters who elected him twice on that platform.
I blame Ma for being a general prick. But you are right: The voters are to blame for A: Voting for a liar and a general buffoon and, B: Having the stupidity, while the rest of the developed world has moved forward and rid itself of regimes, to vote in a party which has little changed in mentality from the years when it used to persecute, censor, rob and steal from the very people it should be representing. It strikes me that voters in Taiwan have very, very short memories indeed.
I blame the voters voting KMT, period. It is clear that the KMT has a “One China” policy, and as long as the KMT are in control, the lines will always be blurred. DPP had a chance to turn things around, but they blew it so hard. They are not a good alternative. I’m praying that the new student movement can make a splash in the political scene that can finally turn Taiwan in the right direction.
I find it tiresome when people bring up Ma being a liar. Is he? Sure. But every politician in the world, certainly every president / prime minister is. Left wing, right wing, liberal, conservative, they are all liars.
[quote=“Hokwongwei”]
Before everyone gets angry over this, I have one thing to say: Don’t blame Ma. He’s never hidden his belief that Taiwan and China are the same country. If you have to blame someone, you should blame the voters who elected him twice on that platform.[/quote]
I don’t know if I agree with this. Ma co-opted much of the moderate stream of pan-green rhetoric on sovereignty and identity during his election campaigns. We have only been getting these statements out of him in the last two years, now that he doesn’t ever have to face voters again.
I find politicians tiresome in general. However, Ma goes one step further, especially in regards to hiding his alien legal status and past personal events, which go well beyond just lying as a politician.
[quote=“cfimages”]
I find it tiresome when people bring up Ma being a liar. Is he? Sure. But every politician in the world, certainly every president / prime minister is. Left wing, right wing, liberal, conservative, they are all liars. [/quote]
Which raises the question: why is it that all politicans are liars?
Ultimately, the people get the political class that the majority of voters deserve.
I blame the voters voting KMT, period. It is clear that the KMT has a “One China” policy, and as long as the KMT are in control, the lines will always be blurred. DPP had a chance to turn things around, but they blew it so hard. They are not a good alternative. I’m praying that the new student movement can make a splash in the political scene that can finally turn Taiwan in the right direction.[/quote]
He’s handsome.
I find it tiresome when people bring up Ma being a liar. Is he? Sure. But every politician in the world, certainly every president / prime minister is. Left wing, right wing, liberal, conservative, they are all liars. [/quote]
I also find it tiresome when people make blanket statements about all politicians being liars. Are they? Sure. But every single person living on this planet had lied and therefore are liars and will very likely lie again in the near future. I just want my politicians to not lie to me on things that matters. Ma isn’t one of those politicians.
Okay…more bad mouthing Ma and KMT. I hate to break it to you but all of those very stupid voters are still around and will vote for KMT in next election. C’mon…isn’t it very obvious that people are scared of DPP pissing China off which leads to the economy in ruins and Taiwan even more isolated? And where are the other proposals and policies from DPP to address other issues?
Most people don’t like the KMT but the other choice is dangerous from their viewpoint. Most people just want to keep basic friendly relations with China, even if we lose some face along the way. And, most people don’t believe that the KMT is trying to reunify Taiwan with China.
The DPP has had 6 years to discuss their in-depth planning for the future and convince voters that they can create a better future for Taiwan than KMT can. The DPP has wasted the last 6 years and seems to be absolutely desperate at this point to put together a sound political platform. This reminds me of U.S. where people just bad mouth Obama and try to stop anything he does, good or bad. That is not constructive but destructive move is what is DPP platform now.
My DPP friends can only tell me that AFTER they are in power then Taiwan can see how good they are. Well, the last DPP president didn’t impress most people so they are waiting for DPP to put together a strong professional team. If the DPP simply put together a moderate team of leaders which did not spend everyday picking a fight with KMT and stated clearly they would not plan to declare independence, I think they could win a majority of voters.
I know is hard for DPP to understand but those voters don’t feel pissed off enough by Ma and KMT to vote for DPP. What does piss them off is the constant fighting which is not necessary anymore…as much as DPP would like to make people believe. DPP politicians should just perform their political duties in a professional way and let the voters choose them next time instead of KMT…and then the DPP will have your majority/ruling govt. (and please don’t make up 100 excuses blaming KMT and all of those stupid voters when you lose…)
Taiwan obviously needs DPP to be a viable political party to help improve overall Taiwan democratic process.
A professional, less radical DPP will garner enough votes to make KMT improve. Isn’t that democracy? Or are Taiwan voters too stupid to know what is good for them?
Yup. What choice do the people have? The DPP? Yeah, right. The DPP had promise before Chen came along and ruined the party. And now Ma is doing the same to the KMT, which had been improving under Lee. Two parties ruined in less than a decade.
What is this radical DPP you talk of? The last presidential candidate was a LSE educated technocrat who negotiated Taiwan’s entry into the WTO and fought to increase ties with China (including direct flights) while head of the MAC under Chen. She’s about as radical as beef noodles.
The 2008 candidate was Frank Hsieh who is pragmatic, made vast changes for the better in Ktown as mayor, and has recently paid visits to China to discuss how to resolve sovereignty issues.
Suggesting that the KMT are the more professional party at this point is risible. Not understanding that they are the radical party upending the status quo is incomprehensible.
That’s the problem. The KMT is all about unifying with China (though on its own terms), but voters willfully ignore this at election time only to get angry when the KMT leader makes comments to that effect. I don’t see anything wrong with unification, but I do see a lot wrong with voters not understanding who they’re electing. Note that I am not blaming the ruling party here. (If anyone’s at fault, it’s probably the media.)
That’s the problem. The KMT is all about unifying with China (though on its own terms), but voters willfully ignore this at election time only to get angry when the KMT leader makes comments to that effect. I don’t see anything wrong with unification, but I do see a lot wrong with voters not understanding who they’re electing. Note that I am not blaming the ruling party here. (If anyone’s at fault, it’s probably the media.)[/quote]
A split in the KMT leaving a Taiwan KMT and a rabit pro-unification fringe party would work out best for Taiwan.
I think Lee Denghui tried to engineer that, and actually suceeded until after 2000, when Lian Zhan invited the rabid old mainlanders in again.
Wasn’t that dismissed as ridiculous a long time ago? I’ve been seeing it pop up again on Facebook recently, and I have to say it smacks of birthers in the U.S.
Yeah that’s irrelevant rubbish. However what’s not irrelevant are allegations he paid on fellow students when on his KMT sponsored scholarship in the US.
Ma has taken quite a tack towards China, more so than what was said in his campaigns.
The country needs a third party to form coalitions and moderate policies instead of possible radical lurches between green and blue every-time an election happens. It would be much better if it was a parliamentary system. The current system is hindering development and government efficiency.
What is this radical DPP you talk of? The last presidential candidate was a LSE educated technocrat who negotiated Taiwan’s entry into the WTO and fought to increase ties with China (including direct flights) while head of the MAC under Chen. She’s about as radical as beef noodles.
The 2008 candidate was Frank Hsieh who is pragmatic, made vast changes for the better in Ktown as mayor, and has recently paid visits to China to discuss how to resolve sovereignty issues.
Suggesting that the KMT are the more professional party at this point is risible. Not understanding that they are the radical party upending the status quo is incomprehensible.[/quote]
I am glad to give you a laugh. Meanwhile, I and so many are waiting for those professional DPP leaders to make all the great leadership moves that will win them votes and respect. Well, we are waiting…and meanwhile seems the Taiwan people are too stupid to realize how radical the KMT is and how the DPP is the better choice. If only Ms Tsai and Mr Hsieh would step up and control the less moderates (I dare not say radical elements) and show they can really move Taiwan forward and not confront China…then they could win the presidency.
