Well of course it’s unfair if your wife and your girlfriend have to share one man, Andrew! 
hahaha
major slip of the tongue
I’d like to see Muslims thanking their multiple wives by name, lol
Wasn’t sure where to put this. It’s a bunch of not-very-bright women arguing that there’s a gender wage gap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbOL1Ko4fTY
The commentary is just confusing, but you can draw your own conclusions from the embedded clips. I actually felt sorry for these women, who are clearly well-intentioned, but intellectually out-gunned by the senator. They’re too daft to be doing what they’re doing - which, if there is a genuine wage gap, is a worthy project.
It’s pretty simple math that’s being discussed here, and in fact the more sensible way of comparing salaries would be to survey men and women doing the same job with the same hours (because productivity doesn’t scale linearly with hours worked). But nobody seems to have thought of that.
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Stats eh, you can make them say what you want as long as you hide the relevant facts …a lot of the time.
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I don’t believe men are bashed so much as male privilege is more in the spotlight. As you correctly point out, there is a lot of hyperbole, but the stats still point to inequalities. Pointing out these inequalities isn’t bashing men, that seems to be playing the role of victim disingenuously.
There’s really bad journalism all over the spectrum. Here’s some numbers, they’re better for discussion purposes
It’s about using statistics to manipulate a political agenda such as knowing full well men on average work more than women and even more after marriage and kids and not adjusting to it like the above video. And a lot of statistical illiterate people who are just ignorant and just buy into without thinking.
Even the numbers you posted don’t take into account life style choices and differences in men and women. Some of the differences may be small but produce drastic differences on a large scale. I remember one stats show how business majors, men make more after graduation but they didn’t take into account what they concentrated in. Someone that is skilled at quantitative finance is going to make significantly more than say a management major. For examples, in college almost all up my upper level finance, accounting, statistics classes were all men. And really ambitious money hungry aggressive types. I’ve rarely found these traits in women, some but not many. Actually i’ve rarely find these types like my father who worked 80 hours a week and probably more because weekends were often golfing with clients and after work was drinking with clients. He would go from work at 8, after work at 6 for dinner with clients and drink until 2-3am before coming back. Get up at 630 and repeat this for years. Most women who do take business majors are taking things like marketing and basic management. Those classes where actually closer to 50/50.
My school has a 40/60 men to women ratio as well. We always joked the science and engineering building and business building was all men and our nursing, liberal arts, and education building were all women. It was very clear.
I think the reality is, some of these positions like executive and board members, are not positions most people can handle and sacrifice for. I’ve met a lot of executives since my father was one for one of the largest firms in Taiwan. Met executives from samsung, LG, Sharp, etc. They all are insane workers like my father. And for the top positions held by women, for example i’ve met a lot of female partners at law firms around the world because lilith’s dad owns a law firm as well. All hyper productive women. But they almost all do not have steady relationships, a marriage, or kids. I think with our limited ability as human beings, it is extremely hard for women have that kind of productively and have things like children for obvious biological reasons. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have equal opportunities if that is what they want to do. I think for the feminists out there, it’s hard to fathom equal opportunities do not always produce equal outcomes.
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“statsical illiterate”
what stats are you referring to specifically?
“men on average work more than women”
they also carry children, give birth to them, and raise them, often while ‘working’ as hard as you do. Does that count as work in your mind?
" I remember one stats show how business majors, men make more after graduation but they didn’t take into account what they concentrated in. Someone that is skilled at quantitative finance is going to make significantly more than say a management major"
I’d think a likely explanation for this is that men have greater access and more opportunities at higher level positions. It seems unlikely women have equal opportunity but choose not to try to reach high level jobs.
And really ambitious money hungry aggressive types. I’ve rarely found these traits in women, some but not many."
Small sample size, and has a lot to do with who you choose to hang out with I reckon
“We always joked the science and engineering building and business building was all men and our nursing, liberal arts, and education building were all women. It was very clear.”
Perhaps this is what women are objecting to, because they’d also like higher paying jobs and why the (narrowing but existent) gap is being brought up, rather than the interpretation as ‘men bashing’ which frankly I never hear anywhere, if we’re being anecdotal.
“But they almost all do not have steady relationships, a marriage, or kids. I think with our limited ability as human beings, it is extremely hard for women have that kind of productively and have things like children for obvious biological reasons.”
You are attributing this to biology. Women that are seeking equal opportunity will say this is due to a glass ceiling. It may be obvious to you, but you’re assuming this
“I think for the feminists out there, it’s hard to fathom equal opportunities do not always produce equal outcomes.”
More realistically, degrading women that seek equal opportunity and making arguments based on biology, and the regressive practice of labeling career driven women as ‘feminists’ makes me think its hard for some people to fathom that the opportunities are in fact not equal. Which is what the stats in the chart say for those literate enough to evaluate them.
Are you serious? Not in this context. We are talking about wage gap in the workforce and hours worked.
This is university…they can pick whatever they want to study as long as they can pass. If your theory is the case the classes would have equal amounts women in college and the positions available would drop after. This is not the case. Math doesn’t discriminate, to go into the these classes you need to take classes that are prerequisites and showcase you have the ability to go into the higher level classes or you need to switch your major or concentration.
Look at Math 55 in Harvard, dubbed he hardest math class in the world. I think less than 20 women have ever completed the course and most years no women are able to complete it. Math does not discriminate against gender.
I don’t get to pick who is in my class. You either have the grades to enrol or you don’t.
They are objecting to being able to freely choose what they want to study and do after? If someone wants a higher paying job…you have learn skills required to earn more. No one is stopping anyone from doing that. This is the ridiculousness of what a lot of feminist can’t grasp when women freely choose against what their theories say should happen. They keep trying to give scholarships and have programs for women in stem majors and over and over again, women choose not to go into them. So they go back and say it’s more evidence of the patriarchy instead of seeing the same phenomenon observed by psychologists for years. That men and women on average have differences and make different life style choices.
Even in your article, Sweden is shown as the most equal place. What you should know, the differences between lifestyle and career choices get even larger. More men go into stem and more women go into soft sciences like nursing, and psychology and fields like teaching compared to less equal countries.
Yeah, of course biology plays a role. Women can do something men can’t. And it takes a toll if you have not noticed.
The stats don’t say that if you can interpret them. Maybe for some countries sure. But to say there are no biological differences between men and women is anti science. And to say there is no differences between men and women’s lifestyles choices is also not in line with basically every single psychological study done. And it makes me think that you have never been around the opposite sex. Most of it is pretty evident, but I guess you’ll just use that as more evidence of the patriarchy to prove the patriarchy exist.
Also isn’t that just for my point that there are biological differences and lifestyle choice differences?
Those obviously exist but do not refute evidence that there are barriers to advancement not caused by these factors.
I have no doubt they exist in many places, especially in most of the developing world. But for most of the developed world like the US/Canada/Europe a lot of companies and schools have tried their best to put women in more positions for gender quotas to be more PC. A perfect example is Trudeau who literally made his cabinet positions 50:50 instead of actually the most fit.
That’s not to say discrimination does not exist even in the developed countries. I’m certain there are numerous numbers of cases where discrimination is happening, to men, women, lgbt, whites, blacks or whatever reason. And historically what you are claiming is absolutely true. But past discrimination is not evidence of current discrimination.
We more or less agree. Not all of the discrepancies are due to discrimination as you said.
I’ve spent enough time in a very male dominated industry to see this play out. In pro sports I know a lot of women in administrative positions that would be GMS of teams if they were male. Copirate culture is not friendly to this.
The best scout in Asia was a woman that never got full credit and always had her qualifications questioned with a higher degree of scrutiny than their less talented male counterparts. To be fair pro sports is particularly male dominated industry. But I know a lot of women more qualified than the men on the fast track to GM jobs etc.
And as you said, varies big time by region. Traditional gender roles and assumptions of those roles play a bug factor.
I was responding to the title of the thread, are men facing reverse discrimination. The answer to that is no in most cases. Women don’t avoid higher paying gigs when available in most cases.
Ironically as a scout I get a lot of shit for saying that there will never be a female mlb player. This is something I can say is biological. As far as corporate jobs, I don’t believe that’s the case as there are no physiological limitations.
Labeling those pointing this out as feminists seems out of line.
You are probably right about the sports industry. I think Asia is probably going to be more biased than others. Never mind our best Olympians that win gold and place in Taiwan are women lol. Taiwan is a women’s powerlifting powerhouse, I believe Taiwanese women hold most of the world record lifts. It’s rather impressive and I had a chance to see one of them training and it’s unbelievable.
I also don’t believe there will be a women capable of hitting a major league fastball. I mean not many men are either so. MLB have tried to make it happen though with some Decent female ball players that managed to play pro. But there’s a big difference at the major league level.
I too have made that biased thought when I had a female basketball coach once for a summer league. Really questioned if she was able to coach. But she actually turned out to be one of the coaches that really believed in me and played me a lot in a black dominated sport where Asians probably suffer under some biases.
It seems like you manage to put a smile on my face every day, Andrew. Thank you. 
(No, I won’t go off topic about it. That’s for IP.)
Hey y’all, here’s a quick side-question.
Regarding purely the current state of this thread (not how it began):
- Would you agree that this “thread has been pretty well established, as a non-specific vent thread”?
Lmk—
While we’re at it, how’s the title?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/WWE_World_Heavyweight_Championship.png
Prefer the classic black over the flamin’ red one
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/WWE_Universal_Championship.png
