Mandarin and English requirement for English Teachers

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
41

[quote=“Mr He”]Even better… Let’s send all the unskilled Taiwanese to the mainland. This way, Taiwan will quickly become the most skilled country in the world.

I would suggest that the exams should focus on:

  1. English skills.
  2. Sun Yatsen’s 3 principles of the people.
  3. Betel nut chewing.

Only people excelling in all tree disciplines should be allowed to stay.[/quote]

straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/s … 40,00.html?

FEB 9, 2003
‘Taiwan villages’ to rise in China’s south
TAIPEI - ‘Taiwan villages’ will soon be sprouting up in southern China’s Guangdong province.

Local authorities have given the go-ahead for the construction of such districts to house the growing number of Taiwanese businessmen working in the province, the Chinese- language China Times reported yesterday.

The idea of setting up ‘Taiwan villages’ in 32 local townships was mooted recently by the Taiwanese community in the province’s Dongguan city - a popular investment destination among businessmen from the island.

The proposal stemmed from the Taiwanese community’s growing concern over their safety amid an increasing number of cases of Taiwanese working in Dongguan being murdered or kidnapped in recent years.

Thus, these businessmen feel that it is safer for them to reside in the same district as they can help to look out for each other.

According to Mr Chang Han-wen, president of the Dongguan Taiwan Businessmen Association, there are more than 15,000 Taiwanese firms in the city, employing some 110,000 Taiwanese.

‘We hope that with the establishment of the Taiwan village, Taiwanese expatriates can have a greater sense of security by living together,’ said Mr Chang.

Lawlessness is rampant in Dongguan, where three-quarters of the six million residents are foreigners or mainland Chinese from other provinces, Hongkong’s Apple Daily said yesterday.

In addition to the housing proposal, children of Taiwanese expatriates will also have a school of their own.

42

[quote=“Alleycat”]To attract “more quality people,” more financial incentive would be needed. Simple economics, no?

It follows then, according to your argument, that the Taiwanese government, which is already being exploited by"overpaid" English teachers, would be even more susceptible to the greed of foreigners.

Dumbass[/quote]

No. With the current economic situation there would be alot of people willing to work for less. Even if Taiwan pays English teacher less than what they are getting now, quality people will still come to Taiwan to teach.

43

Don’t worry! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … /17/168342

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … /19/168618

44

Do you mean to tell me that simple laws of economics do not apply in Taiwan?

can you read this graph?

Equilibrium price is what native English teachers receive in Taiwan.

On another graph plotting the salaries of Taiwanese teachers, there too would be an equilibrium price. and you bet, that price is lower than the foreign teachers. This is because there is less supply of foreign teachers.

45

[quote=“Alleycat”]Duh, so Taiwan is like space, where physical laws do not apply?

Do you mean to tell me that simple laws of economics do not apply in Taiwan?

can you read this graph?[/quote]

Where did i say laws of economics do not apply to Taiwan?

In bad economic times, people will be forced to take lower salaries.

46

[quote=“jasonlin”]
No. With the current economic situation there would be alot of people willing to work for less. Even if Taiwan pays English teacher less than what they are getting now, quality people will still come to Taiwan to teach.[/quote]

Actually, most teachers are now going to China. Pay/benefits are better and there aren’t as many visa problems.

47

Jason, you mentioned something about the salaries paid to foreign teachers–you wrote:

No. With the current economic situation there would be alot of people willing to work for less. Even if Taiwan pays English teacher less than what they are getting now, quality people will still come to Taiwan to teach.

GRAPH ABOVE

Look at the red line-supply on the graph above. Do you see that at a price of 0, there is no supply.

Look at the blue line, at a price higher than 50, there is no demand.

Equilibrium price is the gradual give and take of both demander and supplier, to find a suitable price. A weeding out process in fact. Fewer people come here because at the prices they are willing to supply at, there is no demand. If there were more people willing to come to Taiwan and teach for less, as below, then the equilibrium price would fall. not because you think people should accept less.

Look now: say the supply was higher and that at a price of 5, instead of 10, you would have 1 unit of supply, assuming demand is constant, the equilibrium price would be lower.

The salaries foreigners are paid is a result of this law and because they exploit the government or the people of Taiwan.

NOW LOOK AT THIS GRAPH, the right one:

See what happens when there is a shift in supply from S to S1. More supply means a lower equilibrium price.

[I have removed the graph. - Hexuan]

Is this what you want? More teachers, more unqualified teachers, working for less.

Be careful of what you wish for, as “you get what you pay for” didn’t become old wisdom if it didn’t resonate.

48

[quote=“Alleycat”]

The salaries foreigners are paid is a result of this law and not of exploitation.[/quote]

Did I ever mention salaries paid to foreingers are too high(in this thread)?

49

Jason,
What is the correlation between the qualifications for English teachers and an independent Taiwan?

Some of us foreigners bring back to our home countries the unbelievable story about the “relationship” between Taiwan and China. Virtually no one back home is aware of the situation, but after beeing introduced to it, they feel it is pretty unreal.

I sympathize with your goal of independence, but I feel you are hurting your case with your approach, attacking the English teaching society here in Taiwan.

You should concetrate all your energy on installing a fighting spirit for independence among fellow Taiwanese, and provide us foreigners with the right tools to make your independence case heard among the government in our home cuontries. When/if our governments see that there is a real willingness to carry the burden of a fight for independence, they will maybe support your case in the international fora.

But, you will never get any sympathy from us by sniper-attack on the English teachers under cover of promoting Taiwanese independence.

No, I am not an English teacher…

50

[quote=“jasonlin”]
Wasn’t the legislation passed under KMT regime? Isn’t the legislature still controlled by the KMT?[/quote]

What does it matter? Were they not elecetd?

Speaking from personal experience, I spent my first 8 months in Taiwan with virtually no Mandarin skills and had no major problems with communication at or away from work. Do other countries have similar laws, or are you just being a pain in the ass?

51

No more Economics lessons or TI discussions in here ! We have established that for some reason upon which he does not appear willing to elaborate, Jason does not agree that English teachers’ salaries are determined by the market, and furthermore that they are paid “too much”. Let us leave it at that.

Taiwanese independence is off-topic in here.

Pay and conditions in the mainland were pants last time I looked (1998). Anyone who knows a bit about it, feel free to start a new thread.

52

[quote=“jasonlin”]
Wasn’t the legislation passed under KMT regime?[/quote]

But it’s the DPP that uses Hitler in it’s campaign ads.:smiling_imp:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1437910.stm

etaiwannews.com/Editorial/20 … 681249.htm

And according to Johannes Goeth of the German Trade Office in Taipei, “Taxi drivers will often tell me Hitler was a great man, very strong.”

taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/19991 … 123s1.html

At least the Chinese Communists aren’t so boneheaded.

fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/200011/ … 56422.html

[Let’s get back to English teaching ! - Hexuan]

53

[quote=“jeff”]
What does it matter? Were they not elecetd?[/quote]

If ROC people do not want to change the law what can I do? I am trying to get rid of ROC so the chances of you getting your citizenship would be greater.

H. R. 4227 (H1B Visa), Sec 203 privides:
"… In the case of a position in a specialty occupation that requires an alien to provide instruction in any subject to students in the United States, the requirements of this paragraph also include a requirement that the alien have the level of competence in oral and written English considered by the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of Education, to be appropriate for work of the kind in which the alien will be engaged, as shown by an appropriate score on one or more nationally recognized, commercially available, standardized assessments of ability to speak and write English."

The same standard should apply to foreigners who come to Taiwan.

54

Jason, this language skill thing is all political isn’t it?
It’s all about the Jason Lin, I want a higher paid job, political party. Good economic thinking there Jason. Raise the standards, diminish the supply and vola, Jason is in demand.

The only thing is, is that you’re the only member of that party Jason, and no one here is going to vote for you. Nor do I suspect will the Taiwanese. Why? Wait for it, wait for it. Because they’re too busy making money.

So here’s some advice, get off your ass and do the same and quit whining.

This thread, if i may be so bold, has run it’s course.

Another thing: English is THE international language.

That is the very reason why there is a demand for English teachers.

Taiwanese are not intrested in the Mandarin ability of foreigners; they are exclusively interested in the English ability of the teachers they hire.

55

[quote=“jasonlin”][quote=“daltongang”][quote=“jasonlin”]
If Taiwan has to do that to attract more quality people, then yes.

[/quote]

You of course know who is the quality person and who is not better than the people who have to hire them.[/quote]

Did I ever say I know? This is only designed to ensure skilled foreign workers possess the basic communication skills nessary to communicate with the locals (who do not speak a word of English).[/quote]

You certainly imply it. If I have a private company or school and the smallest shred of intelligence, and unless I want to go bankrupt, I am not going to hire non-Mandarin speakers to positions where they will have to communicate in that language, and I am not going to want some bright-eyed einstein in the government telling me who to hire and not to hire.

56

[quote=“jasonlin”]H. R. 4227 (H1B Visa), Sec 203 privides:
"… In the case of a position in a specialty occupation that requires an alien to provide instruction in any subject to students in the United States, the requirements of this paragraph also include a requirement that the alien have the level of competence in oral and written English considered by the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of Education, to be appropriate for work of the kind in which the alien will be engaged, as shown by an appropriate score on one or more nationally recognized, commercially available, standardized assessments of ability to speak and write English."

The same standard should apply to foreigners who come to Taiwan.[/quote]

What can you say to this? Perhaps you think that this standard was designed to meet the pressing need for foreign language teachers in the US.

57

[quote=“jasonlin”]

H. R. 4227 (H1B Visa), Sec 203 privides:
"… In the case of a position in a specialty occupation that requires an alien to provide instruction in any subject to students in the United States, the requirements of this paragraph also include a requirement that the alien have the level of competence in oral and written English considered by the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of Education, to be appropriate for work of the kind in which the alien will be engaged, as shown by an appropriate score on one or more nationally recognized, commercially available, standardized assessments of ability to speak and write English."[/quote]

Damn, I wish they had mentioned that to my TAs in college.

So that would apply for government teaching positions. Most buxibans encourage their English teachers NOT to speak Chinese with the students, so a Mandarin proficiency test would be sort of pointless. Besides, most schools provide assisstants for teachers who don’t speak Mandarin (a strong motivation to learn it!).

But why should there be similar tests for other, non-teaching, professions?

PS: Am I alone in this, or is this thread acting strangely for everyone? That graph above is now enormous, and I have to scroll way the hell over to the right to read the posts. This seems to be the only thread acting like this.

58

kill cat’s second graph. it’s too wide and stretching the page out.

face it, jason, taiwanese people do NOT want to pay you as much as they want to pay your south african coworker. they want their kids to learn english from someone who is not taiwanese. instead of bashing your coworker, why not expend a little energy bashing the taiwanese parents? your hypocrisy is alarming.

why do parents pay such outrageous amounts(relative to cost of living here) to send their kids to buxibans to take english classes from scruffy foreigners? because they feel that english teachers in taiwanese schools SUCK.

you can’t blame everything on the scary foreigners, jason. your xenophobia taints any arguments you attempt to make.

59

Dont trouble yourself. Taiwan independence doesn’t concern foreigners anyways, it is entirely up to the people of Taiwan. So lets get back to the topic.[/quote]

If you’re so insistent on this point, then how about the U.S. gives up it’s pledge to defend Taiwan militarily from the mainland? If you think that foreigners’ opinions are worthless in this matter (when at the present time foreigners’ lives and money would be spent defending your “country”), then I suppose you don’t want our protection either.

60

Taiwan’s independence won’t mean a hill of beans if the international community doesn’t recognize them as being independent. Kind of the way they ignore them now. Taiwan’s independence isn’t a Taiwanese-only issue. You can think you are independent all you want. If no one treats you as such, then what? Call on the Taiwanese Armed Reserves to make the UN give them a spot on major councils?
Oooh…:unamused: