Exactly. I’ve been stoned and I’ve been straight. Straight is better. Stoned can be OK too if you know what you are doing, are very careful, and get that way VERY seldom. Some will say “oh yeah, bob, maybe for you. I like doing dope all the time”. They haven’t been doing dope long enough. Others will say “oh yeah, bob, I think dope is for dopes so I never did any”. They are right about one thing - they never did dope, and in a sense they don’t know what they are talking about. “Oh, but bob, my sisters boyfrineds uncle did LSD and and went insane”. Ok but I did LSD and saw god etc etc etc. It will never end till people realize that the desire to achieve alternate states of consciousness is a natural one but that drugs can be a very very dangerous way of achieving that. The whole thing should be taken off the streets and put into the hands of professionals, people who know how to create a safe environment to do drugs. That is unlikely to happen though so conversations like this are likely to continue indefinitely and people will continue to have destructive drug experiences. 
If God didn’t want us to get high he wouldn’t have made purple haired cripple bud.
Well it’s not like most normal people make some imaginary distinction between living stoned or straight. If you’re going to get stoned/drunk every day, then you probably shouldn’t touch the stuff, Bob. Go ahead and life your life straight, that’s better for you. But for most people, they live most of their lives straight and get stoned/drunk once in a while on the weekends to party, and what’s wrong with that? It’s not some black or white decision. You can do drugs without turning into an addict. I’ve smoked marijuana since I was a teenager and it’s always between at roughly five or six month intervals; I’ve never had the temptation to get high off of pot much more than that. I’ve never bought any, it was always a case of one of my friends had some and I went, “Why not?” It’s not really my cup of tea as a drug, but it’s certainly no worse than going out to a pub and pounding back a few beers as many people do legally every day.
Not everybody has an addictive personality in their genes.
Hmm… as oppose to…constructive drug experiences?
Drugs are bad, street ones or those use by Psychiatrists to “help” others.
[quote=“cableguy”]Thus, when someone breaks the law here, it makes the rest of us law abiding foreigners really look bad.
So, leave the weed alone and partake of the “legal” drugs if you must: wine, beer, betel nuts (which I don’t know if they are really a drug, although I heard that they give the chewer a buzz).[/quote]
You have your right to hold that opinion, so don’t take this personally, but I completely disagree with what you said.
The perception of foreigners as illegal drug users is currently far overshadowed by the image of us being alcohol sodden sex-predators.
Take a look at, for example, the ‘Pig a Whistle threads’ to see the trouble ‘legal’ drugs are causing, or for real-life experience go to any of the bars with $500 all you can drink offers.
The key is moderation in anything, not segregation into ‘right’ and ‘wrong’. If you do that then certain types of people see it as a licence to do one thing too excess whilst trying to take the superior high ground over others.
Taking your pants off, repeatedly pestering the opposite sex, and/or openly vomiting on the dance floor multiple times throughout a night, is unacceptable whatever you’ve been taking/drinking/snorting etc.
However, it’s only the ‘legal’ alcohol drinkers who I see doing these things.
I don’t know, I had plenty of good experiences on weed, and alcohol for that matter.
I agree with most of what bob’s said. I still think there are some drugs that are too dangerous regardless of administration - things like pure meth, heroin, all that - but the urge to experiment is a natural one, and if done in an appropriate environment, a healthy one. Me, I smoked weed like a fiend for a couple of years, even spending about a solid month stoned out of my mind, and it was a great experience. Through that I learned about myself - not through any hallucinations or any crap like that, simply through the experience - and came out the other side, I believe, a better person. I also reached a point, as did the friends I smoked with, where we just went “Meh. Bored now. Time to quit,” and did so. I still smoke occasionally - very occasionally - and it’s the same, to me, as getting really really drunk every once in a while. Sometimes you just need to have a blowout, get out of your head, and it’s like hitting the reset button on body and mind. Do it too often and you’ll and up wrecked and going nowhere, but once in a while, it’s bordering on therapeutic.
Absolutely. The debate continues to rage because some people can’t understand that and because while it “can” be therapeutic it so often isn’t. What I am suggesting is a more serious, enlightened approach to the situation. One that respects the desire to experiment but does so with an eye towards preventing the destruction that it so often entails. To that end I would advocate imposing more controls over alcohol and making hallucinagens available in controled settings.
Exactly. For example, the traditional blue collar habit of slaving at a crap job all week, hating every minute of Monday to Friday, and you just have to get all of that out of your system by hitting your local on the weekend and getting out of your miserable, mundane existence for at least one night. Millions do that all over the world and it is indeed highly therapuetic. If they didn’t have that outlet you’d see people smashing up their workplace.
I suspect that if they spent a weekend or two every year in a retreat for mushroom lovers they would probably end up quiting those jobs. Alcohol just numbs the mind. Hallucinagenics expand it, at least temporarily. They have been part of man’s experience for thousands of years, as has alcohol. It isn’t difficult to see which has done, and which continues to do, the most damage. By the way I was develpoing a fairly regular beer habit before going to Indonesia. The only time I have drunk since returning to Taiwan was at happy hour. I’ve lost about ten pounds, am sleeping better and am not half sick all the time. Strange huh?
:bravo:
Dammit, how you make me wish I was back in southern Africa, where the grass grows green on the hills and in the valleys, in Zululand, Pondoland, Swaziland, Transkei, Lesotho … like it always has and probably always will. 
I feel sad for Taiwan’s “k-hole” kids. How typical, a natural substance that grows in the earth and the sun gets A-drug treatment here (grave danger, maximum penalty!!), while the horse narcotic gallops free in every single club, every single weekend, that’s apart from afternoons and evenings in the week.
Somebody has to emancipate these poor lost souls from their mental slavery. Unfortunately I’m a bit busy and I also really can’t afford to buy them all tickets out of here.
Or for that matter, donate any of my organs to afford the preposterously expensive MJ in this neck of the woods.
Anyway, like anywhere else, if you know the number and you have the cash, you can get whatever you want. Things are just a bit skewed here, price-wise. There should be regulations, really. It’s scandalous. 
I’m very glad to see this thread has morphed from “don’t smoke weed or they’ll lock you up and throw away the key” to a healthy debate on the use and abuse of soft drugs.
I used to do everthing in the book except heroin and I don’t think I’ve ever done crystal meth, but maybe. At one time I hung out with some pretty liberal minded people.
IMO, weed is no more dangerous than hard alcohol. Heaven knows why it’s illegal in 90% of the world. And the so called “War on Drugs” is almost laughable if not for the thousands of people killed every year. Trying to stop the sale and production of illegal drugs is similar to the prohibition of alcohol in the 1930s: the more it is outlawed, the more the traffickers will earn and the more creative they will get in smuggling it.
I’m sure if, say marijuana was legalized, 30% of the problem would be solved and the world governments would actually earn money by keeping an eye on things. It ain’t rocket science.
Anyway, perhaps I’m going a bit off-topic, but I’ve read a few of these posts from this thread but I still haven’t read a single one coming from a first hand source that says he/she or someone they know was jailed or deported for smoking weed or hash in Taiwan. I’ve been in Asia for almost four years and have yet to hear first hand of any teachers serving time for bud.
I know Taiwan is much more strict about it, but sheesh it drives me crazy to read posts coming from forumosa members that read something along the lines of; “don’t even think about it or you’ll spend three years in jail and get deported after paying a 1 million NT$ fine.”
Perhaps this has happened once or twice, and if indeed it has been posted in this rather long and interesting thread, then I apologise for my rambling. I don’t think the Chinese will ever realise weed is generally no more dangerous than cigarettes or hard alcohol, so they will probably continue to let people believe that they will indeed lock you up and throw away the key for any kind of recreational drug. :s
Anyone see that foreigner dude on the Chinese TV news yesterday getting busted with a home-grow commercial operation? Poor guy even had the TV cameras in his apartment.
Any thoughts on his possible punishment?
A long jail term if found guilty, no question.
Do you really mean that?
Why do you think those drugs prescribed by shrinks are bad?
Are you also opposed to medical-usages of marijuana?
What about other (non-street) drugs such as used to treat physical ailments rather than for recreation or psychological use?
[quote=“Guest 123”]Anyone see that foreigner dude on the Chinese TV news yesterday getting busted with a home-grow commercial operation? Poor guy even had the TV cameras in his apartment.
Any thoughts on his possible punishment?[/quote]
Can anyone provide a link to this story? Thanks.
Do you really mean that?
Why do you think those drugs prescribed by shrinks are bad?
Are you also opposed to medical-usages of marijuana?
What about other (non-street) drugs such as used to treat physical ailments rather than for recreation or psychological use?[/quote]
Yeah, I really mean that, imo, and of personal experience in research and exposing psychiatrist and their drugs. I can go long and long and we might even start a new thread just about that subject.
But the effect of psych drugs are devastating. It is very sad in fact that taking prozac has become such a fad, there is a serious lack of education regarding the consequences of these drugs.
After many years of fighting and after many deaths only recently did the FDA acknowledged the serious side effect of psych drugs and “agreed” to put warning signs on bottles. (just one example)
As for the medical usage of Marijuana I can’t say much since I don’t exactly know what are they really doing with it.
LSD was created by Psychs in the 60’ to “treat” patient and when they found that it wasn’t getting their expected results, they spread it to the man in the street…What a gift!
It is used to lessen the nausea felt by chemo patients.
It is used to relief the tension behind the eyes present in glaucoma patients.
It is used to alleviate the suffering of chronic back pain patients.
It is used to settle the intense synapse activity in ADDS patients.
The oil from the seeds is reputed to have more beneficial effect than cod liver oil.
It can be woven into warm clothing to prevent hypothermia in shock patients.
It can be used to ignore boredom.
It, in parachute form, saved George H. Bush’s life, thereby allowing the world to have such a stellar statesman as George W. Bush.
It can be used to write silly yet factual posts at Forumosa.
Oooops, the knives are on…gotta go.
[quote]It is used to lessen the nausea felt by chemo patients.
It is used to relief the tension behind the eyes present in glaucoma patients.
It is used to alleviate the suffering of chronic back pain patients.[/quote]
OK, maybe I am for if proven true.
Definitly against, since ADDS is a pure invention. Hmmm, can’t wait to see the feedback on that one. 
Nop. Against…:raspberry:
Was nice to meet you Gumper, I’d like to hear more about your project.