Here are some more of those pesky facts…the ones that seem to blow the BS’ers out of the water…consistently.
[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm]Russia tied to Iraq’s missing arms
By Bill Gertz, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
“Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein’s weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.”(excerted from article)[/url]
It just keeps on coming…Kerry is sunk…sunk…sunk.
[url=http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html]IS THIS ALL HE HAS AT THIS STAGE IN THE GAME?
Thursday, October 28, 2004 – 6 days
"Finally John Kerry has decided to face up the reality that there were dangerous weapons in Iraq. Here we are, five days before the election, and now Kerry has figured out that Saddam had weapons that posed a threat. Reports that 380 tons of high explosives disappeared from a storage facility have really ignited a fire in the branches of the Haunted Tree.*
Yesterday this was virtually all Kerry could talk about. Here we are five days before the election, and all this leftist could talk about was this bogus story about 380 tons of explosives that can’t be found. Now … get this: If you are a reporter and you call the Kerry campaign office for a definitive statement as to whether or not it is Kerry’s position that those explosives were still there when American forces arrived, they will tell you that this is not, in fact, Kerry’s position. Than you go listen to Kerry on the stump he will say that those weapons most definitely were there, and that Bush just let them disappear.
A few points:
It’s our troops that Kerry is slamming, not Bush. If the explosives were there, it was the job of our troops to secure them. Bush wasn’t there.
ABC News has a rather interesting report. ABC has a confidential memo from the IAEA which says that inspectors actually documented about three tons of explosives in that facility, not 380 tons. We’ll see if Kerry mentions this discrepancy.
And, as you will read in the next segment, Bill Gertz is reporting that it may well have been the Russians who helped Saddam remove these explosives and move them off to Syria.(excert from article)[/url]
Well, anyway, so much for sKerry’s latest attempt at an “October Surprise”. Looks like it bombed pretty badly, har-har. Is he going to try to pull another one with his wholly-owned campaign subsidiaries at the NYT and “60 Minutes”, or was that their last shot?
[quote=“mofangongren”]MaPoSquid – Flippy wanted information regarding the presence of American troops in April, and I’ve come through for him.
[/quote]
stop lying.
[quote=“Flipper”]mofan, show me one source which states that the weapons in question were at al-qaqaa at any point in time after April 10th, 2003.
once again, you’re making shit up and have NO PROOF to back your assertions. you have absolutely no proof that the weapons ever existed at the site after April 10th, 2003. did i mention you have no proof to back up your arguments?[/quote]
[quote=“Flipper”]what’s that? still no proof? I thought so.
you claim US troops let looters steal 380 tons of weapons and have yet to provide a single shred of proof that those 380 tons of weapons were even there at any pont in time after April 10th, 2003. :bravo:[/quote]
[quote=“Flipper”]here’s a game we can play. how many posts can mofan make without offering a single shred of evidence to back up his argument?
it’s a time honored tactic of desperate people. accuse someone of something without the slightest proof that what you accuse them of was even possible! on the whole of the internet with all the sources of news, you cannot find a single link to establish that the weapons even existed at the compound after April 10th, 2003. and yet you are so sure that they were stolen AFTER April 10th, 2003. 
[/quote]
Flippy, I provided information that explosives were there when the 3rd Infantry passed through on April 3rd. You might not want to own up to it, but I don’t think the 3rd Infantry is trying to lie on this.
Now there are credible reports from Iraqi witnesses that the looting only really started once the U.S. troops had already come and gone.
nytimes.com/2004/10/28/inter … oref=login
'BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 27 - Looters stormed the weapons site at Al Qaqaa in the days after American troops swept through the area in early April 2003 on their way to Baghdad, gutting office buildings, carrying off munitions and even dismantling heavy machinery, three Iraqi witnesses and a regional security chief said Wednesday.
'The Iraqis described an orgy of theft so extensive that enterprising residents rented their trucks to looters. But some looting was clearly indiscriminate, with people grabbing anything they could find and later heaving unwanted items off the trucks.
‘Two witnesses were employees of Al Qaqaa - one a chemical engineer and the other a mechanic - and the third was a former employee, a chemist, who had come back to retrieve his records, determined to keep them out of American hands. The mechanic, Ahmed Saleh Mezher, said employees asked the Americans to protect the site but were told this was not the soldiers’ responsibility.
'The accounts do not directly address the question of when 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives vanished from the site sometime after early March, the last time international inspectors checked the seals on the bunkers where the material was stored. It is possible that Iraqi forces removed some explosives before the invasion.
‘But the accounts make clear that what set off much if not all of the looting was the arrival and swift departure of American troops, who did not secure the site after inducing the Iraqi forces to abandon it.’
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar … Oct28.html
'For the Kerry campaign, a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency to the U.N. Security Council Monday on the missing explosives has buttressed Kerry’s arguments that the Bush administration has mismanaged the war in Iraq, in part by failing to dispatch enough troops to secure sensitive sites and stop looting.
'For the fourth straight day, the Massachusetts senator today flayed Bush over the nearly 380 tons of missing high explosives, saying in Toledo, Ohio, that it was time for Bush to take responsibility for his mistakes.
'“Our troops in Iraq are doing a heroic job,” Kerry said. “The problem is our commander in chief isn’t doing his.” ’
[quote]Iraq Video Shows U.S. Checking Missing Arms, ABC Says
Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) – Explosives that disappeared from Iraq’s al-Qaqaa facility were still present after the U.S.-led invasion, according to ABC News, which aired a videotape shot at the site last year by a network affiliate.
U.S. soldiers are shown breaking into a bunker and then looking into crates and barrels marked ``explosive’’ on the tape from KSTP, a station in St. Paul, Minnesota. KSTP’s crew was embedded with the U.S. 101st Airborne Division when it passed through al-Qaqaa on April 18, 2003, ABC said on its Web site.
Almost 350 tons of high explosives were missing from the facility after April 9, 2003, due to a ``lack of security,’’ the International Atomic Energy Agency said in an Oct. 25 letter to the UN Security Council. The IAEA, which inspected the arms dump before the war, today said a metal seal shown on a bunker door in the tape appears to be the type left by the agency’s inspectors. . .
In the KSTP footage, soldiers are shown using bolt-cutters to break a chain. Soldiers are also seen pointing at what may be an IAEA seal on another bunker. The seal in the footage appears to be an IAEA seal, an assistant at the IAEA press office, who declined to be identified, said in a telephone interview from Vienna. The agency can’t confirm the origin of the seal from the footage, she said.
``The fact that there’s a photo of what looks like an IAEA seal means that what’s behind those doors is HMX,’’ David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security in Washington, said on the tape. Only bunkers that had HMX in them were sealed, he said. [/quote]
quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi … world_news
[quote]The Pentagon says it has destroyed or secured 400,000 tons of the estimated 650,000 tons of munitions in Iraq. Even if 350 metric tons (385 American tons) are missing, does it make much difference?
By this estimate, the whereabouts of at least 250,000 tons of munitions remains unknown. What made the 385 tons different was its type and its location. More than half of it was HMX, a high explosive that - unlike artillery shells or other weapons - can be easily moved around, dropped and jostled without fear of explosion until it is fabricated into a weapon. That makes it well suited for small, powerful bombs; less than a pound of a similar type of high-grade explosives brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988. HMX is also used as the detonator in nuclear weapons, though there is no evidence it has fallen into the hands of anyone with nuclear capability.
Because of its potential nuclear use, and because it was stored at Al Qaqaa, where Saddam Hussein tried many years ago to fabricate the triggering devices for nuclear weapons, the International Atomic Energy Agency put it under special seal . . .
On Friday, the Pentagon said that on April 13, a special ordnance unit went to Al Qaqaa and destroyed 250 tons of explosives. But the Pentagon did not assert it was the same explosives that the atomic energy agency had under seal. On April 18, videotape taken by a Minneapolis television station shows American troops breaking what appears to be an energy agency seal and entering a bunker that contained what former inspectors say is clearly HMX. That unit, according to the station’s cameraman, left the bunker unlocked, and soon left the area. . . [/quote]
nytimes.com/2004/10/30/polit … 6pUmPKBayQ
[quote]Far more ordnance lost in Iraq, sources say
Far more weaponry than the several hundred tons of explosives believed looted from al Qaqaa is missing inside Iraq, sources have said.
WASHINGTON - The more than 320 tons of missing Iraqi high explosives at center stage in the U.S. presidential election are only a fraction of the weapons-related material that has disappeared in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion last year.
Huge amounts of arms and ammunition were stolen from military sites, and there’s ‘‘ample evidence’’ that Iraqi insurgents are firing looted weapons at U.S. troops and using stolen explosives in car bombs and improvised explosive devices, said a senior U.S. intelligence official, speaking on condition of anonymity. . .[/quote]
miami.com/mld/miamiherald/ne … 750.htm?1c
Yes, it is pretty clear now that there is something to this issue after all, and it is not mofangognren trying to smear Bush. 
A few days ago the Pentagon tried to explain that the explosives had been removed prior to the invasion. The offered as evidence satelite photos showing trucks near the compound. Then two things came to light. One, that the trucks weren’t at the right bunkers, (or at least weren’t at one of the right bunkers) and two, a news team had videotaped the bunkers being opened with IAEA seals still on them (as MT links to below).
The Pentagon has now gone from claiming it was highly probably that the explosives were taken before the invasion to saying they are almost certain the explosives were blown up by US troops.
Very convincing. 
Especially if you saw the officer talk who had reputedly blow up the cache. Could he say that he did in fact blow up the cache in question? No. I believe he could not even recal if he had been at Al QaQaa.
Poor guy. He tried his best but really it was a bit of a fiasco.
I wonder if flipper, tigernman and the others will come out now with an apology to mofangongren and MT. This is a real issue now and we won’t know the truth of the matter for many weeks.
Which in and of itself seems to ludicrous. Why don’t we know the status of weapons caches that were well-known before the invasion? Why are there no reports a year and a half later?
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Iraq Video Shows U.S. Checking Missing Arms, ABC Says
Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) – Explosives that disappeared from Iraq’s al-Qaqaa facility were still present after the U.S.-led invasion, according to ABC News, which aired a videotape shot at the site last year by a network affiliate.
U.S. soldiers are shown breaking into a bunker and then looking into crates and barrels marked ``explosive’’ on the tape from KSTP, a station in St. Paul, Minnesota. KSTP’s crew was embedded with the U.S. 101st Airborne Division when it passed through al-Qaqaa on April 18, 2003, ABC said on its Web site. [/quote]
Ooops! You’ve been discredited again! Better luck next time.
[quote=“captainsquartersblog.com”]IAEA Seals In ABC Report Don’t Match Missing Explosives
If you review the pictures on the KSTP web site that has the ABC video everyone is using you can see a very clear picture of a seal with its number (#144322). The PDF document of the UN inspections available show the numbers of the seals and none of them have that number. Therefore, it is clear that the bunkers that ABC videoed were not the ones that held the HMX the UN inspected.
…
UPDATE II: Looking at the IAEA report from its inspection on January 14, 2003, this seal did not cover any of the IAEA materials at Al Qaqaa. Here are the seal numbers that were used to keep the HMX and RDX under wraps:
50/221075 51/221074 59/221073 41/221072 49/221071 35/221076 34/221080 38/361167 37/221087
None of these numbers are even close in sequence to the number shown in the ABC report.[/quote]
Alas, poor Mother Theresa, gone are the days when you can simply bluster and fail to check any facts. Other people can now check them for you and tell you when you are lying as usual.
[quote=“Mucha (Muzha) Man”]Yes, it is pretty clear now that there is something to this issue after all, and it is not mofangognren trying to smear Bush. 
… Then two things came to light. One, that the trucks weren’t at the right bunkers, (or at least weren’t at one of the right bunkers) and two, a news team had videotaped the bunkers being opened with IAEA seals still on them (as MT links to below).[/quote]
See above.
I wonder if Muzha Man, mofogangrene, Mother Theresa, and the others will now come out with an apology to President Bush. It is becoming obvious that this was merely yet another in a long series of falsified partisan attacks against the President which the biased news media is using to try to bring him down.
Get real Squidly. You post some comment from an anonymous Republican blogger and expect that to refute live video footage, admissions from the government, and news reports from ABC, CNN, Reuters, et al. 
Be patient. The evidence is steadily mounting and eventually even your blogger friends will admit the facts.
[quote=“MaPoSquid”][quote=“Mucha (Muzha) (Muzha) Man”]Yes, it is pretty clear now that there is something to this issue after all, and it is not mofangognren trying to smear Bush.
… Then two things came to light. One, that the trucks weren’t at the right bunkers, (or at least weren’t at one of the right bunkers) and two, a news team had videotaped the bunkers being opened with IAEA seals still on them (as MT links to below).[/quote]
See above.
I wonder if Muzha Man, mofogangrene, Mother Theresa, and the others will now come out with an apology to President Bush. It is becoming obvious that this was merely yet another in a long series of falsified partisan attacks against the President which the biased news media is using to try to bring him down.[/quote]
Blow it out your ass, Mapo. My post contains not a shread of critique of Bush. Or does it? Well, you’re such a master debater you show me how I am criticizing Bush with my post.
As for the IAEA seals, strange how the Pentagon did not mention this is the briefing I saw. I guess they just aren’t as clever as the captain. They still seem to think a proper investigation is needed because they aren’t sure where the materials have gone.
Ans yes, it may turn out that they were destroyed. But you guys would still be wrong since you all were so damn sure when the issue was clouded.
The ones playing partisan the worst are you, flipper and tigerman. Sure mafangongren wants to use this to discredit Bush. But it is a serious issue. We know many weapons and even nuclear facilites were looted. This is a real issue. It does nothing to excuse it as partisan snipes at the president.
To paraphrase Tigeman from another thread, your constant attacks against those who raise legitimate concerns about the way this war has been run, makes me believe that you care not about winning the war against terror, but of protecting and re-electing the president.
That’s the way it looks to me, too.
I already showed the completely preposterous nature of MaPoSquid’s hoax. Check out [url]US Presidential Election 2004 V - #157 by twocs
Apparently he didn’t have enough to do, so he chose to pull exactly the same hoax in two threads. Check out my detective work [url=US Presidential Election 2004 V - #157 by twocs Next time, I expect to see an apology from MaPoSquid to me for wasting my time.
double post
[quote=“Mucha (Muzha) Man”]
I wonder if flipper, tigernman and the others will come out now with an apology to mofangongren and MT. This is a real issue now and we won’t know the truth of the matter for many weeks.[/quote]
lol. apologize for asking for proof?
if it’s such a serious issue, why is it ok to come on here and launch attacks on bush for “giving weapons to terrorists” without any evidence?
i agree with you that we won’t know the truth for many weeks and if it is definitively established that the explosives were looted under us watch, i will be back at this thread retracting my statements to the contrary. i will not, however, back off from any statements reflecting the stupidity of this october surprise(the iaea refused to destroy the explosives in 1995 because it didn’t think they were that huge a risk).
and i will definitely not apologize for asking for proof to back up someone’s statements.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]
Either way nothing seems clear about this. Except the politically charged timing of this non-story.[/quote]
Non-story? Are you trying to say that they “need more facts” before announcing this news? You don’t have the right to deny me news stories like this. It should be covered by freedom of the press. This is a completely valid news story that includes facts. What would you rather see the news filled with?
The news agencies should not wait until after the elections to print this news story.
us troops have destroyed or are in the process of destroying [color=red]400,000[/color] tons of weapons siezed in iraq. please tell me what is so urgent about these 377(i’ll concede the generally overstated amount for sake of argument) tons that it merits such huge coverage from the media?
Don’t make the US a land without free press. I’ll carry the first protest sign.