Mormon missionary experience

Arts & Sciences Religion & Spirituality
61

HOW MIND CONTROL WORKS:

TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or “softening up,” specifically through hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: A. Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine activities; C. Decreased sleep; D. Nutritional restriction.

TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person’s social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. (In the forerunner to coercive persuasion, brainwashing, this was rather easy to achieve through simple imprisonment.)

TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An “in-group” language is usually constructed.

TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject’s basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life’s history, and adopt a new version of causality.

TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person’s confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness.

TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.

TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).

[See www.factnet.org]

62

Mother Theresa, what kind of thing is that to post up? How dare you!

There are people who take their faith very seriously and you have no right to insinuate that such an important part of their lives amounts to nothing more than a misguided belief. What the hell would you post that up for? Have you read the beginning of this forum? There are actually ex-missionaries posting here, and wouldn’t it be crazy if those people were still on Segue?! If you want to insult someone’s faith, do it where you are surrounded by people whose religious standpoint you are sure of, and where you stand the least chance of offending total strangers.

I’d like to give you the benefit of the doubt, because you have defended women on other occasions against those who would threaten their integrity:

[quote]LazyMF: ". . . some of these girls are just nasty. "
JGeer: “So many young women and so few fathers. Do you know where your father is right now.”
Holger: “And they moan about us taking their girls. . . rubbish.”

C’mon guys, have a heart. First of all, even if some girls like to get it on that does not mean all girls are sluts. I thought only 12 year-old boys had such delusions. Second, even if a girl likes sex, that does not mean that you should treat her as an object to use as you please with no regard for her feelings.

Even strippers and prostitutes are human beings with feelings and emotions who should be treated with respect. Extreme promiscuity can be the result of sexual or emotional abuse or neglect. Do you really want to batter such victims further? But even if that’s not the case, we’re all human beings doing the best we can with what we’ve got. Show a little compassion.[/quote]

Maybe you could learn a thing or two about ‘compassion’ yourself.

As Mr. Science said:

And just for the record, I follow no religion, and have faith in nothing.

63

I’m not trying to insult anyone. I just happen to believe that the Mormon church is a cult. Check out the website I listed at the end of my message. And check out the various websites for recovering ex-Mormons. BTW, I’m sorry to hear that you have faith in nothing – life must be quite a struggle.

64

I completely respect your opinions, and I myself have little respect for the mormon church and can see the sense in what the site that you linked to claims.
However, I am afraid that you posting that up may offend people. In fact, it most certainly WILL offend any mormon who reads it.

We often find people whinging about Taiwanese people in the forums, and it’s more or less accepted. Why? Because this is a site for foreigners. However it is not a site for people to discriminate against others’ religions. I won’t push this any further, I just think such blatantly inflammatory material is inappropriate.

-Dave

65

Mormons are cool. Without Mormons there would be no Mormon Church, no Mormoni angels, no Mormon Tarbernackle Choir. Leave them alone, they are good guys. Players. THe world is full of diversity, that is what makes it a game. Belief and faith are personal. They hurt no one. Long live the mormon missionaries who come to spread the word of Joey Smith. ISn’t everyone a missionary is one way or another? Leave the damn silly gooses alone. They are cute, white shirts and ties and all, moto cycle hats and all. The world would be a lot less interesting without them. Use your energy to build a more decent life around you, forget the Mormons. Jesus H Christ! And Look what happened to him when he tried to get a life!

66

One of the things that I’ve come to really respect about Taiwanese/Chinese culture is the ability to be quite tolerant of other religions (and I’m not counting the Communist regime of the mainland during the past 50 years in this comment). Taiwanese have a varied belief system, some more Buddhist than others, some more Taoist than others, some with no real religion, some Christian, Muslim, a combination of them all, or whatever … and people seem to accept others very well.

My first university degree was in Religion, and my great-grandmother belongs to a militant religious cult in Montana (Elizabeth Claire Prophet’s “Church Universal and Triumphant”), so I have a little experience in this regard … personally, from my experience with my great-grandmother’s “church,” I would classify Mormonism as a cult. However, like any other group, they’re certainly entitled to their beliefs, although the whole missionary thing is very unpalatable to me. But, they’re certainly not the only missionary group in Taiwan. Anyway …

67

Formosa: If you had any friends or family members who were taken in by a cult you might feel differently. A girl I knew as a child has been living with a cult for 10 years, changed her name, is completely cut off from her family and has donated huge sums of money to the cult. Joining and participating in a cult is not a voluntary thing – it is a result of mind control. I’ve also known my share of Mormons, including a girl in a Mormon family who when she got pregnant by her boyfriend was humiliated, ostracized and thrown out of the church by her supposed friends and family. It was devastating for her. So, I have no regrets if someone’s feelings are hurt when I say that the Mormon church is a cult. Best to hurt someone’s feelings now if it will save someone a mountain of grief.

Does anyone else know someone who was taken in by a cult?

68

About ten years ago there was Buddhist cult here headed by a young female Buddhist nun/monk from Vietnam. The same Taiwanese people here who will not pay a legal professional NT$ 30,000 to NT$ 75,000 to take the City Government to court because their child is being treated unfairly by his/her elementary school and their quote regulations unquote, will however donate over NT$ 100,000 to a Buddhist nun like this, for which they receive a signed photo and a few amulets. These are supposed to solve all problems if you pray hard enough. What a bunch of rubbish.

After the government started investigating this lady’s “claims” of her supernatural powers, she fled the country, taking all her ill-earned gains with her.

In fact, psychological experts have shown that “Results Achieved From Praying” (which some people swear by) are not unique to any particular religious sect. You can pray to the Lord Almighty, to your ancestors, to Buddha, or to a big blue whale in the sky. If you truly believe, the results will be the same.

In my family, of course we pray to Jesus Christ. After all, we have a son, and we don’t want him to be considered a wierdo. Praying to Jesus Christ is acceptable. Even the Buddhists of my acquaintance accept the rationale that my family is westernized and we are Christians. They don’t pressure me to worship Buddha or anything. If I do go to a Buddhist service, of course they accept me at face value, and realize I am only “checking things out” or “looking around.”

69

According to your criteria, my English class qualifies as a cult too.

All this reminds me of arguments about date-rape, the ones that go along the lines of “Was it rape or seduction?” (due to alcohol/drugs, underage, vulnerable, whatever). The anti-cult people insist they were raped, the other side says they just had a bad love-affair that they regretted later.

Yes, the Mormon church and many other churches are manipulative. So are many families. It’s all a mess. I sympathize with people caught up in them, but don’t see any easy way of dividing the sheep from the goats, so to speak.

70

I had a good laugh a few years back by going to a Halloween party as an Evil Mormon, white shirt, dark slacks, tie, bicycle clip, badge etc. Got horribly drunk, smoking, spitting betelnut juice about, swearing in Mandarin and Taiwanese and generally making an asshole of myself. It was funny at the time, but a few years down the line I don’t think these kids deserved my lampooning.
So what if the missionaries are a bit… eager. Even they are cult victims, it’s not your job to de-program them. Mostly they’re nice kids. Live and let live.

No, I’m not Mormon, and I don’t go for proselytising religions, or organized religion as a whole.

71

Cool!
How can I join? Are there rituals? Do you sacrifice virgins? Do you wear special garments?
This sounds fun! :laughing:

What is the name of your cult?

"A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. "
Emo Philips

72

Richard, exactly what was it that nun did that the police thought might have been illegal? Fraudulantly claim supernatural healing powers?

Have you considered a career in Christian apologetics?

:stuck_out_tongue:

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Hello Wolf,

Our cult is called “English Listening and Speaking.” No idea about their virginity (in Turkey they’d have somebody check!). But since you ask, here are our cult practices.

Yep, we do all this except nutritional restriction.

We keep them in class and give them grades.

No Chinese in here! English only!

If I could understand all that, I’d probably do it. Skipping a bit…

English is necessary for your future!

74

Hey Little Buddha,

I AM a flame of violet fire!
I AM the purity God desires!

Heh heh…sound familiar? Yep, I’m familiar with Liz and her late husband, the Ass-Master Lanello. What are they doing these days?

75

Mother Theresa,

I have no idea what you’re talking about as far as cult behavior and the Mormons. I’m very well versed in what cults do to indoctrinate their followers, and I don’t see what connection you’re trying to make in regards to the Church of Latter-Day Saints.

My father was born and raised Mormon. He left as an adult because he couldn’t resolve some of the ideological differences he had with the church. The paternal side of my family are all Mormon (some lapsed, some very strong in their faith). I have read much of their material, and even had some missionaries teach me some of the beliefs to me for a few weeks. When I declined baptism, they were very understanding about it, and non-judgemental.

I’m sorry to read that someone close to you went through what they did. But I have never seen evidence that the LDS should be put in the category you’re suggesting.

That said, the Mormons I’ve met over here have all been very friendly, easy to talk to, and receptive to new ideas. I like to challenge them, and if I do that with an attitude of respect, they have never shown anything but grace.

76

Nice one, Mother Teresa:

“Does anyone else know someone who was taken by a cult?”

Let’s have trial by anecdote.

While you are at it, let’s have:

  1. Has anyone had a bad experience with a taxi driver or something and not, like, got to where they wanted to go?
  2. Has anyone once got sick by eating Chinese food, anywhere? Ever?
  3. Has anyone ever fallen over and hurt themselves in Taipei on a crack in the pavement? Like, really badly and grazed their leg and stuff?
77

The missionary experience for me has been okay, but Hong Kong Phooey much prefers doggie-style.

78

Here’s a real question about Mormon missionaries. I realize you have to wear the white shirt and tie, but what about bike helmets? I have never seen a Mormon missionary without a helmet? Are they required? If not, is there not one Mormon out there that likes to live on the edge a little? If so, isn’t that a little over-protective?

79

Dear Guest,

You objected to my query whether anyone else knew of someone who was taken in by a cult, because you deemed that “trial by anecdote.” I didn’t intend that question as proof that the Mormon church is a cult. I was just curious. But because you prefer facts over people’s accounts of abuse, deception and coercive tactics by cults, here’s a few amusing facts for you:

Did you know that Joseph Smith told others not to drink alcohol, but he drank it on several occasions (History of the Church, vol 6, p 616; HOC, vol 7, p 101) and he had a liquor license to distribute alcohol from his home (HOC, vol 6, p 111).

Did you know that Joseph Smith had several wives (Lucinda Harris, Prescinda Buell, Nancy Hyde, Zina Jacobs, Mary Lightner, Patty Sessions, Fanny Murray) in violation of relevant state law (Illinois) and the church’s Doctrine of the Covenants (HOC, vol 2, p 247).

Did you know that Mormon history states that Joe Smith founded the church in 1830 after being directed by an angel to dig up a set of golden plates which form the basis for the religion but which have conveniently disappeared ( :unamused: ). Or that other “sacred” plates that also form the basis for the religion (the Kinderhook plates) were fraudulently created by a blacksmith and his helpers. The God Makers, Scharffs, p 147.

Did you know that those golden plates purported bore inscriptions describing the history of ancient Hebrews who migrated to America from Jerusalem about 600 bc, and after Jesus died he came to America to preach to those lost tribes ( :laughing: ).

Did you know that according to Mormon history, the ancient Hebrew tribes in America split up and became enemies, the Nephites and Lamanites, and skin of the Lamanites, who were supposedly ancestors of American Indians, turned dark as punishment and a curse by god; but if the Indians would accept Mormonism their skin would turn white again as a reward. Answers to Gospel Questions, (Smith 1961) vol 3, pp 122-3; Journal of Discourses (Richards 1886) vol 22, p 174

Did you know that, contrary to what the above Mormons tell you, tithing 10% of your income to the church is required, not optional. Discourses of Brigham Young (Smith 1978) p 174; Teachings of Lorzeno Snow (Williams 1984) p 155; Gospel Doctrine (Smith 1919) p 225.

Did you know that Brigham Young called blacks “uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low. . . wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the benefits of intelligence. . .” Journal of Discourses, vol 7, p 290.

Did you know that the president of BYU swore, in 1965, that no homosexual would ever be admitted to BYU.

Did you know that, like the Catholic church, the Mormon church has also been plagued with suits for sodomy and sexual abuse of children by its high priests, including a federal suit that it settled in 2001 regarding High Priest Franklin Curtis molesting at least 21 young boys with the knowledge of the church.

Did you know that Mormon missionaries are encouraged to convert people as quickly as possible, lest they have time to think about it and discuss it with friends and family. Teachings of [Apostle] Spencer Kimball (Kimball 1982) p 577.

For these and other fun facts, check out: www.exmormon.org/goodsite.htm

80

Dear Mother Theresa,

Did you know that “Christians” believe in a place that they will go to after death called heaven, and believe that magical beings with wings called “angels” exist?

Did you know that many Buddhists believe that after you die you’ll be reborn into another life–maybe as a different species? And that there are different “gods” floating around?

Did you know that if you look at almost any religious belief you’ll find elements that could be argued are pure fantasy?

Did you know that Catholics hundreds of years ago tortured thousands of people to get them to confess their heresy and die as Christians?

Did you know that religion is above all an exercise of faith?

Did you know that Mormons condemn things like child molestation, the same way that Catholics do, no matter what some errant “servants” of their church have done?

Did you know that Martin Luther was a flaming anti-Semite, and that Lutherans today deplore what he believed?

Do you know that most Mormons can also criticize past practices of their church, and can actually be self-aware, non-destructive, healthy people?

Did you know that if you try hard enough, you can find flaws in anything, and that if you lose all sense of proportion you could whip up an Anti-Lutheran/Catholic/Buddhist campaign?