If you accept that the guy rose from the dead, then getting across the Atlantic isn’t such a big deal.
Can anyone really confirm that they are not to read or post on the Internet while they are here? I have never heard that before, and not to question ‘crazy’, but that sounds bizarre even by Mormon standards.
hmmm…I wonder if I’m the only Mormon here
this thread is compeltely full of misconceptions and fabrications about the Mormon church. There’s lots of people that have a problem with the church and make up stuff about it. Not that I care to tackle every misconception presented…but I’ll clearify a couple things:
Yes, when I was a missionary I emailed family/friends once in a while. sometimes I would even FAX too (does that shock anyone? )
I talked with anyone who wanted to listen (rich, poor, young, old, drunk, etc.) There’s no money in volunteering to be a missionary–we paid our own way.
Didn’t watch too much TV or read too many papers as a missionary–waaaaay too busy (you think learning Chinese is easy? )
someone mentioned sex? not till marriage
Now, I’ll say it again…I didn’t start this thread to discuss the misconceptions about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (aka Mormons). I was curious if there were others that came to Taiwan through their religion…
quote:
Originally posted by Geng: [QB]I talked with anyone who wanted to listen (rich, poor, young, old, drunk, etc.) There’s no money in volunteering to be a missionary–we paid our own way.
[QB]
Are you being deliberately obtuse here? Of course the poster was not inferring that you’re paid to come here as missionaries.
What he meant, of course, is that the missionaries target people with cash money rather than those who do not have the means to contribute to the church.
Or is it just another “misconception” that those who join the Mormons have to give them large amounts of the folding green?
quote:
Originally posted by sandman:Are you being deliberately obtuse here? Of course the poster was not inferring that you’re paid to come here as missionaries.
Sorry…I was just skimming the post and didn’t read it carefully…plus I rmemeber seeing another post where someone thought we got paid.
quote:
What he meant, of course, is that the missionaries target people with cash money rather than those who do not have the means to contribute to the church.
Or is it just another “misconception” that those who join the Mormons have to give them large amounts of the folding green?
Yes that’s another misconception. We talked to anyone who wanted to learn about our faith. There’s no targeting, no money, nada
Oops, my bad.
I was under the impression that those who join the Mormon church are obligated to donate 10 percent of their earnings to the church every year.
Everyone notice that Geng touched on all the issues except the nature of the symbols on the male undergarments and their meaning?
So clear the air, God-boy. You’re wearing them right now so don’t pretend otherwise.
quote:
Originally posted by sandman: Oops, my bad. I was under the impression that those who join the Mormon church are obligated to donate 10 percent of their earnings to the church every year.
Ah, you’re talking about tithing…yes we believe in tithing…obligated? no…you’re free to choose what you do…
sandman- Since you have a negative opinion of churches that send missionaries out I don’t see why you need to have a problem with me personally since I’m a former missionary. I’m Mormon…fine. You’re anti-Mormon…fine. Let’s just leave it at that and get on with the other discussions…
Geng is correct. Missions are spent doing missionary work. No time for reading newspapers, watching TV, etc. This is why they go on missions. All time is spend meeting people from all backgrounds of life. Missionaries move constantly. Usually in an area 3-5 months. If you want to know more, check out www.lds.org or www.mormon.org. Best to go and ask the mormons the details about their religion, not ask others their opinions about the Mormons.
Konglong
PS. Flamers lai ba!
Whoa! Hey! Someone with a relative experience
KongLong- Did you study Chinese before you went to Taiwan? (don’t count the 2 mos. in Utah) Because of your missionary experience…did you continue your Chinese studies? Is that why you’re back in Taiwan?
I probably would have never gone to Taiwan nor learned Chinese had I not been a missionary…
quote:
Originally posted by Konglong:PS. Flamers lai ba!
See…that’s my point…what’s with the personal flames because of my religious beliefs? what gives?
Geng,
I served in the Hong Kong Mission. I had a blast. Living in Asia changed my life. I’m now addicted to studying Chinese and learning about China. After my mission I spent some time in Taipei learning Mandarin. Taipei was fun, but I still prefer Hong Kong.
I’m currently saving money so I can make another trip to Asia. Don’t know where I’ll go, but I’m considering going back to Taipei to study Mandarin some more.
For me, the two weeks I spent in Utah learning Cantonese were very productive. We learned the basics of the Yale Romanization system for Cantonese and it provided a great foundation on which to build upon. There was a great book on Cantonese sounds and tones that I used the entire time I was in Hong Kong. I remember waking up at 5:00AM to listen to the tapes and practice my sounds and tones. Was there a similiar book for Mandarin?
CrazyBoy
No, I didn’t study Chinese before a mission. I had friends that had served, but never did spark my interest. Too busy with school.
Because of my mission, I continued to study and eventually got a BA in it. I am back in Taiwan visiting old friends, taking it easy, and avoiding any English teaching jobs. They won’t help my Chinese improve. More interested in translation and computer related fields.
No matter if I was back in the states, I was still working on Chinese stuff everyday. Spend most of my time with Chinese aquisition. Speeding up the process of Chinese comprehension is so important. Exposure is one of the keys.
Konglong
CrazyBoy- I hope you mean 2 months in Utah? Or did they change it? Anyways, yeah, I got this big fat Mandarin book, but we rarely used it. We used flash cards (1000+ ‘words and phrases’ and 2000 characters). I started making my own when I got through them all. Yeah, learning the romanization and tones and the basic grammer during those 2 mos gave me a good start, but I still felt like I didn’t really start learning Chinese until I got to Taiwan.
Konglong- Yeah, exposure is really important. One thing I’ve noticed is meeting up with other returned missionaries and seeing how quickly the language can be lost if you don’t keep up on it. I could only fit one Chinese class into my college schedule I really wish I could have minored in Chinese. While I do keep up on speaking and reading…my writting has gone way downhill…espically since I rely on NJSTAR or IE to find the char I type (ie I can recogonize it, but can’t write it from memory…).
Geng,
Yeah, I meant two months… We didn’t learn any characters at all until perhaps the very end of the mission because written Cantonese and spoken Cantonese are so different. We just learned vocabulary and sentence structures mostly.
To tell you the truth I’ve forgotten a lot of my Cantonese because I’ve been focusing so much on learning Mandarin. I tried keeping up with my Cantonese while learning Mandarin, but I found I couldn’t keep the two separate. Last time I went to Hong Kong I had trouble just speaking Cantonese and not letting any Mandarin slip out.
Oh the joys of multiple dialect learning =)
CrazyBoy
Mormons are the nicest foreigners in Taiwan. They provide “free” English class all over Taiwan and are willing to help when needed. And I would say most of them speak very good Chinese. I have foreign friends that are not Mormons. They stay longer in Taiwan, but don’t necessarily speak better Chinese. I found lots of Mormons are “truly” interested in pickin gup the language, not just to make their life easy in Taiwan. Happy Chinese Study! 
Okay, I happen to know a thing or two about Mormonism. I think I can set everybody straight.
First, here are a couple of good NON-Mormon sources of information about the Mormons:
If you want to know what the missionaries teach (without having to invite them in), or hear what it’s like to be a missionary from returned missionaries, check out these sites.
Now a few pointers.
The basic belief of Utah Mormonism is that Joseph Smith restored the practices and beliefs of the ancient Christian church, which had been lost over the intervening centuries. Since 1830 he AND HIS SUCCESSORS served as prophets of God. A living prophet trumps a dead one–and so the current authorities of the church can overrule (and have overruled) even Smith.
Although Joseph Smith’s major work was the Book of Mormon (about the lost tribes of Israel migrating to the Americas), this is not the major source of Mormon doctrine. Most distinctive Mormon beliefs come from later revelations.
Smith made several attempts to found Mormon communities, and was assassinated. His followers scattered. One group followed Brigham Young to Utah, another became the “Missouri Mormon” branch called the Reformed LDS, or today, the Community of Christ.
Smith secretly taught polygamy, but denied doing so. The Utah Mormons accepted it until 1894, when they banned it under U.S. pressure. (The Missouri Mormons never accepted it, unaware that Smith was a practitioner.) Today a number of “fundamentalist” Mormon groups, usually out of communion with the main group (to the extent that they practice openly), practice polygamy. Their opponents accuse them of child molesting, since some of their wives are underaged and possibly unwilling. Again, this has nothing to do with the major branch of Mormonism that sends missionaries to your door.
Besides regular church services, Utah Mormon men with priestly ordinances (i.e. most of them) who have managed to avoid major sin, participate in temple rituals. These are often said to have been inspired by Masonic ritual. Initiates are not allowed to discuss what goes on in them, though the text of the rituals has made it onto the internet.
“The garment” (i.e. Mormon underwear) is a part of the temple ordinance. If you really want to see it, here’s a link:
nowscape.com/mormon/undrwrmo.htm
And here is some information on what it all means:
htttp://www.mrm.org/articles/garments.html
Awhile back I even found historical illustrations showing the evolution of “the garment” from the 19th century. Oh well. You’ll have to be satisfied with this guy for now.
The most interesting parts of Utah Mormon theology are the aspects which outsiders rarely think to ask about. For example, Utah Mormons are polytheistic. They accept the existence of multiple gods.
Why is that? Look at it this way: Where do babies come from? Two people marry and have babies. But that only accounts for the babies’ bodies–what about their souls? Where do they come from? The answer is, from the spiritual marriage (as opposed to a merely physical union) of two people. “Our Heavenly Father” is literally just that–our father. This explains the Mormon emphasis on family life, and marriage in the temple (for “time and eternity” rather than “til death do us part”).
A man thus married goes on to become the God of another world, making spirit children with his wife (or wives). The Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are married (no, not to each other!) and have plural wives.
All holders of priestly ordinances (again, this means almost all Mormon men) have the gift of prophecy–for their sphere of responsibility. For example, a father may prophesy on behalf of his family, but not on behalf of the entire church (unless he has been called to that office).
If you want to see a funny anti-Mormon comic, click here:
chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp
The same author considers the Masons and Catholics to be devil-worshippers, so consider the source.
Meanwhile the Community of Christ (Missouri Mormons) have always rejected such exotic beliefs as polytheism and spirit marriage, and recently have even called into question the literal truth of the Book of Mormon (since it is anthropologically improbable). Instead they have come to resemble “peace churches” like the Quakers or Mennonites.
After all that, are Mormons Christians? That depends on what you mean by “Christianity.” They certainly say they are Christians, and venerate Christ and the Bible. Indeed, their whole history can be seen as a reiteration of biblical themes. But other Christians often reject these similarities as insufficient. To them, Mormonism is a type of heresy.
Are Utah Mormons a cult? That depends on what you mean by “cult.” Certainly they are not a democracy (neither are the Catholics), and they do have a vigorous system of tithing (ten percent, plus donations for the poor) and checking-up on one another’s lifestyle. On the other hand, they are well known for their “clean living” and family values. Perhaps more of us should belong to such cults.
On a personal note, although I am not and have never been any kind of Mormon, I think Mormons are great.
Hey all you Mormons, any of you know if David Allred (Hong Da-wei) is here? Blond guy, about 30, used to live in Indiana…?
Sorry, but the reason the English lessons are free is so they get the chance to convert you. Having an ulterior motive like that is not what I’d call “nice”. Real “nice” doesn’t expect anything in return or have a manifest destiny-type motive. Sure, they’re “truly” interested in picking up the language, because that makes it “truly” easier to influence you.
Memo to the two Mormon dudes that have been buzzing around my building: Find another neighborhood. This is a WASM-free zone.
A lot of people really don’t like the missionaries. Obviously you’re reacting to what they represent as much as any actual behavior on their part. If I smile and say hi, that’s one thing, but if a missionary smiles and says hi, you think “Oh God, there they go again, trying to convert everybody!”
Try to see them for what they mostly are: basically normal young men going through a rite of passage. It’s a bit like the army, with boot camp to teach normal teenagers how to dress and act like that.
They spend their own money (or their family’s) to come here and live for two years. Why? Partly because it’s expected in their culture, partly from genuine religious devotion. They will remember these years all their lives, for better or worse.
And it’s not easy. They’re very restricted in how they live and what they do. They can’t date, and always travel in pairs. They’re busy, and work under a lot of pressure to get people baptized. Add to this financial problems, or a girlfriend back home, or weird interpersonal problems, or just loneliness.
Some of them are spiritual seekers themselves, and hope to receive “a testimony” through teaching others. Sometimes they have a crisis of faith. Sometimes they leave, or think about leaving.
And always in the background, they live with the knowledge that a whole lot of people don’t like them, or think of them solely as objects of humor.
If you’re uncomfortable with religion, or with Mormonism in particular, try to put yourself in the shoes of someone for whom this is a vital part of their life. Look past the shirt and tie, to the human being inside. Smile back!
[quote=“Mr. Science”]
They spend their own money (or their family’s) to come here and live for two years. Why? Partly because it’s expected in their culture, partly from genuine religious devotion. They will remember these years all their lives, for better or worse.
And it’s not easy. They’re very restricted in how they live and what they do. They can’t date, and always travel in pairs. They’re busy, and work under a lot of pressure to get people baptized. Add to this financial problems, or a girlfriend back home, or weird interpersonal problems, or just loneliness.
If you’re uncomfortable with religion, or with Mormonism in particular, try to put yourself in the shoes of someone for whom this is a vital part of their life. Look past the shirt and tie, to the human being inside. Smile back![/quote]
Why should I feel sorry for them? They CHOOSE to do it. These guys are over 18. If the religion’s so great, why are they being pressured to get people baptized?