If you still don’t understand the address, you can test the likely combinations to check if the address is correct here:
I called back today to check if they received the email and they did so all is well. 
Thanks for that email address though a lot of Taiwanese people I speak to on the phones are not so great at English it seems.
Hi everyone, this is a great community. I’ve enjoyed reading the discussions and learning about living in Taiwan, off and on, because I periodically revisit the idea of relocating. I apologize for taking a short cut here and just presenting the particulars of my story.
I am a Taiwan-born US citizen living in Atlanta, Georgia with a non-Taiwanese husband and 3 kids (aged 7, 5, 3). I want to move back to Taiwan and if I were only responsible for myself, I’d be back already. My parents and brother are in Taipei/Yungho. I wish to be near my family and I’d like the kids to know that side of their background and pick up Chinese. Heck I’d like to know that side of my background. My parents raised me in NY and moved back to Taiwan in 2000. I came to the US when I was 7 and I went to mostly white schools. My Chinese isn’t great. My listening and speaking skills are decent, but my reading and writing skills are minimal, although I should improve a lot if I lived there. My husband is very open minded about moving and living in a different culture. He enjoys standing out anyway. I visit every other year with the kids so they’re familiar with Taiwan.
Questions about moving to Taiwan:
(1) My husband has no Chinese skills. He’s a Project Manager in IT at a big US company. His career is in very good shape right now so it’s tough to throw that away, esp considering we plan to return to the States at some point and we definitely need his income over here. He has worked overseas (a few months in Bangkok, Germany, Jakarta) so he has a fairly good idea of what he’s getting himself into in terms of adjusting to a local culture. A problem with his situation is that he has no college degree, just a whole lot of work experience. What are his work options in Taiwan and what are ways he can improve his chances of staying in his field? How critical is knowing Chinese and how much proficiency is sufficient for living, working, etc?
(2) What should I expect in terms of public schools for my kids? I know each child will adjust on their own schedule - my brother and I had different experiences coming to the US. How much do local schools accommodate non-Chinese speakers? Will the regular curriculum be significantly more difficult for a kid coming from the US - I’m thinking math specifically? I worry mostly about my almost 2nd grader. She exhibits some ADD/ADHD behavior at school and I don’t know how that is dealt with in schools in Taiwan. Some examples are she has trouble sitting still, she chews on her hair/clothes when she’s bored or nervous, she has trouble focusing and completing tasks. She tests well and is in the gifted program. She tells us she doesn’t like school. We have trouble getting her to do homework. She’s a handful here for her very patient teachers, so based on what I remember about my year in 1st grade in Taipei, I feel like this could be the dealbreaker for moving. She seems to have exactly the wrong set of behavioral issues for Taiwan’s education system or am I being too general?
(3) Can I assume I can pick up a job teaching English? Would I be able to support a family on that income if my husband took some time to find a job or perhaps studied Chinese? I have a degree in Finance, but I’ve been a stay at home mom for about 6 years. So, while working in Finance would be ideal, I don’t expect to land a Finance job. I actually picked up a part-time job at Costco 2 years ago, so I could probably request a transfer, but I don’t know much about Costco’s operations in Taiwan. It’s another avenue to explore since they plan on adding stores. Do the teaching contracts require that I work through the summer?
(4) What is our status for living in Taiwan? I have a valid ROC passport. Am I a full Taiwanese citizen or are there things I need to do to attain that status? According to the FAQ on the Bureau of Consular Affairs, my kids can apply for ROC passports. So they’re Taiwanese citizens? All the same rights and conveniences? From reading some of the posts, my husband can get a resident visa through me. How much time (and blood, sweat, and tears) does this take? How do I establish my houkou? If/when we return to the US, is there anything special we need to do? We are all US citizens.
I don’t mind challenges and uncertainty but I want to go into this with a better idea of what to expect. Any feedback would be much appreciated, especially on anything I’ve overlooked. I have more questions, but these are the biggies. I’m sure you have seen the same type of questions many times before so pointing me to another discussion would be great too. Thanks!
quote=“imatwinkie” What should I expect in terms of public schools for my kids? I know each child will adjust on their own schedule - my brother and I had different experiences coming to the US. How much do local schools accommodate non-Chinese speakers? Will the regular curriculum be significantly more difficult for a kid coming from the US - I’m thinking math specifically? I worry mostly about my almost 2nd grader. She exhibits some ADD/ADHD behavior at school and I don’t know how that is dealt with in schools in Taiwan. Some examples are she has trouble sitting still, she chews on her hair/clothes when she’s bored or nervous, she has trouble focusing and completing tasks. She tests well and is in the gifted program. She tells us she doesn’t like school. We have trouble getting her to do homework. She’s a handful here for her very patient teachers, so based on what I remember about my year in 1st grade in Taipei, I feel like this could be the dealbreaker for moving. She seems to have exactly the wrong set of behavioral issues for Taiwan’s education system or am I being too general?[/quote]I think “exactly the wrong set of behavioral issues for Taiwan’s education system” nails it. Large class sizes, lots of extra classes, lots of ‘keep your butt in the seat’, and little tolerance for wondering minds. Should you come, choose your child’s school carefully.
[quote=“imatwinkie”]
(2) What should I expect in terms of public schools for my kids? I know each child will adjust on their own schedule - my brother and I had different experiences coming to the US. How much do local schools accommodate non-Chinese speakers? Will the regular curriculum be significantly more difficult for a kid coming from the US - I’m thinking math specifically? I worry mostly about my almost 2nd grader. She exhibits some ADD/ADHD behavior at school and I don’t know how that is dealt with in schools in Taiwan. Some examples are she has trouble sitting still, she chews on her hair/clothes when she’s bored or nervous, she has trouble focusing and completing tasks. She tests well and is in the gifted program. She tells us she doesn’t like school. We have trouble getting her to do homework. She’s a handful here for her very patient teachers, so based on what I remember about my year in 1st grade in Taipei, I feel like this could be the dealbreaker for moving. She seems to have exactly the wrong set of behavioral issues for Taiwan’s education system or am I being too general? [/quote]
They’ll be behind on their Mandarin and they’ll find the switch to the formal, rote learning style to be quite the contrast with the US system. That is unless you want to pay all of your possible English teaching salary on educating them at a US type of school. I can understand coming back for professional reasons or for family reasons, but switching your kids to this system could very well be negative for them.
You probably can, but will make between 40-50K unless you work family unfriendly hours. And that isn’t much of a salary for a family of five. Unless you can count of significant family help with money or have lots of savings, I wouldn’t make the trip if I were you.
I think you should know Taiwan well enough for the education part to be self-explanatory.
As for earning a living here, your husband would have work rights through his marriage to you. There are few high paying IT jobs in Taiwan, especially for foreigners with no Chinese. He might be able to do online project based work. Or he could consider running his own business which is vey different to working for a multinational, but it might be interesting for him too.
Supporting your family in Taiwan on only your expected salary would be very difficult unless you have a pile of savings and let them go to the local schools. But it is a bit late for them to join due to learning Chinese issues let alone the ADD issue you have mentioned.
I think your husband would have to work out something and you have a fighting chance of making the move back.
If you husband could work for a foreign company in Taiwan, then it might include an educational allowance. International schools here are not cheap, and even the best local-style private schools would be a bit tough for your kids to adapt to, although not impossible. I think you’re husband should see what he can pre-arrange here instead of just showing up.
Cost of living here, for your family, for a good quality of life:
Accommodation: 35,000 NTD / month
Food, utilities and transportation: 35, 000 NTD
Right there, that’s a teacher’s salary.
Other things like a car, education, savings and investment would have to come out of another salary.
I think the Taipei American School is about 500,000 NTD per year per student, so that’s at least another 1.5million, call that 125,000NTD per month. Even if your hubby got a good job as a senior project manager he wouldn’t be pulling in that much.
You guys would need a combined income of at least 200,000 NTD after tax to make it American style here, unless you got a special break like a free house, subsidized education. Even that might be a bit tight, and hurt your savings in the long run.
There might be some way to do it, but it’s a bit tricky, unless you put the kids into the local school system, which is something you’d have to think long and hard about, or did homeschooling.
If anybody out there finds any inaccuracies in my post, please let me know.
Thank you all for the responses. My concerns about public schools are justified then. That’s too bad! My mom said they have improved, but I guess she means from when she was a student. We could potentially pay for private school for our oldest, or even homeschool (but that cuts into income earning time), and send the younger ones to public school. They do not have the same learning problems, as far as we can tell anyway. Who knows though? They’re young enough to pick up Chinese before starting formal elementary school, if we go in the next year. I do not take the view that the education methods in Taiwan are wholly bad, given that in US I feel we get a bit too much self-esteem building and not enough learning. I certainly won’t be sending them to buxibans till 9pm every night and weekends and my expectation for their academic performance will certainly not be high compared to local standards. The point is to get some Taiwanese life in them.
There are some health and inheritance issues my parents are dealing with, so my mom wants some help. That’s the reason I’ve been looking into this again. The insight into income requirements and my husband’s job search is very helpful. It’s so different when we have a family to support! I see in the other threads where an individual wants to come and everyone says, oh just come, you’ll be fine! Ah, to be so carefree again! I may get some family support, housing-wise and money-wise. My mom has a huge network in Taipei, so while I know it isn’t a sureshot for anything, it goes a long way. She’s taught English a few years back and currently teaches Chinese at NTU. She seems to think it could work for us to return and she’s fairly cautious when it comes to money. Her big concern is that my husband only eats pizza so how will he survive? So either she thinks she’s footing some of the bill or she thinks the money equation will work (though her assumptions about our lifestyle might be off). I don’t think she’s blinded by her wish to get us back, bc she’s actually pretty reluctant to say she wants the help. She’s always discouraged us before based on her reservations about my husband’s ability to adjust.
Anyways, I really appreciate the feedback. The public school and husband’s job issues are just about as bad as I thought they’d be.
By no means is it a simple or painless task, but plenty of expat kids adapt to the local school system. Two Indian brothers go to the elementary school near my place. I’ve talked to their father before and he says that getting them a Chinese tutor for a few months before putting them into the local school helped them catch up well enough, though they still get teased sometimes for being different - your kids would have the benefit of being less obvious targets for racist little brats due to being half Taiwanese.
Hi,
If you are open to homeschooling at least for your oldest child, you could look at the homeschooling network here in Taiwan. They are a nice group of very helpful people. I posted information on my blog http://www.kidzone-tw.com, with some links. Talking to some of the group could help you make you a decision either way on that path.
You never know, maybe your daughter will enjoy the test-oriented education of Taiwan. The extra challenge of learning the language might put a fire under her. It’s so hard to know how kids will adapt to a new environment.
I think it’s harder because your husband has such a good job right now. I am in a similar position, in that I would like to go back to NZ, but I could not ask my husband to give up the job he so enjoys right now to do so, and we are not williing to spend many months apart when the kids are so young. It is SO much more complicated with a family!
Anyway, all the best with your decision-making. I really feel for you.
You need to get some people who actually have kids in the local system to comment. From what they have said over the years, and what I observed when I was teaching, the schools have changed a lot, but only at the elementary level. Which of course is where your kids are going. Schools vary of course but they are not test driven soul destroying boot camps at the earlier grades.
[quote=“BigJohn”]If you husband could work for a foreign company in Taiwan, then it might include an educational allowance. International schools here are not cheap, and even the best local-style private schools would be a bit tough for your kids to adapt to, although not impossible. I think you’re husband should see what he can pre-arrange here instead of just showing up.
Cost of living here, for your family, for a good quality of life:
Accommodation: 35,000 NTD / month
Food, utilities and transportation: 35, 000 NTD
Right there, that’s a teacher’s salary.
Other things like a car, education, savings and investment would have to come out of another salary.
I think the Taipei American School is about 500,000 NTD per year per student, so that’s at least another 1.5million, call that 125,000NTD per month. Even if your hubby got a good job as a senior project manager he wouldn’t be pulling in that much.
You guys would need a combined income of at least 200,000 NTD after tax to make it American style here, unless you got a special break like a free house, subsidized education. Even that might be a bit tight, and hurt your savings in the long run.
There might be some way to do it, but it’s a bit tricky, unless you put the kids into the local school system, which is something you’d have to think long and hard about, or did homeschooling.
If anybody out there finds any inaccuracies in my post, please let me know.[/quote]
$35,000 NTD for food, utilities and transportation for a family of 5? I think that’s a bit optimistic. As well as $35,000 NTD per month for a comfortable, big enough house/condo/apartment for a family of 5 to live in. Although I guess it really depends on where you live and how far away you want to deviate from the standard of living you’re used to in the US. In Taipei, that amount of money wouldn’t be nearly enough. Of course, if you lived in a less populated area where things were cheaper, I would think the pay would be less as well.
If your husband has a well-paying job back home and he got to his position without a degree, and put in the years of work and time … I would find it very risky to just give it all up to live in another country for awhile and hope for him to find another job that paid nearly as well when you guys come back. Jobs are still extremely scarce in the US, and things won’t change that drastically in 5, 10 years. You have 3 children’s futures to think of. Like what everyone else is saying, I would definitely pre-arrange jobs here for both you and your husband before you come back.
I wish you the best! Good luck!
I typed up a whole message and then it wouldn’t let me post.
so to sum up: I don’t think it’s a good idea, in fact, I think it’s selfish on your part. No malice in that statement, just being honest.
Public school in Taiwan = thumbs down … the alienation and language barrier alone would be terrifying for young kids, not to mention that they have to adapt to system of learning that really has no time for critical thinking (memorize this book, accept it as fact).
You’ve asked your husband and I’m sure he’s supporting but think if this is what he really would want, or if he’s just laying down for you. In these economic times (which are worldwide … it’s not like taiwan was unaffected) nothing is for certain and if you have a good career job that can provide for an entire family, then there better be a damn good reason to leave it.
I get that your roots and culture are important to you … but I would suggest first enrolling your kids in some chinese schools. My friends all did this growing up, they learn culture and language (there are taiwanese schools as well, it’s not all mainland … probably less mainland) and they got to choose the amount of participation they wanted, rather than being forced into a harsh environment that they may not want/may not be able to adapt to.
Take them on summer trips to taiwan to live with your relatives, I’m sure they would welcome you with open arms, Taiwanese people are so kind and generous, I don’t think you’d have any trouble, especially with your own family. Introduce them to the culture/language this way … let them decide how much they want to be involved. Giving them a choice is the best thing you can do for them. And think about what is really best for everyone, without asking them.
[quote=“jmlewis”] In these economic times (which are worldwide … it’s not like taiwan was unaffected) nothing is for certain and if you have a good career job that can provide for an entire family, then there better be a damn good reason to leave it.
[/quote]
I am in a similar perdiciment, the only difference is that I’m single.
I have a good career job in an insurance company at the moment, but want to go back to Taiwan to open a small business that may or may not be successful, or try to get into a professional career path in Taiwan.
Tough decisions, and even tougher when you have a family. Before the economic crash, I wouldn’t have even given it a second thought. In my opinion, most companies are making cash hand over fist in this so called “poor economy” but are only using it as an excuse to overwork workers, refuse pay increases, and make the worker feel that they “owe it” to their boss for their job. But what can you do.
My wife and I have had similar circumstances through the years. We have toyed with it many times over the years, but circumstances dictated otherwise. As the kids get older, they are harder to shift educational regimes. I will say however, that the educational environment has substantially improved since we were there from what we see with my nieces and nephews. Though it is still more rigid than the US system. Of course, your husbands job may make things difficult.
However, if your concern is language and exposure to culture (and getting to know family, etc), you might try what we have done with our kids. My wife usually goes back for a few months each year kids in tow. At the younger ages, there Chinese will improve if only by exposure to family. This is especially easy in the early school years when you can cut off a few weeks here or there around summer vacation or winter break. My wife has done this when she needed to help her Mom with some medical issues.
Best of luck.
To imatwinkie: I can’t comment on your career-related questions. However, with regards to your kids’ education, you don’t need to be pessimistic of the future or fearful that they wouldn’t be able to adapt here, etc. Since your kids are still very young and your oldest child is only seven, I’m pretty sure they will adapt to the new environment and language faster and more smoothly than you think. Don’t be discouraged from so-called “culture shock”. I think that effect is really overstated, especially in today’s interconnected world.
However, the schooling aspect will become more of problem the longer you wait. Citing myself as an example, my parents moved back to Taiwan (from Europe) in 1980 when I was 8 years old. I went to visit third grade of a Taipei elementary school having no Mandarin skills whatsoever before that. I had no problem adapting to the environment and finding friends, etc since the language barrier diminshed within a few months (besides all my extended family was living in Taiwan at the time). My brother who was 12 at the time also adapted well language-wise, however his experience at a junior high school in Taipei was a bad one (remember that was in 1980, a very different Taiwan from today where there was still corporal punishment for failing a test, etc). In the end, it was pretty pointless for my brother to stay in the public school system. As a consequence, we moved back to Europe only one year after what you may call a “failed experiment”. I will never know for sure how I would’ve coped with the schools in Taiwan if I had stayed on and completed elementary school there. But at the end of that year I had a working knowledge of Chinese and I believe I would probably have assimilated to become just another local student, maybe repeating a school year to catch up with Mandarin.
My whole point here is, don’t underestimate your kids’ ability to adapt to a new environment and language. I believe that at age 7 your oldest child will be able to cope with the elentary schools here and adapt quickly. You will have to make a decision later on whether to send your kids to an international (American) school in Taiwan after elementary school or not or whether to continue living in Taiwan at all. But that’s in another 5 years or so. I don’t think you are selfish at all in thinking to move to Taiwan for your kids. Even if it’s just for a couple of years, I think your children’s life will be hugely enriched by this experience and they will be grateful to you forever as I am grateful to my parents for that one year stay in Taiwan some 30 years ago.
@ GC Rider, thanks for sharing your experiences. I did the same coming to the US; at age 7, I adapted within 6 months language-wise, ie enough to get by, and eventually got into the highest reading group. I have a few memories of not speaking English but they were not traumatic, more like, I don’t know what was said but I was fascinated by someone’s blond hair. I remember a kid bullying my brother and me at the playground and took our shoes. But I was more worried about accounting for the shoes to my mom than the bully. I found the language transition to be fairly seamless. My little cousins who spoke no English at home were speaking English within 2 weeks in Kindergarten (granted K doesn’t require a ton of language skills). The plan would be to return for high school or earlier. Thank you also for addressing the earlier selfish comment. I’ve been thinking a lot about that - it’s a fair take (and I took no offense). It’d a major life upheaval to move the kids and the pros and cons of it we may never know till after it’s done. So thank you for taking the opposing view that the kids stand to benefit. I feel the same way. The acquisition of Chinese is valuable as is having a greater worldview and developing a stronger bond with their relatives in Taiwan. Trust me, it is no pro for me to live among 4 miserable people, and having caused their misery at that.
@jmlewis, I do appreciate your view on this. Most people think this is nuts. It’s not something I hatched up in a day, though. My husband and I have been talking about this for many years. It has always been easier and made more sense to stay put, so we have. Right now I have the combination of my mom needing help and my kids getting older gnawing at me. My mom needs help for the management of my dad’s care - he had a stoke 3 years ago and is slowly rehabilitating under her care - and with the legal mess that’s been brewing for about the same time, where my dad’s parents do not have a will and yet my grandfather has been in a vegetative state for 10 years and my grandmother’s health, at 83, is starting to fail, while my aunt is muscling her way into all of the assets. My mom wants nothing to do with it but she doesn’t want to assume the financial burden of my dad’s care (he’s only 61) with her own retirement money. What a f-ing mess. She’s already drained emotionally from my dad’s situation. My brother did move back, but he barely takes enough trouble for his own upkeep, let alone help my mom. How can I help, with 3 kids and all our problems going back? I haven’t the foggiest, except she says she can’t do it anymore on her own. I suppose we would share our burdens - she helps me deal with a teacher and I help with my dad’s physical therapy? She helps me figure out medical insurance and I go with her to court when my aunt changes the lock again at my grandmother’s condo? The Taiwan that awaits me is not all fun and nightmarkets! It may still be considered selfish on balance if we weighed all the pros and cons, but there are just too many angles. Do I really want to give up being a stay-at-home mom with a big house and a minivan and nice teachers and not a crowd anywhere and we have no language problems and the AC is on all the time? Actually…yeah I do. I will admit to the selfish notion that I find my life boring. You may call me spoiled and ungrateful, but I go back to Taiwan every other year with the kids and we all love it. We don’t even do much, because it’s hard taking 3 young kids anywhere, but I feel connected and like there is so much life outside. My view now is a bunch of nice green lawns and not a soul outside. We used to live in the city but cities here come with crime and crappy schools. It could be just a personality thing. I crave the mess of Taipei whereas others prefer serenity.
[quote=“Shearersheed”]Hey I need some quick advice, I think I have fucked up. My girlfriend said the landing free visitor visa is not a tourist visa. I thought it was a tourist visa.
Shit. I really think I have made a huge mistake. I thought you could change your visa over.
Can someone please clarify this for me asap.[/quote]
I’m not 100%, but I remember something a year or two back where they changed the law that you can’t change a visa in Taiwan. To do that (once it reaches expiration) you need to do a visa run to Hong Kong.
Perhaps someone else has better news for you…
Visa-exempt means you don’t have any kind of visa, so how would you possibly be able to “change” something that doesn’t exist?
You’ll need to leave the country – Hong Kong, probably – and get a visitor visa there. That CAN be exchanged for a resident one, assuming that you get a job that will sponsor you or get married.
However, you’ll first need to get your job sorted out and get documentation from them that they are sponsoring you, otherwise you’ll end up in Hong Kong being refused a visitor visa (because Brits don’t NEED a visa to visit Taiwan any more and you can’t tell them that you need a visitor visa so that you can find work because of course its illegal to work on a visitor visa.)
Relax Tiger. A visa run to HongKong is a piece of cake. Read this thread: