My 11yr old daughter is being sued - can you believe it ?!

[quote][quote=“Miranda”]Someone suggested the Apple Daily. Would you like me to make the phone call? I’m serious.[/quote]I would be happy for you to try if you felt it would do some good - we did write to the Apple Daily ( think we tried calling - but never found the right person )

[quote]Tried the SCMP?[/quote] Not so sure that has much readership over here ?

I agree, if making a mockery of them was possible, it would give us a lot of satisfaction after the other party’s behaviour and it might do some good

I think you should talk to a local attorney before you do anything.

We have already spoken to all manner of local legal people here, Judges, Lawyers, Prosecuters and they have made it clear that law here favours the irresponsible riding of a motorcycle - this is one reason the accident rate/ death rate is one of the highest in the world !

So I guess the local attorney would advise that we were likely to get ourselves more into more trouble and the other party would probably launch another case against us !

[quote=“morley”]We have already spoken to all manner of local legal people here, Judges, Lawyers, Prosecuters and they have made it clear that law here favours the irresponsible riding of a motorcycle - this is one reason the accident rate/ death rate is one of the highest in the world !

So I guess the local attorney would advise that we were likely to get ourselves more into more trouble and the other party would probably launch another case against us ![/quote]

Well, I don’t know about any of that. However, I don’t think that the other party could initiate another suit against you. You do have the right to appeal. My point was that you should make certain that there is a good reason to appeal before doing so. If an attorney advises you that the lower court’s decision is likely to be upheld on appeal, then by appealing you would probably only be adding to your expenses.

I still think this would be a good story in any newspaper:

11-year Old Girl Run Over, Forced to Compensate Driver

Any editor would take that one.

Saw a story in the Apple Daily the other week about a 17-year old high school student seduced by her teacher who was forced to pay the teacher’s wife compensation for the adultery. Good eh? A man goes and nobs a 17-year old and the wife gets a prog of money!

It’s a maaaan’s world here that’s for sure.

[quote][quote=“Miranda”]I still think this would be a good story in any newspaper:

11-year Old Girl Run Over, Forced to Compensate Driver

Any editor would take that one[/quote][/quote].

I’d very much like to do what I can to get this story out into the public eye to see what the greater sensus of opinion is and get some more the ridiculous, immoral events out for discussion - as this seems to be the only avenue left for me.

Do you know any editors that I can talk to ? If they can speak some English it would help, but I guess we can get over it if they can’t.

Many thanks

morley,

I’m not trying to give you a diffiult time. Just the opposite.

What do you expect (or hope) to obtain/achieve by taking this story to the media?

Tigerman good point - what do I/we hope to achieve from taking this story to the media now that the case is just about closed -

  1. The other party may have got some of their money, their main motivation - but it would give us great satisfaction to have the shamed over this - the mother and daughter are teachers - most people including the other parties University teachers & vice principle have seemed surprised !

  2. My 11yr old daughter was told by the judge that she was 100% in the wrong ( I made a mistake about the 70% 30% ) then she had to hand over NTD 65K in person to the other party. This burns me up ! I can not believe the whole legal profession here can act in such an uncivilised fashion and encourage irresponsible behaviour. Perhaps the right line of thought can be given the opportunity to air itself further - I understand from my research that at higher levels the laws involved here are being reviewed to come further in line with international law.

  3. I would like some good to come from this, perhaps it could be a little catalyst for change, in terms of getting people to ride or drive with a little bit more care when they realise how many kids/people are hurt this way - I don’t expect people to stop ridng on the pavements etc overnight - just when they do they ride with a little more care and don’t hurt someone like they nearly did sat pm ie just missed my 5yr old daughter whilst driving on the pavememt in the dark without lights !

This may open a can of worms or do some good or just waste time - what do you think ?

Morley, I understand your frustration. People drive like shit in Taiwan, your daughter was hit by one of those lousy drivers, was scared and injured, and you’ve had to suffer the humiliation of losing at trial as well as having to pay $ to the jerk who hit your girl. I do feel for you.

And yes, the outcome sounds crazy the way you tell it. But, YC had a good point when he mentioned the concept of contributory negligence that often applies in courts in the US and elsewhere. Just because the other guy was on a motor vehicle and your daughter was on foot doesn’t necessarily absolve her of all responsibility. Here are excerpts from a few US cases that suggest the result may not be as crazy as it seems:

[quote]This is an action for alleged wrongful death brought by . . . the mother and sole surviving heir of one Carl Brown, an adult, who, while crossing East El Camino Avenue in North Sacramento shortly after midnight on the morning of May 16, 1945, was struck and killed by a car being driven by defendant Frank Fat. Defendant’s answer denied negligence and alleged contributory negligence. Plaintiff has appealed from the judgment entered . . . in favor of the defendant and from the order denying her motion for a new trial. . .

The record conclusively shows . . . that decedent was dressed in dark clothing; that he was not crossing at an intersection but was jaywalking, and therefore . . . was contributorily negligent. . .

The judgment and order from which appellant appeals are affirmed.[/quote]
online.ceb.com/CalCases/CA2/86CA2d823.htm

[quote]This is an appeal from a judgment for plaintiff. . . plaintiff was walking across East Twelfth Street in the city of Oakland near the middle of the block . . . near the center line of the street he was struck by an automobile . . . An ordinance of the city of Oakland prohibited pedestrians crossing this highway except at a crosswalk and plaintiff was admittedly violating the ordinance at the time of his injury. . .

. . .if plaintiff is himself guilty of continuing negligence without which the injury would not have occurred, and if as a person of ordinary prudence he should have foreseen that an injury of that character would be likely to result from his negligence, his continuing negligence is a proximate cause of his injury and will bar a recovery. . .

The judgment is reversed[/quote]
online.ceb.com/calcases/C2/11C2d255.htm

[quote]This is an appeal from a judgement for personal injuries. Plaintiff a resident and citizen of Wisconsin, was struck by defendant’s automobile and injured as he was crossing U.S. Highway No. 12 in front of his home. . .

Under the law of Wisconsin a plaintiff may recover when guilty of contributory negligence, if the defendant’s negligence has been established and plaintiff’s negligence is not as great as defendant’s. . .

At the point plaintiff crossed the highway there was no crosswalk, either marked or unmarked. Therefore, it was plaintiff’s absolute duty to yield the right-of-way to defendant and his failure to do so would be, under the law of Wisconsin, negligence as a matter of law. . .

The evidence was also sufficient to justify a finding that plaintiff was negligent in failing to keep a proper lookout. . . He looked to the east before he went onto the pavement but did not look again as he crossed the pavement. . .

When two persons are negligent and injury to one proximately results from the combined negligence of both, it must often be a very delicate and difficult question to decide whether the negligence of one was greater than that of the other, and contributed in a greater degree to produce the injury. . .[/quote]
jurisearch.com/newroot/casel … 01+F.2d+88

I don’t remember all the facts you reported in your case, and I don’t know what evidence was presented in court, but if the judge concluded based on the evidence presented that your daughter was 100% at fault, then it doesn’t seem crazy at all to deny her a recovery and hold her parents liable for the injury she caused.

I’m sorry to say that. It’s a sad story. But I guess the most important thing is that your daughter was not seriously injured or killed, and the most important lesson to be learned is for your daughter to be more careful in the future near the roads or sidewalks, with all the crazy reckless drivers in Taiwan. Seriously, I hope she learned that lesson.

No offense intended at all, but sometimes it’s best just to suck it up, gain whatever wisdom one can from the experience and move on.

Yes, but MT are you talking about adults here? To what standard should an 11-year old girl be expected to behave? Surely the degree of her negligence has to be assessed on the basis that she can ony be held up to the standard of a “reasonable” 11-year old girl? And in this case it appears that the plaintiff was trying to recover damages from the parents who were alleged to have been “negligent” in allowing their 11-year old girl to be knocked over in the street. I am not sure who is the defendent in this case…

The precedent set therefore by this case is that if I knock over a child I get away with it because they are ipso facto contributorily negligent, or alternativley the parents are negligent in letting her set foot outside the house, and that should be a conclusion it is impossible for a court to come to on the basis of public policy at the very least so help me God. Phew!

Agreed, that seems proper. I don’t know what standard was applied in this case and I agree that the standard of “a reasonable 11 year-old” doesn’t seem to be very high. It ought to be easy to satisfy that standard. But, apparently the judge felt she was 100% at fault based on whatever standard of care he felt should apply to her.

In the US, I believe the defendants would be the parents or legal guardians for the child, because an 11 year-old can’t be held legally liable, just as she can’t enter into legally binding contracts on her own. In itself, that’s not unreasonable at all. Imagine for instance that an 11 year old burns down someones house. The injured homeowners should obviously have a right to sue the parents of the child arsonist.

Not necessarily. Maybe the judge did hold that the 11 year-old was required to observe the standard of care one would expect from a reasonably prudent 11 year-old, whatever that might be, and the judge concluded that, based on the evidence presented, this child did not meet that standard. Perhaps he felt a reasonable 11 year-old would look before stepping into the street but this girl didn’t – she just blindly stepped into traffic.

If that were the case then the precedent set would be that if you’re driving a motorbike properly and carefully and a pedestrian steps in front of you in violation of the reasonable standard of care that would be expected from that person, and you were injured as a result of that person’s negligence, you can recover for the injuries that person caused you. Not unreasonable if that’s the precedent.

I doubt the precedent was that extreme. Most likely the judge felt the girl was careless in stepping in front of the bike and not looking first, but I don’t know all the facts or, more imporantly, the evidence presented in court.

BUT, notwithstanding the above, I admit that I have very little confidence in most Taiwan judges to conduct trials properly, apply correct legal standards and come to the correct decisions.

A key point here was that my daughter was NOT hit whilst crossing the road - she had already crossed the road ( she had crossed the white line at the side of the road indicating where people should drive ). This doesn’t appear to be considered important, so technically if I was getting in my car I got hit in the same position then it would be my fault - even if the motorcycle rider was not paying attention ( which in this case motorcycle rider she admitted the wasn’t !!! This didn’t seem to matter either )

So how does the pedestrian stand when there is no pavement - or the pavement is not useable ?

just happened to come across relevant case today

silive.com/news/advance/inde … thispage=2

Hear hear. I have two words for this decision: Hong Bao.

It’s been a month … any developments on this???

The more I learn about Taiwan the more I hate it.

For me:

Culture Shock phase 1: adore it
Culture Shock phase 2: hate it
Culture Shock phase 3: accept it
Culture Shock phase 4: hate it even more, but this time with reason

[quote=“bob_honest”]The more I learn about Taiwan the more I hate it.

For me:

Culture Shock phase 1: adore it
Culture Shock phase 2: hate it
Culture Shock phase 3: accept it
Culture Shock phase 4: hate it even more, but this time with reason[/quote]

That’s 'cause deep down they resent you and therefore don’t really accept you. And this is not where you are meant or want to be.

[quote=“j99l88e77”][quote=“bob_honest”]The more I learn about Taiwan the more I hate it.

For me:

Culture Shock phase 1: adore it
Culture Shock phase 2: hate it
Culture Shock phase 3: accept it
Culture Shock phase 4: hate it even more, but this time with reason[/quote]

That’s 'cause deep down they resent you and therefore don’t really accept you. And this is not where you are meant or want to be.[/quote]

You mean because they refused my credit card?
And mobile phone on my name?
And because my nephews still laugh their ass off when they see me?
And because my wife points at me, laughs, talks to someone in Chinese about me?
Because people think here “foreigners are not so intelligent like we Chinese”?
Because she points out my hairy body and long nose to others and laughs?

Noooooooooo! We don’t wanne be racist here, do we ?

All friendly people and all smiling!

It is just my negative approach towards Taiwan causing all this. :wink:

[quote=“bob_honest”][quote=“j99l88e77”][quote=“bob_honest”]The more I learn about Taiwan the more I hate it.

For me:

Culture Shock phase 1: adore it
Culture Shock phase 2: hate it
Culture Shock phase 3: accept it
Culture Shock phase 4: hate it even more, but this time with reason[/quote]

That’s 'cause deep down they resent you and therefore don’t really accept you. And this is not where you are meant or want to be.[/quote]

You mean because they refused my credit card?
And mobile phone on my name?
And because my nephews still laugh their ass off when they see me?
And because my wife points at me, laughs, talks to someone in Chinese about me?
Because people think here “foreigners are not so intelligent like we Chinese”?
Because she points out my hairy body and long nose to others and laughs?

Noooooooooo! We don’t wanne be racist here, do we ?

All friendly people and all smiling!

It is just my negative approach towards Taiwan causing all this. :wink:[/quote]

I guess that just about sums it up.

[quote=“j99l88e77”][quote=“bob_honest”][quote=“j99l88e77”][quote=“bob_honest”]The more I learn about Taiwan the more I hate it.

For me:

Culture Shock phase 1: adore it
Culture Shock phase 2: hate it
Culture Shock phase 3: accept it
Culture Shock phase 4: hate it even more, but this time with reason[/quote]

That’s 'cause deep down they resent you and therefore don’t really accept you. And this is not where you are meant or want to be.[/quote]

You mean because they refused my credit card?
And mobile phone on my name?
And because my nephews still laugh their ass off when they see me?
And because my wife points at me, laughs, talks to someone in Chinese about me?
Because people think here “foreigners are not so intelligent like we Chinese”?
Because she points out my hairy body and long nose to others and laughs?

Noooooooooo! We don’t wanne be racist here, do we ?

All friendly people and all smiling!

It is just my negative approach towards Taiwan causing all this. :wink:[/quote]

I guess that just about sums it up.[/quote]

Classic post for Taiwan newbies. :bravo: