Sure, Mick. Couldn’t agree more. But give it a rest with the buffoons who go about telling complete strangers “my belief is better than your belief.” Here’s a heads-up: It isn’t. God worshiper, Joe Smith worshiper, rock worshiper, no-one worshiper – there’s none any better than any others.
Except the right one.
If Catholicism is true and you have to receive the Catholic sacraments to avoid going to Hell, then that makes Catholicism better.
If Islam is true and you need to call God Allah and accept Mohammad as the Prophet or you’ll go to Hell, then that makes Islam better.
If Buddhism is true and you need to gain enlightenment or suffer for a longer period of time and have more painful incarnations, then Buddhism is better.
If atheism is true, and by knowing there is no God you can save yourself unnecessary anguish over a bunch of silly superstitions, then that makes atheism better (assuming an equally useful philosophy).
But how many times, Sandman, have you gotten on threads about religion and said how stupid it was to believe in God? You’re doing the exact same thing-- telling others that their beliefs are not as good as yours.
The difference between you and missionaries of whatever religion is that missionaries actually want to help others. They believe their message is helpful, beneficial, and even critical. Some missionaries get pissed off at people scorning them and then become rude in return. Some are actually out for personal glory rather than to benefit others. But that’s the exception to the rule.
[color=green]Personal comments removed by mod[/color]. You show up on almost every thread about religion to get your jabs in. Same goes for Sat TV. Of course, it’s a free forum, and you can criticize what you want (within the rules), but when you say what you said in the above quote and do what you’re doing…
[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]But how many times, Sandman, have you gotten on threads about religion and said how stupid it was to believe in God? You’re doing the exact same thing-- telling others that their beliefs are not as good as yours.
The difference between you and missionaries of whatever religion is that missionaries actually want to help others. They believe their message is helpful, beneficial, and even critical. [/quote]
well, that’s hardly fair. sandman (and I, and many others) actually wants to help you too. on fact, you said as much in your previous sentence… atheists claim that there is no truth to the god myth, so believing in it is not helpful and you’d be better off putting your trust somewhere useful. we believe that this is indeed a critical thing to point out to ALL believers of whatever faith they may be: while religion has its uses and benefits, the drawbacks of living a life by faith actually outweigh the benefits. [color=green]Personal comments deleted.[/color]
your claims that the only good and correct way to see the world is to trust in what is revealed are patently absurd. for a start, atomic theory has NEVER been a ‘revealed’ knowledge, yet here you are proselytising via computer. do you therefore not believe in computers, as they are not revealed, or do you believe in them (which you must do to allow your good fingers to type and to post) and damn the fact that they are not revealed? that’s a funky paradox.
and didn’t we just say goodbye to you a few weeks ago? or did you reenlist as part of the ‘greater forumosa’ community, and post from HK now?
What rot. Whether I believe its stupid is entirely beside the point. Of course I have every right to believe its stupid, and I do, and have seen nothing in any of these threads that changes my mind, but I don’t recall ever saying that my belief is better than yours. That’s YOUR perception, not mine.
Of COURSE I believe that my belief is better than yours – just as you believe ole Joe is more of the real deal than any of the other charlatans – but I’ve never said such. That doesn’t stop me from “getting my jabs in” though. They’re just beliefs at the end of the day. You think (as far as I can tell) that god has visited you or somesuch and that you therefore have “proof” that god exists. Good for you, but I think that’s just about the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Do I think its any more or less stupid than my belief – that god doesn’t exist? No I do not. The whole thing is just varying degrees of stupidness as far as I’m concerned. God exists. No he doesn’t. Maybe he does. He’s in every rock and leaf. You’ll to to heaven. You’ll go to hell. You’ll get reincarnated. You’ll simply turn to dust.
Who cares? You’re dead and gone by that time. Or not. What does it matter?
All I know is I don’t need some bloke on a cross, or a virgin birth, or some conman finding some golden crockery in a field to live a decent life or get over my fear of the great unknown or whatever.
I understand that you’re simply explaining your views and that you’re not trying to convert anyone, and that’s just fine by me. Its interesting, in fact – you seem to know a lot about Mormonism. Those young guys on their bicycles, on the other hand, ARE trying to convert people, by telling them “their way is better.” BULLSHIT. Its just a way. If that’s what you want, live it, in peace and happiness, inshallah, but as soon as you start trying to tell someone that Joe Smith is “better” than a rock in a stream or Buddha or whoever, then you’re open to abuse.
Rightly so, I believe.
I feel exactly the same way about Catholic missionaries, Jehovas Witnesses and all them other crackpots, by the way, not just Mormons. I would never ever dream of telling you that my Guanyin statue trumps your thing, for example, even though I obviously believe it to be true by having it my house in the first place.
You stated in another thread I can’t find now that they’re all bullshit “except the right one.” Thing is, there IS no “right one.” Sure there’s a right one for YOU and a right one for ME and a right one for some Amazon Indian in the rainforest. What’s right for them is right for them. Why on earth do these missionaries or their handlers feel they have a right to foist their silly fantasies on someone else in the hope that they’ll give up THEIR silly fantasies?
I LIKE my fantasies, just as you like yours. I take comfort from them. They bring me peace. Just as yours do you. They’re extremely silly and superstitioius, I know, but they’re MINE and they’re no more silly and superstitious than yours (“yours” referring to everyone with a belief different to mine. Leave me (meaning non-Mormons in general) alone. And if you’re going to wear a white shirt and black pants in 35 degree weather, at LEAST for FUCK’S sake polish your damn shoes. You look like a scruff.
What rot. Whether I believe its stupid is entirely beside the point. Of course I have every right to believe its stupid, and I do, and have seen nothing in any of these threads that changes my mind, but I don’t recall ever saying that my belief is better than yours. That’s YOUR perception, not mine.
Of COURSE I believe that my belief is better than yours – just as you believe ole Joe is more of the real deal than any of the other charlatans – but I’ve never said such. That doesn’t stop me from “getting my jabs in” though. They’re just beliefs at the end of the day. You think (as far as I can tell) that god has visited you or somesuch and that you therefore have “proof” that god exists. Good for you, but I think that’s just about the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Do I think its any more or less stupid than my belief – that god doesn’t exist? No I do not. The whole thing is just varying degrees of stupidness as far as I’m concerned. God exists. No he doesn’t. Maybe he does. He’s in every rock and leaf. You’ll to to heaven. You’ll go to hell. You’ll get reincarnated. You’ll simply turn to dust.
Who cares? You’re dead and gone by that time. Or not. What does it matter?
All I know is I don’t need some bloke on a cross, or a virgin birth, or some conman finding some golden crockery in a field to live a decent life or get over my fear of the great unknown or whatever.
I understand that you’re simply explaining your views and that you’re not trying to convert anyone, and that’s just fine by me. Its interesting, in fact – you seem to know a lot about Mormonism. Those young guys on their bicycles, on the other hand, ARE trying to convert people, by telling them “their way is better.” BULLSHIT. Its just a way. If that’s what you want, live it, in peace and happiness, inshallah, but as soon as you start trying to tell someone that Joe Smith is “better” than a rock in a stream or Buddha or whoever, then you’re open to abuse.
Rightly so, I believe.
I feel exactly the same way about Catholic missionaries, Jehovas Witnesses and all them other crackpots, by the way, not just Mormons. I would never ever dream of telling you that my Guanyin statue trumps your thing, for example, even though I obviously believe it to be true by having it my house in the first place.
You stated in another thread I can’t find now that they’re all bullshit “except the right one.” Thing is, there IS no “right one.” Sure there’s a right one for YOU and a right one for ME and a right one for some Amazon Indian in the rainforest. What’s right for them is right for them. Why on earth do these missionaries or their handlers feel they have a right to foist their silly fantasies on someone else in the hope that they’ll give up THEIR silly fantasies?
I like my fantasies, just as you like yours. I take comfort from them. They bring me peace. Just as yours do you. They’re extremely silly and superstitioius, I know, but they’re MINE and they’re no more silly and superstitious than yours (“yours” referring to everyone with a belief different to mine. Leave me (meaning non-Mormons in general) alone. And if you’re going to wear a white shirt and black pants in 35 degree weather, at LEAST for FUCK’S sake polish your damn shoes. You look like a scruff.[/quote]
I think that is the longest post from Sandman I’ve seen.
That’s because Sandman didn’t really write it - he was channeling a higher power. 
That’s because Sandman didn’t really write it - he was channeling a higher power. [/quote]
I think it was the bob the Great and Powerful…took hold of Snadman and Poe-SESSED him!
Right now Snadman is waking up nekkid in the middle of the floor in a cold sweat with no idea how he got there…
Not that that’s terribly unusual on its own…
Sandman wrote:
Best. comeback. ever.
The chief: [quote]I think it was the bob the Great and Powerful…took hold of Snadman and Poe-SESSED him!
Right now Snadman is waking up nekkid in the middle of the floor in a cold sweat with no idea how he got there…
Not that that’s terribly unusual on its own…[/quote]
Yep, we’ve all been there. The especially scary part is looking around for your clothes and not finding them.
From such dark moments of weakness and confusion are born wedding proposals.
The grog works in mysterious ways.
bob got shitcanned, I believe. At least the chief is here to give me some reason to read…
Bob is only suspended I believe. SHitcanned might be rather harsh. I’m sure Bob will be back with more vigour and vitriol to please us all.
I’ve never seen vitriol from bob. Not sure about the vigour either.
vinegar maybe
Except the right one.
If Catholicism is true and you have to receive the Catholic sacraments to avoid going to Hell, then that makes Catholicism better.
If Islam is true and you need to call God Allah and accept Mohammad as the Prophet or you’ll go to Hell, then that makes Islam better.
If Buddhism is true and you need to gain enlightenment or suffer for a longer period of time and have more painful incarnations, then Buddhism is better.
If atheism is true, and by knowing there is no God you can save yourself unnecessary anguish over a bunch of silly superstitions, then that makes atheism better (assuming an equally useful philosophy).
But how many times, Sandman, have you gotten on threads about religion and said how stupid it was to believe in God? You’re doing the exact same thing-- telling others that their beliefs are not as good as yours.
The difference between you and missionaries of whatever religion is that missionaries actually want to help others. They believe their message is helpful, beneficial, and even critical. Some missionaries get pissed off at people scorning them and then become rude in return. Some are actually out for personal glory rather than to benefit others. But that’s the exception to the rule.
[color=green]Personal comments removed by mod[/color]. You show up on almost every thread about religion to get your jabs in. Same goes for Sat TV. Of course, it’s a free forum, and you can criticize what you want (within the rules), but when you say what you said in the above quote and do what you’re doing…[/quote]
I think you miss what is practiced by many religious folk. Which is their religion is a lifestyle, the environment to bring up their children. The teaching of socially acceptable norms and the community spirit. Were you to latch on to a particular teaching in an attempt to denounce the religion, they may laugh and say, not everything is meant to be taken quite so literally.
In other words it doesn’t matter to them that parts of the bible don’t seem to make much sense, and if its more about how you live your life which they may feel their religion is as good a guide as any other, the logic you have above does not apply. In other words, it really doesn’t matter which of the religions you follow, more important is who you are, and let your actions define you as a human being.
These people from any religious background I find to extremely tolerant towards others who have differing beliefs to their own, sometimes looking at the learning experience that can enrich theirs and others around them from learning a diversity of cultures and beliefs (they don’t feel challenged). I also think they far outweigh the extremists of any religion.
Once you start dealing with the extremists, not only do they look down on other religions but will discriminate against those in their own religion, for not following the true teachings, groups like the Taliban. This intolerance and this insistence that their belief is the only right one is the cause for more resentment and hatred in the history of man, (save perhaps nationalism).
Todays world has overpopulation issues, global warming (try to rebuke that Fred hahahaha), disease , poverty and dwindling resources. Respecting others rights to hold beliefs different to your own, must be a basic fundamental tenet. Its a small world, we need to put differences aside in order to avoid real suffering.
Who, me? Not at all. I’m pretty sure that’s what just about EVERYONE aspires to, whether they’re gathering wild figs in the jungle or loading the kids into their SUV for football practice.
What I’m saying is that there isn’t any religion or belief system that’s any better than any other for that. Even, gasp, Islam.
To say that one particular kind is better than another is bullshit. Therefore, missionaries, who by their very nature have to do exactly that, are the very apogee of arrogance.
I believe that my belief system is better - better for me. Islam just wouldn’t fit.
I believe that my belief system is better - better for me. Islam just wouldn’t fit.[/quote]
Precisely. But do you think it’s also better for a caveman worshiping a frog in the jungle? More to the point, would you go and tell him such? I’m guessing not.
This is truly a great thread snippet. Sandman, I’m on your team. Couldn’t agree more.
My belief is that if it rains this weekend, it’s all Sandman’s fault.
Who, me? Not at all. I’m pretty sure that’s what just about EVERYONE aspires to, whether they’re gathering wild figs in the jungle or loading the kids into their SUV for football practice.
What I’m saying is that there isn’t any religion or belief system that’s any better than any other for that. Even, gasp, Islam.
To say that one particular kind is better than another is bullshit. Therefore, missionaries, who by their very nature have to do exactly that, are the very apogee of arrogance.[/quote]
Right, my comments were to RDO, should I have been less lazy I would have removed your quote from the top.
In particular, RDO presents this conundrum in which religion is the right one. I had wanted to point out, for many this is a non issue, as they dont feel the need to justify every word and sentence of the religious text, rather looking at it as a way of life for themselves and family.