why is it so hard for taiwanese people to take responsibility for their actions?!! huh?! someone, please tell me why?
i know this can apply to people in general, regardless of race, sexual orientation, creed, economic status, but i just got home from the bar where a huge argument between my GF and I took place.
I am a firm believer that we all make choices; how we behave, feel, react. etc… no one can “make” you do anything.
I left my GF this past summer cause it was time to throw in the towel. details aren’t important. i made the choice because it was right for me.
now we’re back together, have worked things out, changes have been made on both parts etc, etc. etc.
GF recently gets a job review. during the summer when we were apart, it was a very painful time for both of us, but tonight i found myself being told my choice to break up with her is the cause of her shitty job performance… that when she looks at me she feels angry because if i hadn’t left her, she wouldn’t have done such a slog job at work.
I, on the other hand, don’t feel i should be held responsible for this. i did what i had to do for me at that time. Despite 3 months worth of “i’ve changed, i understand why you left me and agree etc…” i am more apt to beleive after tonight that it was all lip service.
do i blame her for being an ass at my job cause i felt out of sorts? no.
it just blows my mind that i am somehow responsible for her shitty performance… :raspberry:
and this isn’t a case of language barrier cause she’s fluent in english.
I think some people just doesn’t like to admit to their mistake. Did you ever mention anything about her job, ie how there is no improvement, how bad her job was…etc?? Maybe when you made those statement you weren’t clear so she though it was because of the job that’s why you guys took some time off??
I am a firm believe on admtting your fault and improve (not change) on it. Its hard for people to change but always room for improvment.
maybe you should talk to her more to see where she is coming from??
I know how u feel. My ex could not accept responsibility for shit. Just no getting throught to her. The kind of person who would shoot someone and then blame it on the bullet. A lac of character to say the least.
If you weren’t such a bad kisser (insert your own reason here) I would never have had to leave you.
Now you’re loading your problems onto me and making me think I don’t want to stay together.
What’s the problem here? The problem is that you, girlfriend, keep driving me away and it affects your performance at work because you’re dependent - ie can’t take responsibility for your own life. It’s all your fault.
Of course, we could say that it doesn’t matter who’s at fault. We could say that it’s all in the past and the important thing to do is move forward and get on with our lives together.
I doubt it’ll work.
My problem in relationships is the same one that I had when I tried to do sales here. People will agree with you but not really mean it. You get compliance but no commitment. You can discuss the reasons why product A is better than product B, but if they want B there’s nothing you can do about it. You can talk this problem through, and believe you’ve found a resolution, but my bet is that you’re only going to change the superficial behaviour without changing the attitudes and beliefs at the root of the problem. When the problem becomes big the stuff under the surface comes back, and you realise you never resolved the problem in the first place. All you got was compliance, for the sake of an easy life.
Sad though it is, I agree with the guy in the ‘slight’ thread who advocated dominating/bullying your gf. My relations with TW girls have only been satisfactory when I was the boss and they did as they were told. Personally, I find that a bit boring after a while. Try finding an independent spirit with a sense of responsibility in this country, and you’ll understand why I’m still single.
Of course, it doesn’t help that I’m also a lesbian - trapped in a man’s body.
Sorry to hear about your situation, bushibanned. No, it’s not your fault. Some people just can’t take responsibility for their own actions. I think about it like this: I used to smoke. Can I blame my students if I start smoking again? Can I say, “Well, you were very bad today, so you made me smoke.”? No. We each control our own actions and we need to take responsibility for them. I hope your girlfriend doesn’t continue to blame you for all of her actions in the future. That would be a shame and only weaken your feelings for her. I hope everything works out.
Are you sure she was really blaming you for her poor performance at work? Maybe this has nothing to do with taking responsibiity for their actions but love. Maybe she was telling you “look, you meant a lot to me and when you left me like that I was devastated.” , “Do you realize how much you meant to me?” or, simply “I love you”. Some people just can’t say those three words, you know. Too much pride and stuff. I hope it works out for the both of you. Good luck.
In Taiwan, no one is responsible for anything so that means you don’t have to be either.
I basically support Loretta’s response compliance without commitment.
I think you two may not have worked out all the issues and it will effect your relationship. It happened to me. I was forced to move into a shitty apartment for a year because at the time my gf wouldn’t go and look at apartments for us and we were forced to take the only one we looked at at the time which was on the 5th floor, no AC and near a traditional market. You may have a similiar situation at hand. I could of done something different at the time, but didn’t which is my mistake.
we’ve already been over and recognize that the break up was very painful for both of us. however, that is no reason to go through life placing blame on others for their behavior. at least, that’s not how i was raised or do things. unfortunate painful shit happens all the time in life but looking to make someone else responsible for how a person chooses to deal with things is horseshit in my book. i taught the worst i’ve ever taught during that time, spent every weekend in taizhong getting stoned on coke and e and booze. i certainly don’t blame it on her. it was my choice. granted, i was hurting because of the situation but as if i would ever look at her and say “i did all this because you made me feel like shit and it’s your fault i f*cked away three months of my life and slogged at my job.” 拜託
Bushibanned: I would get out of that relationship ASAP. People who blame others for their own shortcomings are not productive people or good “soulmates” either.
I am in no way trying to say that she is correct, but for future reference… her problem is not limited to taiwanese. Nor are taiwanese a lock on this type of mentality. Just depends on the person herself/himself (yes it happens on both sides for all kinds of people).
I wish ya luck for your next relationship. It’s better for you in the long run that it’s over. Or how I prefer to say… F*ck it! Next!!
I think it’s just a question of how different cultures describe the same thing. Your description of the situation above leads me to believe that the breakup of your relationship caused you a lot of pain, which made you take too many drugs and do your job badly. The breakup of your relationship caused your girlfriend a lot of pain and caused her to do her job badly. She says: It’s your fault. You say: The breakup of the relationship made me feel bad, but I freely chose to react as I did.
Actually, deep down, aren’t you both really blaming the same thing? The breakup made you both do your job badly.
The Taiwanese tend to try to blame others for problems, but that doesn’t mean that deep down they really believe the problem is someone else’s fault. We are trained to say we take responsibility for our actions, but that doesn’t mean that deep down we don’t really blame someone else.
I think it’s just a question of how different cultures describe the same thing. Your description of the situation above leads me to believe that the breakup of your relationship caused you a lot of pain, which made you take too many drugs and do your job badly. The breakup of your relationship caused your girlfriend a lot of pain and caused her to do her job badly. She says: It’s your fault. You say: The breakup of the relationship made me feel bad, but I freely chose to react as I did.
Actually, deep down, aren’t you both really blaming the same thing? The breakup made you both do your job badly.
The Taiwanese tend to try to blame others for problems, but that doesn’t mean that deep down they really believe the problem is someone else’s fault. We are trained to say we take responsibility for our actions, but that doesn’t mean that deep down we don’t really blame someone else.[/quote]
Reading through all this is really helping me understand in my relationship.
Sometimes she may do something. Because of that something I decide to take care of it (but it’s something that doesn’t need immediate attention), but end up being late for work and getting in trouble. I tell her I got in trouble for being late, and she immediately asks if it’s her fault. I tell her it’s my fault for choosing, but she doesn’t seem to understand, hence I don’t understand her, but now I understand, you understanding me?
I’ve also found in similar cases, where trying to understand her better, I decide to play the game and blame her (although I’m not the type of guy to point fingers). She’d get angry or grumpy, but wouldn’t you know it, her behavior would change (sometimes, but depends on situation).
I’ve found that I can’t talk about relationship problems with other full blooded western folks unless they understand the culture to a degree. Otherwise I just get totaly bad advice because they’re just way out in left field.
If you two felt that bad about NOT being with each other, then it might be worth another try. Just one bit of advice: Try to avoid arguing in public. No, don’t try; just avoid it completly!
I had a Korean gal who I thought the world of, and who would drink too much in public, and eventually start bitching me out in public (usually on a busy street with plenty of young, happy people about), and I’m sure she did this intentionally.
Anyway, I finally just started walking away whenever I saw the red flags come up. It worked; but then again, we’re not together anymore.
I really can’t understand how anyone could argue in a nightclub/pub. I DO understand how two people could get angry with each other in a nightclub, though. Happens all the time.
[quote=“wonder”]If you two felt that bad about NOT being with each other, then it might be worth another try. Just one bit of advice: Try to avoid arguing in public. No, don’t try; just avoid it completly!
I had a Korean gal who I thought the world of, and who would drink too much in public, and eventually start bitching me out in public (usually on a busy street with plenty of young, happy people about), and I’m sure she did this intentionally.
Anyway, I finally just started walking away whenever I saw the red flags come up. It worked; but then again, we’re not together anymore.
I really can’t understand how anyone could argue in a nightclub/pub. I do understand how two people could get angry with each other in a nightclub, though. Happens all the time.[/quote]
naw. wasn’t a screaming match… just a discussion. i left though cause it was late, and didn’t want it to turn ugly
Don’t worry, wonder. Mine does the same thing. There was a funny show on the Knowledge channel about Korean women marrying U.S. soldiers and their relationship problems. One part I found hilarious was when the woman would get upset, she wouldn’t talk and the foreign guy would have to pester her forever to get her to say anything. I can relate! My gf tells me that Taiwanese women are not raised to discuss certain problems with their men. :s I don’t know, I am nowhere near an expert on Taiwanese women. Maybe your gf shuts down because when you “point out” these things, you are putting down her people. Maybe she is embarrassed by them? I could be wrong. Just my 2 cents.
Remember, a lot of Taiwanese are very sheltered by their parents, even into their late 20’s. Many of them never have to experience to true downsides of life on their own until later in life. This is just my personal point of view. YMMV. How old is your gf? Has she been on her own for a long time, etc.? I hope everything works out for you.
I saw the same program and it was pretty funny but yet touching to see the effort made on both sides to bridge both communication and cultural gaps.
About the whole inability to deal with anything negative, in my opinion, it’s one a face thing – to say something negative reflects negatively on the person so avoid saying anything bad. Second, it’s the inability to understand that speaking negative of an issue is WAY different from speaking negatively of someone/people. Yes, we all complain and whine about things in Taiwan but most of us to do like the country and people but are fed up with some of the things we have to deal with here.
You know, another thing might just be that she was just talking in anger, words just flying out, that aren’t really ment. I know mine does this frequently, along with members of her family. Some of the things she says are extremely harsh, but not really true, like “I wish you were dead”. Perhaps you situation is related?
After we’ve talked about it a few times now, I understand that many times she just talks in the heat of the moment and many times it’s not true, but I still dont’ like it. It’s almost like they’re trying to get you unraveled? I’m not sure. Still trying to figure it out myself.
No, it’s not your fault. Some people just can’t take responsibility for their own actions. I think about it like this: I used to smoke. Can I blame my students if I start smoking again? Can I say, “Well, you were very bad today, so you made me smoke.”? No. We each control our own actions and we need to take responsibility for them. I hope your girlfriend doesn’t continue to blame you for all of her actions in the future. That would be a shame and only weaken your feelings for her. I hope everything works out. 
Happens all the time.