I just have to say, from just about every DR thread I have seen you in, that I am SO GLAD i’m not your SO.
You really need to stop being so selfish in the way you view relationships.
I don’t think its a question of selfishness so much as unrealistic expectations. Compromise and change on the part of both parties is good and necessary in most cases, probably, but as Ironlady said, that works only for the small things. Shit, sometimes not even for small things – I STILL can’t for the life of me remember to put the toilet seat down.
In a case where one partner wants “stuff” while the other just can’t see the point and prefers to travel light, I’d say that’s a whole lot bigger than small stuff. It’s asking one or the other to totally change their whole persona.
I don’t know about you, but I couldn’t. I’d maybe SAY I could, or I might even TRY to, but I think it would end in heartache.
I think I’d prefer seeking someone with whom I had a bit more in common in the first place.
God, that sounds awful serious. Hey everybody, guess what? I just farted!
[quote=“sandman”]
God, that sounds awful serious. Hey everybody, guess what? I just farted![/quote]
Hah! I just SHARTED!
[quote=“SuchAFob”]I just have to say, from just about every DR thread I have seen you in, that I am SO GLAD I’m not your SO.
You really need to stop being so selfish in the way you view relationships.[/quote]
My husband doesn’t seem to have any complaints about it. But then again it seems amazing to me that my husband and I have so little to argue over to begin with. Maybe because I didn’t compromise (at least the second time around 
) and settle for someone with whom I could never be compatible?
Or aren’t you talking to me?
Uh… no… I was talking to the OP…
everybody is just different, don’t mention two people from two cultures… if I have to change myself hold my relationship or show people I am not selfish and shallow, then I’d rather be a bad girlfriend.
SuchAFob, you miss my point. I am just so disappointed that he wants to have a future with me but doesn’t seem want to do any effort for it. (maybe he doesn’t think he needs to)
I got some very good points from some replies though
everybody is just different, don’t mention two people from two cultures… if I have to change myself hold my relationship or show people I am not selfish and shallow, then I’d rather be a bad girlfriend.
SuchAFob, you miss my point. I am just so disappointed that he wants to have a future with me but doesn’t seem want to do any effort for it. (maybe he doesn’t think he needs to)
I got some very good points from some replies though
everybody is just different, don’t mention two people from two cultures… if I have to change myself hold my relationship or show people I am not selfish and shallow, then I’d rather be a bad girlfriend.
SuchAFob, you miss my point. I am just so disappointed that he wants to have a future with me but doesn’t seem want to do any effort for it. (maybe he doesn’t think he needs to)
I got some very good points from some replies though
What kind of effort would make you feel more comfortable?
i just want to say in regards to relationships in general:
adjustments and compromises are good and healthy,
but, to CHANGE for someone, thats out of the question.
i dont think anyone should change who they are to stay in a relationship. what is the point if someone doesnt like you for who you are.
sugarcane doesnt say she necessarily wants her SO to “change”, just think about their future.
it doesnt help to call him a “jerk” because he doesnt agree with your lifestyle either. it sounds like you do want him to change, but arent willing to admit it.
be yourself and let others be themselves. if you need to change something, change your relationship, not a person.
jm
Maybe you are missing the point that he thinks having the two of you will be happiness. And that watches, cars, and big houses aren’t needed.
The effort a man should put into you is in treating you well. Not in buying you shit. If you disagree, you should find a man who does agree.
when I said he doesn’t seem want to make any efforts, I didn’t mean to buy me LV bags, expensive watches… I meant to provide financial security. we both should save money. I don’t mean working hard and saving hard. I don’t know how to explain the idea. many of you must think I am crazy. maybe you think Taiwanese girl are crazy. but I just don’t want to worry about the money and I don’t want to give up the activities I really enjoy doing at the moment. I hope if I want to invite him to join me someday, I don’t have to think if he can afford it first. how if we do want to have a child in the future?
Your response doesn’t clarify the issue. What exactly do you want? If you can’t explain it to us, how can you expect him to understand? Maybe the two of you are just having communication problems.
What is he doing? Does he have a job? Do you think he should have a different job?
Does he save money? Is he not saving enough in your opinion? Do you think he’s wasting his money on something?
Are you certain he would want to participate in the activities you enjoy even if he could afford them?
In what sort of environment does he want to raise children?
For example, one of my friends was raised by parents who intentionally decided to be poor, quitting their higher paying office jobs so that they could spend more time at home with their children. They didn’t starve, but they didn’t have money for, say family vacations to Europe every year. And my friend was happy her parents took the risk. She now has a really close relationship with them as an adult.
Maybe you have different definitions of “financial security.” If that’s the case, then you should look for someone whose definition more closely resembles your own.
sugar cane, ignore SuchAFob, you did not mention stuffs like “watches, cars, and big houses” but she distorts what you said by assuming from the beginning that you’re a material girl.
In a sense, materialism is a matter of degree. Like Sandman implied, if you and your SO both love traveling, but you prefer to stay in a 4-star hotel and your SO prefer to stay in a hostel, then that represents a huge difference between you and the SO’s values , attitudes toward money and personalitly. It’s actually a big problem. Sometimes it has something to do with age and income. When I was younger and poorer, I enjoyed hostel stay all right, but when I’m getting older with more savings, I probably prefer a nice and clean and private room during my travel. I’m aware of that, so I know I have to make or save some more money to afford that, but I also know how far I’m willing to go to pursue it, alone or with an SO.
How much momey is enough for you, and for him, and what kind of life style do you, and does he, choose to live? Figure it out, and if necessary, leave, when it’s not too much heartbroken yet.
Good luck
Disagreements about money and financial management are among hte most common reasons for divorce or arguments in a marriage.
It just doesn’t make sense to marry someone (or create a long-term future with him) if he doesn’t share your basic orientation about money matters. It may sound romantic to say “Our love is above all that,” but in the real world, “all that” is before you every day. When the bills come in, every day is a potential conflict if you are not pulling together in the same direction for the family’s benefit. And that kind of conflict soon seeps into every aspect of the relationship, because underlying it are feelings that the other person does not respect your opinions enough to truly think about them and come up with a reasonable compromise.
All I can say (in a good way – believe me – although it will not sound like it to you who are still in your 20s) is you are just too young to realize this. When you have seen X number of your friends marry and then divorce, when you have fielded the late-night phone calls from your friends talking about just this kind of problem in their marriages, and when you yourself have been through the kinds of stress this can create in a marriage, you’ll know. But this kind of thing isn’t specific to f.com – seems like it’s a common chorus among people who are little older than another group of people. I’m sure my parents’ generation could tell me a lot of stuff I don’t really realize yet, too. But I won’t really “get it” until I’ve been through it, I guess. Just the way it is.
Doesn’t mean I don’t listen to what they say and try to identify the bits of advice that are valid for me now. (Probably more are, but that’s just life.)
Agree with ironlady completely. On the other hand, if you have the means to support your hobbies, is it so important that your SO might not find it important to pursue a career with high paying potential. There are the people who do not care to earn much money and perfectly fine with living on very little. There are the people who are financially irresponsible (don’t pay bills, neglect taxes).
If he is the former and not the latter, would you object to being the breadwinner so that you can live the lifestyle you desire and have the financial security that’s important to you? Assuming that he will not object to staying at a nice hotel when traveling with you? Would he make a good stay at home father ( you did mention children, didn’t you?)
[quote=“jdsmith”][quote]I can’t even picture myself in the life he describes.
[/quote]
I suggest not marrying him anytime soon.[/quote]
I concur.
[quote=“TomHill”]The biggy! Why won’t he bend towards what I want? Lady, what are you really asking here? Why break-up over a simple difference of opinion? Is he really determined to be poor, or is he testing you to see if you intend to turn him into a money-whore? He seems to have a negative mindset about the Tawianese obsession with money. You don’t like him having that mindset. Talk to him about it. Don’t try to change him too much. Just gently show him why you think what you think is important. Don’t get too doom and gloomy about ‘he won’t accept my cultural views.’ There is no way we can expect our partners to ‘fully adopt’ our culture. And fussing about money is part of the Taiwanese culture. In cross cultural relationships we must learn to accept how weird our lover is and to keep our mouths shut. 
It’s ‘give and take’, more than it is ‘learn to change.’
[/quote]
That is possibly the best advice I’ve yet read on the D&R forum. Good stuff TH… :bravo:
when I said he doesn’t seem want to make any efforts, I didn’t mean to buy me LV bags, expensive watches… I meant to provide financial security. we both should save money. I don’t mean working hard and saving hard. I don’t know how to explain the idea. many of you must think I am crazy. maybe you think Taiwanese girl are crazy. but I just don’t want to worry about the money and I don’t want to give up the activities I really enjoy doing at the moment. I hope if I want to invite him to join me someday, I don’t have to think if he can afford it first. how if we do want to have a child in the future?[/quote]
I kinda see your point I think.
I would love to have a BMW, for no other reason than it’s a great car to drive (somewhat wasted on the roads in Taiwan - but great back home). I realy want a Yamaha R-1, for no other reason than I love biking. I want to see so many countries, because…I WANT to…
These “trivial” things cost money. Three options, never do anything you want to 'cos you can’t afford to, make enough money to do it, or compromise and make a shitty wage only living from month to month.
But then there are other things. If you ever really want to own a home, or send your kids to a half decent school and university, you’d also best get off your ass and make some money. Even these essential things cost alot and the prices are only increasing.
What your exact differences of financial opinion is I’m unclear on. The thing is, I personally think it’s dumb to rent your whole life, retire and have nowhere to live. Buying is financially smarter and to do so one needs a minimum of financial security or you’ll never get a loan. This is true even for a modest home.
Some things are just par for the course. I think at 22 it’s maybe ok to enjoy living the life of the “tortured” artist with shitty clothes and living in some crappy rented apartment. However, when you get older and have kids to think about, then these “ideals” may not seem quite so “cool” anymore. Then having a decent home, and being able to afford a decent education for your kids is no longer some bourgeois capitalist WANT, but a very real world need. To provide for a family and to provide the very basic in terms of security takes a little more than one would think.
If you’re just dating someone with no particualr future these things may not be that apparently important, but when one starts to think about settling down and having a family, then a certain amount of security (largely in terms of financial security) becomes rather key. Whether you think that’s petty capitalism or chasing after money is beside the point.
Perhaps what Sugar Cane is worried about is whether this chap is actually going to be able to contribute towards at least some basic form of security towards the family they both want (and which he himself has said he wants - i.e. to play baseball with his son).
There is, in the real world, a big difference between financial realism and artistic fantasy…
[quote=“bismarck”]
Perhaps what Sugar Cane is worried about is whether this chap is actually going to be able to contribute towards at least some basic form of security towards the family they both want (and which he himself has said he wants - i.e. to play baseball with his son).
There is, in the real world, a big difference between financial realism and artistic fantasy…[/quote]
I’m actually 22 (well, i am turning 23 today 
), but i can only get along with what you say.
Financial security is something to take in account for anybody with a tad bit of maturity and an idea of what it takes to lead the life you want.
Sugar Cane.
From your posts you sound like a normally careful girl, who start considering what’s ahead of you (despite your OP was very unclear).
So unless you SO have had very poor experience in the past with materialistic “hong-kong girls” and in which case he is reacting epidermically (can’t blame him for that), he has to be immature or dumb.
I am guessing he is either making this point to nail your ass, as he thinks “his values” are better than your “materialism” and he needs to teach you something 
, which is useless and immature with the cultural gap that already doesnt help in your relationship, or he is either completely unaware of what it takes to get a family going (check Mickael Turton’s website for an financial estimation (around 70 000nt$/month to be comfortable)). In which case he gotta be so cut from realities he someway gotta be dumb for ignoring it.
I got into the same subject with my SO. She had the same opinion as yours. The difference is that i completely agree with her, and i am working my ass to find a sustainable means to put our future “US” into the safe zone.
I am not advocating LV here (i am not a brand personne myself), but preventing life’s sh*t to strain on your relation and happiness is something i believe to be utterly important.