Hmm, I’m not sure if some people mean this when they speak of “reciprocy”… 
Then read about [url=Worst accident/spill you've witnessed/been in? - #9 by Dangermouse one[/url] for a start…[/quote]
Yes, I read it…and at the end it said…[quote]The laws are a little different now, but just be careful. if someone has guan xi with the police, you never know what trouble you’ll land yourself in. Be careful folks.[/quote]
Falcon…why do you say their citizenship should be canceled? That’s the choice of the Taiwanese government and as I pointed out before reciprocity is not a right or requirement - more like a ‘if you are lucky they will do it’ kind of thing. 
Hmm, I’m not sure if some people mean this when they speak of “reciprocy”… [/quote]
Perhaps all those British who immigrate should have their citizenship automatically cancelled as well… NOT.
It’s up to the country of citizenship you hold to decide ther rules for renunciation, loss, issuance or resumption of citizenship. Many countries allow only one nationality, some allow dual or multiple nationality… In Brunei very few Chinese are given citizenship even though they are born there and have no other citizenship. They are effectivley, stateless, but residents.
Having to renounce citizenship to become an ROC citizen is not unfair, discriminatory or unjustified. It’s the law of the land. The USA grants citizenship to anyone born there, Australia does not… Taiwan does not.
I agree … if Taiwan has a strict “single nationality” policy, then so be it. If foreigners are required to renounce original nationality when getting Taiwan nationality … then of course it follows that those Taiwanese persons who obtain citizenship in another country must forfeit their Taiwan nationality.
That is … as you say … the law of the land … under a “single nationality” policy, which is what Taiwan appears to have … based on what I read in this Forum.
I agree … if Taiwan has a strict “single nationality” policy, then so be it. If foreigners are required to renounce original nationality when getting Taiwan nationality … then of course it follows that those Taiwanese persons who obtain citizenship in another country must forfeit their Taiwan nationality.
That is … as you say … the law of the land … under a “single nationality” policy, which is what Taiwan appears to have … based on what I read in this Forum.
[/quote]
Of course, something can be both unfair, discriminatory or unjustified and the law of the land!
It can even be all of those things at once!
:banned: :bouncy: :Europe:
[/quote]
Of course, something can be both unfair, discriminatory or unjustified and the law of the land!
It can even be all of those things at once!
:banned: :bouncy: :Europe:[/quote]
Well yes something can be but this requirement is not. It doesn’t say people from X must renounce their citizenship while people from Y don’t have to. It is fair because everyone is treated equally.
Of course, I always wonder why so many foreigners continue to stay here when they think things are so ‘unfair, discriminatory or unjustified.’ I mean the stress of living in such a hostile environment must be overwhelming how do you cope? Drugs, alcohol or just neverending sex?
Indeed, and as we all know the definition of a human is… an ROC citizen [/quote]
Dammit, someone beat me to it 
[quote=“Jive Turkey”][quote=“vannyel”]The U.S. doesn’t guarantee the rights of all foreigners - just ask those that have been picked up or ‘abused’ under the Patriot Act.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? Please be more specific. Foreigners arrested under the Patriot Act still enjoy the right to have their cases heard before a judge and right of appeal. They also now enjoy right of independent counsel (although I would admit that they were deprived for too long).
Any foreigner in Taiwan can be picked up and deported without the actions of the police being reviewed by a court of law. If you were picked up for jaywalking and the police decided that you should be deported for that, no matter how many times you ask for a hearing before a judge, you can still be denied that right. That simply does not occur in the United States or most of the other countries that posters on this forum are from.[/quote]
How can you be deported for breaking a non-existant law? I am becoming more and more of the opinion that it could be argued (in court) that in order to have laws, there must be regular enforcement. Since there is as much chance of that happening as there is of me sprouting wings and flying to Okinawa for vacation, I wonder how that argument would hold up in a Taiwan court? I’m semi-serious about this…
Then read about [url=Worst accident/spill you've witnessed/been in? - #9 by Dangermouse one[/url] for a start…[/quote]
I have a similar story. 12 years ago, some dimwit runs a red light, I hit him broadside (we were both on scooters). I was told that if I didn’t pay him NT$30,000 that I would be deported. I paid, even though the other guy had run a red light. So much for law, eh?
[/quote]
Of course, something can be both unfair, discriminatory or unjustified and the law of the land!
It can even be all of those things at once!
:banned: :bouncy: :Europe:[/quote]
Well yes something can be but this requirement is not. It doesn’t say people from X must renounce their citizenship while people from Y don’t have to. It is fair because everyone is treated equally.
Of course, I always wonder why so many foreigners continue to stay here when they think things are so ‘unfair, discriminatory or unjustified.’ I mean the stress of living in such a hostile environment must be overwhelming how do you cope? Drugs, alcohol or just neverending sex? [/quote]
Well, yes, in the sense you mean it is not discriminatory. Whether it is fair (in the great scheme of things) or justified is surely what we disagree about! 
Why do I stay here? (Can only answer for myself!) It could be the three things you mention… but mostly its just because I like it here. So, rather like you, I accept things as they are because there are other things more important I like about living here! But doesnt mean I have to agree with everything…
The odd post on a bulletin board doesn`t mean I am miserable all the time!
Just making the general (and I would have thought obvious) point that just because its the law dont make it right! 
[/quote]
Of course, something can be both unfair, discriminatory or unjustified and the law of the land!
It can even be all of those things at once!
:banned: :bouncy: :Europe:[/quote]
Well yes something can be but this requirement is not. It doesn’t say people from X must renounce their citizenship while people from Y don’t have to. It is fair because everyone is treated equally.
Of course, I always wonder why so many foreigners continue to stay here when they think things are so ‘unfair, discriminatory or unjustified.’ I mean the stress of living in such a hostile environment must be overwhelming how do you cope? Drugs, alcohol or just neverending sex? [/quote]
Well, yes, in the sense you mean it is not discriminatory. Whether it is fair (in the great scheme of things) or justified is surely what we disagree about!
Just making the general (and I would have thought obvious) point that just because its the law dont make it right! [/quote]
The real issue is that the law is not discriminatory. Fairness has got nothing to do with it. Nobody asked me to become an ROC Citizen, I chose to do so. I understood the requirements and met them. It’s a minor matter to renounce your citzenship… just fill in the required forms… and sign your life away hehehe
If you think it’s unfair then thats just a personal gripe. Is the price you pay for beer fair? Is your rent fair? Is it fair that I pay no taxes and others pay a lot?
Is it fair if you get deported for visa violations? I guess so. But that won’t happen to me, and thats fair.
The only way for my family and I to be recognized as equal human beings in Taiwan is to relinquish our nationalities and become part of the one true non nation of the Republic of China.
Hmmmmm…
[quote=“Boomer”]The only way for my family and I to be recognized as equal human beings in Taiwan is to relinquish our nationalities and become part of the one true non nation of the Republic of China.
Hmmmmm…[/quote]
Why thinking so long? Don’t you love Taiwan? Why are you still here after all these years if you don’t love it? 
If you are only here to make money then what’s the big deal? Stay here, earn it, and then retire back home. Why do you need to keep another passport if you plan on making this your home - are you a ‘renter’ or a ‘buyer’??
I am neither a renter nor a buyer. I am a resident. I don’t love Taiwan and probably never will.
I am thinking about what it would take to make the head of the Republic of China apologize to all the foreign residents in Taiwan and grant them equal rights.
Boomer…has anyone ever told you life is too short to be unhappy or miserable. Why stay here if you don’t like it? I am not being nasty…I am serious…I have never ever understood this.
Just a quick look at the U.S. system and I really appreciate the Taiwan system better. It is more efficient and cost effective…a person caught violating the purpose of his visa is deported within 7 days. Illegal aliens caught up in a sweep are deported. No lengthy or costly appeals process where the government is forced to spend millions of dollars trying to deport illegal aliens or law-breakers.
How can you have equal rights without equal responsiblity? Perhaps if you volunteer for a 25 % cut in pay (at the very least to come down to the local level), put on a uniform and do your military service the government will start to think about it.
But the reality of the matter is, you (or any other non-Asian person) will never be equal in the eyes of the citizens and will always be a foreigner.
BTW…we have human rights…just not citizen’s rights. 
My family is here.
Then read about [url=Worst accident/spill you've witnessed/been in? - #9 by Dangermouse one[/url] for a start…[/quote]
I have a similar story. 12 years ago, some dimwit runs a red light, I hit him broadside (we were both on scooters). I was told that if I didn’t pay him NT$30,000 that I would be deported. I paid, even though the other guy had run a red light. So much for law, eh?[/quote]
Both of these examples occurred sometime ago… 
Are they still relevant? Has it happened recently?
My family is here.[/quote]
But you said…[quote]The only way for my family and I to be recognized as equal human beings in Taiwan is to relinquish our nationalities and become part of the one true non nation of the Republic of China. [/quote]
Your family is not mobile?
Sorry I guess it’s really obvious, you’re here because you want to be here. Plain and simple.
A family by it’s very nature is more than one person. I can think of a thousand places I would rather be than sitting here in Taiwan trying to reason with you.
What I would like to do is change things for foreigners on Taiwan and I will not be going anywhere until I do that.