NewBees vs. Old Timers

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
61

Hogwash. If one is what one ingests, then all foods, and most especially their level of sanitary preparation, are most assuredly not equal. Hence, it’s quite reasonable to debate the pros & cons of ANY culture’s food. Anything to do with taste and it’s inherent subjectivity is surely open to debate.

“Shove it in yer gob.”
There’s limey food for you. A culture whose food has historically been deemed downright nasty by any standard, that the inbred elites that made up British aristocracy had to hack out an world empire just to improve the wretched slop that they had to force down their gin-sotted gullets.[/quote]

Wait. GOOD food is a topic for debate. Food is not. And Taiwanese food is most assuredly rarely good food. There is no point discussing which shit looks better on a plate. And In Taiwan you can find anything, from crappy food to great food really easily.[/quote]
If good food is open to debate, then surely the same can be said about bad (or perceived as such) food. Just like good and bad music, politics, and thermal underwear. It’s all in the subjective interpretation, nutrition factors aside.
And indeed is it not true that there is considerably more to food than just how it looks on a plate? Or in a small paper lunchbox, or dangling plastic soupbag?

62

[quote=“TomHill”][quote=“the chief”]
That’s just your vagina talking…[/quote]

Hey which is better bro fried chickens feet, or fish eyeballs?[/quote]

Chicken’s feet, 'cos when the real ropy tendons get stuck between your teeth, you can use the claws to get them out.
Last weekend we were in Keelung, and at lunch we got this big fuckoff iridescent pink fried garoupa or summit, and the eyeballs were all like white and floaty and shit, and the chieflette says “Hey dad, eat one of those eyeballs.” and I said “What do I look like, Ivan fucking Denisovich over here??”
She didn’t get it, and my wife wouldn’t talk to me for 3 hours because I cussed in front of the kid.
Small price to pay for quality humour, I reckon.

ETA:

Oh man, ever since I saw Born On the Fourth Of July, I have been unable to eat soup out of a bag…

63

[quote=“the chief”]

Oh man, ever since I saw Born On the Fourth Of July, I have been unable to eat soup out of a bag…[/quote]
Refresh my memory on that score.
Myself, it reminds of one of eating hot puke fresh from a pitching & rolling small ferry ride. Echoes of the vomit boat to Green Island on a windy winter day.

64

[quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“the chief”]

Oh man, ever since I saw Born On the Fourth Of July, I have been unable to eat soup out of a bag…[/quote]
Refresh my memory on that score.
Myself, it reminds of one of eating hot puke fresh from a pitching & rolling small ferry ride. Echoes of the vomit boat to Green Island on a windy winter day.[/quote]

Hint: It’s just before he goes to the 4th of July parade, after he comes home…

65

Some image from the hospital scene?

66

Mr TomHill claims that newbies don’t require old-timers as things in Taiwan are relatively civilized; and I would agree with him fully. However; Mr TomHill has neglected to give credit to the fact that his easy existence as a newbie was to a greater or lesser extent due to the contributions of those, “old-timers", that came before him.

A good example is some gossip related to me by my wife. Apparently my wife’s father’s eldest brother’s eldest son’s daughter, (no joke, age gaps mean she is about 5yrs younger than myself, who is younger than the avg. Forumosa age), wants to marry a foreigner and the family accepted without hesitation. Why I asked? “Because of us”, was the reply given to me by my wife. I was a bit stunned. It seems that when I didn’t turn out to be a wastrel drunk, who would divorce and abandon his wife; when it turned out that I would not run-off overseas, stealing their daughter, and would still come home for CNY; when I would have grandchildren and they would not be culturally misadjusted maniacs whom only spoke English; it seems that I alleviated many of their fears about foreigners. Thus, thanks to the example set by moi, when this hapless foreigner asked for their daughter, then instantly thought of me and said yes.

I realize this is a high bar they set…but, I do hope whomever marries my distant relative doesn’t fuck-up my reputation….effing newbies…God know, I hope he understands what he’s in for.

67

[quote=“Elegua”]Mr TomHill claims that newbies don’t require old-timers as things in Taiwan are relatively civilized; and I would agree with him fully. However; Mr TomHill has neglected to give credit to the fact that his easy existence as a newbie was to a greater or lesser extent due to the contributions of those, “old-timers", that came before him.

A good example is some gossip related to me by my wife. Apparently my wife’s father’s eldest brother’s eldest son’s daughter, (no joke, age gaps mean she is about 5yrs younger than myself, who is younger than the avg. Forumosa age), wants to marry a foreigner and the family accepted without hesitation. Why I asked? “Because of us”, was the reply given to me by my wife. I was a bit stunned. It seems that when I didn’t turn out to be a wastrel drunk, who would divorce and abandon his wife; when it turned out that I would not run-off overseas, stealing their daughter, and would still come home for CNY; when I would have grandchildren and they would not be culturally misadjusted maniacs whom only spoke English; it seems that I alleviated many of their fears about foreigners. Thus, thanks to the example set by moi, when this hapless foreigner asked for their daughter, then instantly thought of me and said yes.

I realize this is a high bar they set…but, I do hope whomever marries my distant relative doesn’t fuck-up my reputation….effing newbies…God know, I hope he understands what he’s in for.[/quote]

Glad you agree… However… I don’t think the internet was created by ex-pats. The global market has exploded Elegua and thus a city like Taipei is not so hard to get things done in. Even Osaka, Japan back in 1997 was like another planet. I didn’t have internet, a mobile phone, a digital camera. It was all hand written letters etc. Things were slower, information was harder to come by. Dude, we are communicating and I have no clue who you are, or where you live. That shows how much the world has opened up. And any trail blazers in Shalu where I set up my own empire within about 10 seconds must have left all their shit in the street, cos that town is a D.U.M.P.
I say fuck history. Live your own mistake filled life today!

68

[quote=“Buttercup”][quote=“TheGingerMan”]

“Shove it in yer gob.”
There’s limey food for you. A culture whose food has historically been deemed downright nasty by any standard, that the inbred elites that made up British aristocracy had to hack out an world empire just to improve the wretched slop that they had to force down their gin-sotted gullets.[/quote]

Hey, take the race hate down a notch!

My Italian pal loves Brit food because it’s so eclectic and assimilative. While he likes Italian food very much, he goes to London just to eat. And saying ‘yebbut, that’s not BRITISH food’ is like saying the people who cook it aren’t British either: they are and it is.

The differrence is, that Brits tend to be less focused on stuff like that. Pleasure and comfort are good things, but they shouldn’t rule your life. The Italian frequently comments on how few Brits use umbrellas. It’s the same way of thinking. It’s considered effete, lazy and selfish to mess around feeding yourself elegantly prepared dishes three times a day, every day.[/quote]

Jamie Oliver seems pretty busy to me…

69

[quote=“headhonchoII”]
Jamie Oliver seems pretty busy to me…[/quote]

He is the one celeb chef I do have an issue with. Telling us what to eat. Teling us to shop in Sainsburys. Fuck off Oliver. I like your food, but I take issue with your agenda. Let me eat turkey twizzlers till I vomit!

70

[quote=“TomHill”][quote=“Elegua”]Mr TomHill claims that newbies don’t require old-timers as things in Taiwan are relatively civilized; and I would agree with him fully. However; Mr TomHill has neglected to give credit to the fact that his easy existence as a newbie was to a greater or lesser extent due to the contributions of those, “old-timers", that came before him.

A good example is some gossip related to me by my wife. Apparently my wife’s father’s eldest brother’s eldest son’s daughter, (no joke, age gaps mean she is about 5yrs younger than myself, who is younger than the avg. Forumosa age), wants to marry a foreigner and the family accepted without hesitation. Why I asked? “Because of us”, was the reply given to me by my wife. I was a bit stunned. It seems that when I didn’t turn out to be a wastrel drunk, who would divorce and abandon his wife; when it turned out that I would not run-off overseas, stealing their daughter, and would still come home for CNY; when I would have grandchildren and they would not be culturally misadjusted maniacs whom only spoke English; it seems that I alleviated many of their fears about foreigners. Thus, thanks to the example set by moi, when this hapless foreigner asked for their daughter, then instantly thought of me and said yes.

I realize this is a high bar they set…but, I do hope whomever marries my distant relative doesn’t fuck-up my reputation….effing newbies…God know, I hope he understands what he’s in for.[/quote]

Glad you agree… However… I don’t think the internet was created by ex-pats. The global market has exploded Elegua and thus a city like Taipei is not so hard to get things done in. Even Osaka, Japan back in 1997 was like another planet. I didn’t have internet, a mobile phone, a digital camera. It was all hand written letters etc. Things were slower, information was harder to come by. Dude, we are communicating and I have no clue who you are, or where you live. That shows how much the world has opened up. And any trail blazers in Shalu where I set up my own empire within about 10 seconds must have left all their shit in the street, cos that town is a D.U.M.P.
I say fuck history. Live your own mistake filled life today![/quote]

Sure enough , but like Charleton Heston said in Soilent Green, “It’s made out of people”. Thus don’t overlook the cultural/human element.

BTW: Osaka is still another planet to me. I keep feeling like I’m trapped in a Ultraman alternative, individually packaged universe.

As for Oliver - I hope that annoying boyscout gets cannolied by that obnoxious prick Gordon Ramsey - maybe he can get Nigella too while he’s at it.

71

[quote=“Elegua”]
Sure enough , but like Charleton Heston said in Soilent Green, “It’s made out of people”.

BTW: Osaka is still another planet to me. I keep feeling like I’m trapped in a Ultraman alternative, individually packaged universe[/quote]

Well, yes, Kansai people (im getting all nostalgic) are an unusual bunch. But the internet etc has made stuff so much easier. In Japan how long to figure out you have to buy a ticket of your meal, then queue to get your meal with the ticket? How long before I found pepperoni pizza, or even a frigging sandwich. It took nearly two months to get a turkey for christmas, and I had to travel to Kobe to pick the ruddy thing up. Not only does Taiwan have a proliferation of Western goods now, the internet makes it virtually impossible to go out and have a difficult experience. Nowadays I can ask where sour cream is, get given a map, and even told the Chinese to say when I am in the shop before I even leave my room. This website, for example, a shining resource that it is, takes away the difficulty and excitement of hacking your way through mistake after mistake. Gone are the days of making your own caesar salad.

I think two new things: 1) Old timers should be asking newbees for help! 2) The internet and globalisation are robbing humans of real mistake filled interactions.

72

I despise Jamie Oliver. He has no restaurants in the North of England. The Italian don’t rate his food, but I quite liked it. Someone else paid for it …

73

[quote=“TomHill”][quote=“Elegua”]
Sure enough , but like Charleton Heston said in Soilent Green, “It’s made out of people”.

BTW: Osaka is still another planet to me. I keep feeling like I’m trapped in a Ultraman alternative, individually packaged universe[/quote]

Well, yes, Kansai people (im getting all nostalgic) are an unusual bunch. But the internet etc has made stuff so much easier. In Japan how long to figure out you have to buy a ticket of your meal, then queue to get your meal with the ticket? How long before I found pepperoni pizza, or even a frigging sandwich. It took nearly two months to get a turkey for christmas, and I had to travel to Kobe to pick the ruddy thing up. Not only does Taiwan have a proliferation of Western goods now, the internet makes it virtually impossible to go out and have a difficult experience. Nowadays I can ask where sour cream is, get given a map, and even told the Chinese to say when I am in the shop before I even leave my room. This website, for example, a shining resource that it is, takes away the difficulty and excitement of hacking your way through mistake after mistake. Gone are the days of making your own caesar salad.

I think two new things: 1) Old timers should be asking newbees for help! 2) The internet and globalisation are robbing humans of real mistake filled interactions.[/quote]

I agree with point 2 whole heartedly. There’s no fun anymore in pre-packaged answers and experience. Everything is been-there-done-that-buy-the-Fodors-Guide. It’s kind of sad really…to get off grid you have to get really lost.

As for point 1 - don’t be fooled by technology - The internet is a great starting point. HUMINT in key. I can’t believe you actually lived in Shalu and still retain some semblance of sanity. Any old-timer would have told you that, (though there is always some who would have told you it was great). I will always make my own Ceasar Salad because it is mine.

74

TomHill, you are right, as ever.

I wouldn’t change my days in ChonBuri/East Bangkok for anything. I had to count the streets so I could remember where to get off the songtheow: no romanisation of street names. I took care of a flooded apartment with no electricity completely by myself with only a dictionary to help me. Was it comfortable? No, but so what.

Taiwan’s not a ‘difficult’ place to navigate. Googling your entire life before you live it is a sad waste.

75

I still have all my fingers and toes, but I did leave a tooth in that town. And I threw quite a lot of ‘shit soup’ into their drains.

76

First unless, I lost some social skills during my time in Taiwan. I find foreigners are not so friendly towards others. Maybe, I’m far away from foreigners and can’t find my niche. But I find that as a work/study person on a kibbutz or even a traveler in Europe we were friendly and helpful to each other and drank tea/beer at each other’s rooms even if we really didn’t like each other. In fact, years later, we missed not liking each other.

Now, New Bee’s come here with rose colored glasses. Up to a few years ago I would warn new comers in my village about the #1 bushi ban scam {We take care of your taxes, no worries, which leads to your employer reporting on your (US equivalent of a W2) tax form that you owed no taxes because you made less than the taxable limit, leaving your employer with around ten thousand dollars in his pocket}
I realized this was futile when once I was in my new foreign friends appartment. He had a large family and I was jumping up and down trying to warning him giving myself a heart attack. Then it hit me… It will be his problem, not mine. So we just enjoyed our evening coffees occasionally. At least I said… get receipts for your pay…

On schedule, six month later… I get the phone call… Hey, Taiwan_student. Can I talk to you about…
And I would say… did I say this I this date. Did you do this… good. Didn’t do that… bad. Here’s what to do… This happened twice.

Now, I’m sort of… cheering the locals… go for it!!!

Also… yuck… these local bosses now seem to be learning! They seem to be treating newbees fairly now… (Last two years)
Foul! I had to worry about work rights. I had to call on the mafia of the family to threaten bad things to get my pay. I had to deal with the anxiety about my children not being Taiwan citizens. It seems new bees are having an easy good time…

Even in America… you are supposed to get a bad time the first few years then give hell to the newcomers…

77

Ah the centuries old English tradition of f***ing up the newboys. :smiling_imp:
Went through that crap in high school, varsity and the navy. When my boss tried to pull a fast one when I first came here I told him, I think I’m getting screwed, perhaps I’ll get a better deal elsewhere.
We came to an amicable agreement regarding taxes and wages.

78

[quote=“douglas@taichungpaws.org”]I feel “it”. I still feel the life, the energy, the pulse of Taiwan society. Perhaps I don’t love the crowds as much as when I was young. And I have never enjoyed the noise. But Taiwan is alive. I still feel it. Sometimes I get angry and sometimes I want to go “home” (which is either my apt. here or my own country, depending on the strength of the frustration). But I have a home… here in Taichung. And if I want to go somewhere else, I will.

Do you feel “it”? Maybe that’s why you are here still. Maybe that’s why you aren’t.[/quote]

Bingo. What he said. :bravo: (except for the Taichung part)

79

Just about every week, there is a newbie problem that is asked about that has been asked and answered so many times that I get frustrated. So many warnings and so little heed. Now, I try occasionally but if newbies want to re-invent the wheel, hell, let them. The airport is but a short distance away.

80

I dunno. Newbies. I didn’t have a computer when I moved to any of the places I’ve lived. Taiwan isn’t river tracing in the Congo. Don’t be wet and stop asking stupid questions!

And ‘it’ is within you, not in a place. If your energy comes from without, you’ll be in for a shock when you are not in that environment any more.