Not about Royal Nazis

Really time for my “German history thread”. If I make it too boring, it will be found on the flounder channel :blush:

Screaming Jesus, you are invited. I think your political world focusses on German history so maybe you read my view and then try to tell me where I was wrong.

So far I think you will find your way of thinking in my narratation. I mean right now you stick 100% to the Jewish-world conspriracy way of thinking. I do not want to convince you to my viewpoint. But I found sticking 100% to other people’s belief is always wrong. So hope I get a questionmark in your thinking sometime.
A little guy called Adolf Hitler will be one of the heros of my story. Hero in a literature - scientific way, which means “the central character”. Or one of them.

If the format for the show is not appropiate we can dumb it to the flounderfishes. Otherwise everyone should give her`s or his comments.

Official history demonizes Hitler and claims his mind cannot be understood. I claim to understand. After reading his book “Mein Kampf” I think it is so obvious what is going on in his mind, I wonder why not everybody noticed it.
`Til later…

Vannyel, your complete lack of intelligence is showing. There is NO Jewish “community.” There are millions of Jews around the world, in Europe, the Americas and Israel, who are individuals who live and work and play just like you do. For you to say “more likely a group of blah blah blah…” what patent nonsense that borders on the you know what. You obviously do not like Jews. Get over it, pal. What did they ever do to YOU?

As for honest_bob and Screaming Jesus: honest bob, just ignore screamer Jesus. He is a nutcase times ten. He posts here just to get people like you angry. Ignore him. He is harmless. [btw, good article from the Spectator by Paul Johnson, yes! Thanks for the link!]

As for real Nazis, the late Leon Goldensohn may be the psychiatrist with the world’s biggest secret: What were those Nazis ‘‘thinking’’? A new book has some answers…

[WARNING: Vannyel and Screaming Jesus, do not read at work!]

In 1946, Leon Goldensohn, a psychiatrist from Newark, N.J., spent six months conducting lengthy interviews with dozens of Nazis during the Nuremberg trials. Unfortunately, he died before he could write a book about the experience. But now, nearly 60 years after the trials, thanks to his brother, Goldensohn’s copious and detailed notes are the basis of a new tome, Nuremberg Interviews.

Goldensohn served as psychiatrist for the U.S. Army’s 63rd Division in France and Germany during WWII. After the war he was stationed at Nuremberg Prison and assigned the job of monitoring the mental health of dozens of Nazis who were either charged with carrying out the genocide of the Jews or were witnesses in the war crimes trials. The group included Rudolf Hoess, the Auschwitz commandant; Hermann Goering, commander of the German air force; Joachim von Ribbentrop, the foreign minister, and Julius Streicher, editor of the antisemitic journal Der Sturmer. Readers are not informed of why Goldensohn, who was 34 at the time, was chosen to look after these Nazis. He replaced another psychiatrist about a month after the trials began, and spent a little more than six months in the first half of 1946 visiting the prisoners nearly every day.

The psychiatrist’s assignment was to observe the men, not treat them, and there are few interpretations of the comments made in the interviews. But the interviews themselves are revealing.

When Hoess talked candidly about sending an estimated 2.5 million people to their deaths in the gas chambers of Auschwitz alone, Goldensohn inquired as to whether it troubled him to kill children the same age as his own kids with his wife and children living there at the concentration camp. Hoess responded with a line that leaves readers shaking their heads: “I didn’t personally murder anybody. I was just the director of the extermination program …”

Another stunning moment in the book occurs when Goering, who declared that “nobody knows the real Goering,” informed the psychiatrist that the genocide carried out by the Third Reich was at odds with his personal “chivalric code.” The air force commander told Goldensohn: “I revere women, and I think it unsportsmanlike to kill children.”

Moreover, the war criminals who were close to the Fuhrer had a desire, it seems, to have their sense of what Hitler was all about become part of the historical record; accordingly, they opened up, to varying degrees, to Goldensohn, who became a sort of medium for the passing on of the information.

Hans Frank, Hitler’s personal lawyer, spoke of the dictator’s abnormal sexual needs. Frank was convinced that Hitler turned to cruelty and sadism as a substitute for the love of a woman. Goldensohn noted that Ribbentrop, a difficult man to get to know, was engaged in a calculated effort to help build the myth of Hitler’s magnetism.

Eli Goldensohn believes the Nazis opened up to his now deceased brother because the army psychiatrist was reserved and “fundamentally a gentleman. He was intelligent and he was able to meet them on any level.”

PS: Now if only Vannyel and SJ could open up and tell us what is bothering them, too. Some hidden childhood trauma? Some teenage slight? Some adult misfortunes? Aha, blame the Jews! Works every time!

That’s a good article from Paul Johnson in the Spectator, Screaming Jesus. “Never again” is easy to say but nobody apparently listens to their own advice. It has happend again, in Cambodia, Indonesia, China, the U.S.S.R., Rwanda, the Sudan, the former Yugoslavia, North Korea. I was watching an episode of the West Wing and one of the characters, angry at government aid sent to some barbaric Middle Eastern nation, asked a WWII veteran what he would think if the Nazis were alive and well in the year 2005 and we were supporting them. Well, we are. Our governments, not just the U.S. but Germany, France, the U.K., etc, support and aid governments like Saudi Arabia. It makes me angry that because of oil my tax dollars are spent propping up medieval despotisms. [/b]

Whoever the mass murderer is/was, I suppose it would depend on one’s purpose. For example, the main character in Man in the Glass Booth pretended to be an SS officer (which included dressing up in the uniform), when in fact he was a Jewish businessman who had survived the Holocaust.

The play won a Tony in 1968. The movie was put out by the American Film Theater in 1975.

The play was written by this guy, Captain Quint (Robert Shaw) of Jaws:

In Prince Harry’s case, I think the purpose was f*rt-a**ing around.

In Comrade Stalin’s case, I think the purpose is irony (mixed with maybe a little f*rt-a**ing around).

My Pavlovian/Skinnerian responses seem to differ from y’all’s, in that they tend more to involve situations than symbols. I figure if there’s a next Hitler, chances are he’s not gonna re-tread the funny mustache/swastika routine (but won’t it be nice if he does? then we can easily spot him).

But a defeated, formerly powerful autocracy with a weak, corrupt democracy and a chaotic social order (Weimar Germany and the Russian Federation)–now that’s disturbing to me (prob’ly just a knee-jerk response on my part).

Oh, and talk of nation-building during a military adventure/insurgency (I hope this one’s just a knee-jerk response on my part).

Actual review:

“The Man in the Glass Booth” is a film based on a play by Robert Shaw, directed by Arthur Hiller . It’s the story of Arthur Goldman, a wealthy Jewish industrialist living in penthouse seclusion overlooking Central Park. When we first meet him, he’s a paranoid personality, with his rants and raves, repeated sightings of a blue car down on the street which he feels is waiting for him, and conspiracy theories. Then one day men with guns burst into his apartment and announce that they’re arresting him for Nazi war crimes. Taken back to Israel, it turns out that he’s believed to be Colonel Dorff from the SS, and that he played a key part in the extermination of the Jews. He’s put on trial - and, refusing legal aid, defends himself from a glass booth in the middle of the courtroom, into which he has been placed supposedly for his own protection. As the trial progresses, revelations build to a stunning climax."

“Ultimately, a spectator at the trial announces that Goldman is really a Jew (the telltale SS tattoo in his armpit turns out to be a self-inflicted cigar burn). The denouement makes the playwright seem like a bumbling amateur and the Israeli secret agents as incredibly inept. Goldman, it appears, was a kind of Christ-surrogate who wanted to be martyred so that his people might feel that some fitting atonement had been made for the monstrous wrongs done them. But Shaw’s conception of martyrdom makes it seem less a matter of conscience than an attention-getting device on a grandiose scale. Some crimes—and the murder of the Jews is certainly one—dwarf atonement and defy retributive justice. A token of evil can be caged in a glass booth, but evil itself can never be exorcised there.”

Vannyel, your complete lack of intelligence is showing. There is NO Jewish “community.” There are millions of Jews around the world, in Europe, the Americas and Israel, who are individuals who live and work and play just like you do. For you to say “more likely a group of blah blah blah…” what patent nonsense that borders on the you know what. You obviously do not like Jews. Get over it, pal. What did they ever do to YOU?

[quote]
My lack of intelligence? At least I know the meaning of the word community. And spare me your self-righteous indignation - I have told you over and over again I don’t hate anyone. You’re the one that keeps pedaling that crap. And you keep asking me that stupid question - what did they ever do to you?? Well obviously since I don’t hate them they must not have done anything to me. Why would you assume that they had? Just like you assume I hate them without me ever saying a single word expressing my hatred toward them.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=community

[quote]The World Jewish Congress has descriptive web pages for Jewish communities in 120 countries around the world.
The European Council of Jewish Communities coordinates Jewish organizations in 35 countries throughout Europe.
[/quote][/quote][/quote]
shamash.org/trb/judaism.html#comm

And these organizations don’t exist, right?
ajhs.org/index.cfm
adl.org/
wjc.org.il/

Please stop taking my presentation of facts and twisting it into some sort of ‘you hate Jews’ spiel. I am just presenting facts since obviously you have trouble finding them on your own.

Vannyel, understand. Thanks for all your posts, even though we disagree, I hope everyone has learned something. I will say no more.

[quote=“lane119”] It’s the story of Arthur Goldman. . . . When we first meet him, he’s a paranoid personality, with his rants and raves, repeated sightings of a blue car down on the street which he feels is waiting for him, and conspiracy theories.[/quote] But lane119, a paranoid is a person who has the delusion that people are out to get him. Some people actually conspired to get the character Goldman, got him, and took him to Israel for trial. As for rants and raves, why yes, he ranted and raved: Among other things, he frequently baited his Jewish aide-de-camp with anti-Semitic remarks, he chanted “Arbeit Macht Frei!” (“Work Makes Free!” deceptive sign posted in the camps) at the top of his lungs while working out in a posh New York gym, and after being interviewed by the female Israeli state prosecutor before going on trial for his life, he remarked, “Not bad t*ts for a state prosecutor!”

Lane, Hamlet, in the play of that name, ranted and raved like a madman, and maybe he was. But King Claudius really did become king by murdering Hamlet’s father. And Claudius really was out to get Hamlet.

Back to Man in the Glass Booth: At the end of the movie, we discover that Goldman set the whole thing up. He falsified records in Argentina in order to lead the Israelis to him. And yes, he was suffering from a mental illness, the one called survivor’s guilt.

Actual viewer, when the movie came out in '75: xp+10K

Who shall mourn for the Moabs, the Amorites, the ones who inhabited the Promised Land, before it was given away, when all their men were put to the sword, when all male children, and all women, not virgins, were slaughtered just for being born a Moab, an Amorite, and for not following the God of Abraham.

How long should we mourn? How long should we remember? How far back should we go? How many peoples have been wiped out by the ancestors of those that survive today. Who are the innocent? Who the guilty?

As lane… says Screaming’ is only “teasing me”, so trolling, I will gladly go back to sleep and ignore everything I ever heard here.

Playing with you is no fun,

says little Bob

[quote=“Jack Burton”]Who shall mourn for the Moabs, the Amorites, the ones who inhabited the Promised Land, before it was given away, when all their men were put to the sword, when all male children, and all women, not virgins, were slaughtered just for being born a Moab, an Amorite, and for not following the God of Abraham.

How long should we mourn? How long should we remember? How far back should we go? How many peoples have been wiped out by the ancestors of those that survive today. Who are the innocent? Who the guilty?[/quote]

That’s exactly why I have zero respect for Judaism as a religion. If you take the Old Testament at face value, Jehovah was a homicidal maniac who encouraged the Jews to commit genocide against any other tribe that got in their way. Israel owes the Egyptians compensation for slaughtering all their first-born and sending a plague of locusts against them.

I think it was Mark Twain who said, “The Old Testament was God before he got religion.”

[quote=“hexuan”]When I was 20 I was in Taiwan renting my own flat, teaching English, studying, drinking, and nobbing birds. That is “normal” for a 20-year old. Dressing up like a f***ing Nazi is not in any way “normal” for a 20-year old.
How many 20-year olds, no, how many people of any age have any of you ever seen dress up as Nazis at parties ? Jesus. :loco:[/quote]

Aaaahhhh but you were a 20-year-old in Taiwan. In my early 20s I can hardly remember a varsity fancy-dress party without a swastika or some-or-other WW II uniform (and others) somewhere. That was in South Africa. (At that time, what pissed me off personally were the white guys in Zulu dress - how utterly disrespectful!) In my late 20s, in England, the same party attire was the norm. And in my 30s in Europe the same applied. I even was served by a waiter dressed as Hitler in a club in Moscow!! I don’t think anybody meant it as being supportive of the Nazis or the holocaust or the war.

I agree that Harry made a grave mistake by wearing the uniform, seeing that he is, after all, third in line to the British throne and that the issue was sure to be pulled out of all proportion.

Don’t get me wrong: I do not agree with what Hitler did and I am in no way an admirer. BUT shouldn’t this type of thing galvanize people into action to prevent the same thing happening RIGHT NOW (think Korea, Sudan) rather than them getting heart attacks and into fights about something that happened (and some say didn’t happen) 60 years ago?

With all respect :s

And just for the record, I don’t think the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians is a very positive thing.

[quote=“RubiconBojador”]

That’s exactly why I have zero respect for Judaism as a religion. If you take the Old Testament at face value, Jehovah was a homicidal maniac who encouraged the Jews to commit genocide against any other tribe that got in their way. Israel owes the Egyptians compensation for slaughtering all their first-born and sending a plague of locusts against them.I think it was Mark Twain who said, “The Old Testament was God before he got religion.”[/quote]

You got it right there. All three Middle East religions – beginning with Judaism, and then Islam and Christianity – I have zero respect for. The Old Testament was God before he got religion, and the New Testament is God after he got strung up on the cross. Sure.

They are all silly religions. Why we still debate this crap 2000 years later is beyond me. But yes, Jehovah was a homicidal maniac. Allah wasn’t much better, and Jesus was a sado-masochistic faker.

But we are stuck with these myths for the time being. Sad to say. That’s what Iraq is all about. This shit we inherited.

By the way, the headline I loved best about Harry was in the China Post the other day:

“Prince Harry’s Wardrobe Malfunction”

Loved it. From Janet Jackson to Prince Harry! Will the wonders of the English language never cease?

And just for the record, I don’t think the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians is a very positive thing.

A side note:

Today’s news from USA:

The USA Virginia Military Institute officials are investigating a 2004 barracks Halloween observance during which cadets dressed as Nazi soldiers, drag queens and a starving African.

Officials at the Lexington college were alerted to the behavior when someone referred them to an Internet message board on which four photographs of the costumed men are posted.

Google for the story.

roanoke.com/news/roanoke/17647.html