Not happy with my kill switch. Need wiring instructions

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

I have a kill switch on my scooter located in a handy place, and my ignition is worn out so the key comes out of the ignition switch in the “on” position so I never use the key anymore unless I park the scooter outside for extended periods of time. I mostly hit the kill switch to turn off the scooter, and I put the key in the ignition only the odd time to lock the handlebars when I park the scooter in an unsafe area

My battery lasted months like that, but it finally died because the alarm system drains the battery if the ignition isn’t turned off. The kill switch doesn’t kill the instruments such as flashers, horn and starter. It just kills the ignition coil as most kill switch do.

I need to re-wire my kill switch so that it will act as if I turned the bike off with the key so that I don’t drain my battery with the alarm system. I’m months in the habit of just using the kill switch, and I didn’t think that it drained the battery to leave the ignition ON, but it does. This morning, I found my bike parked with the ignition ON again as I turned the bike off with the kill switch again last night. I have a new battery now(I killed a new battery in 6 months with this habit) so the bike started fine, but I know I’m killing my battery sooner than I should with this bad habit. The thing is, I like it. It’s quick and much easier than using the key every time, so I want to wire this right.

My scooter is a Yamaha BWS 100cc.

I can’t kill the power right off the battery either because the alarm system needs power to be functional. I need to make my kill switch do the same job as the ignition key. Is it possible, and have you got any idea how to do that?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: As of now, the alarm system doesn’t work when I just kill the coil because the alarm doesn’t kick in until I turn the ignition off with the key. In other words, the ignition stays on, only the coil is disabled so the alarm system remains disabled. If I wire the kill switch to work like the ignition key, the alarm will sound and the scooter will not start when someone flick the kill switch on without disabling the alarm system with the remote control first. That’s what I need.

2

My BWS doesn’t have a separate kill switch, but I find it convenient enough to use the key. If I were in your position, I’d just buy another ignition/key set.

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That would not be a problem, and it’s not that expensive. But like I said, I like it like that. Much faster, and no keys dangling off the ignition when I ride. When I park the bike, people assume that the ignition is turned off since there is no key in the ignition. It’s lovely.

It’s strange… I owned a Sanyang farmer bike, a NSR, and a scooter in Taiwan. All three bikes ended up with a worn out ignition where the key would just come out of the ignition when turned to ON position. I’m used to not having a key in the ignition, and I like it that way.

All I need to know is how to test with a test light which wire to install the switch on. I tried that before but it’s confusing because when I turn the key on, many wires become live. Not sure which one is the main power to the ignition.

I like playing with this anyways. Much more fun than to just replace the ignition. :wink:

Maybe I’ll just send redwagon a pm with a link to this thread… :smiley:

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Hi Butthead, Beavis here again. In my current somnolent state I had an idea about busting the tumblers out of a working ignition, so that you could switch it on and off easily. I don’t like dangling keys either.

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[quote=“Salvatore Armani”]Hi Butthead, Beavis here again. In my current somnolent state I had an idea about busting the tumblers out of a working ignition, so that you could switch it on and off easily. I don’t like dangling keys either.[/quote]:lol:

I’m not sure how you would go about doing that without leaving signs of a damaged ignition. I’m sure it’s possible, though. Might have to open up the ignition and remove the tumblers. But yeah, I find it way better. My old boss in Canada always broke the keys in the ignition of his vehicles, and he hid a key behind the gas cap little door in case. (just to open the doors) He just carried the remote control with him. Brand new Lexus with the key snapped in the ignition. :noway: (The key is the remote control itself on some Lexus) He did the same with a brand new F350 Diesel at the time.

If you don’t have an alarm system, a regular kill switch is the way to go. Then you only need the key to lock the handlebars.

My challenge is a bit more complicated than that, but I’m sure it’s doable. :wink:

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Why don’t you simply add another alarm switch as well as the ignition? That would probably be the fastest way, and simplest to find. I don’t know why you wouldn’t want to purchase a new ignition barrel though…

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[quote=“sulavaca”]Why don’t you simply add another alarm switch as well as the ignition? That would probably be the fastest way, and simplest to find. I don’t know why you wouldn’t want to purchase a new ignition barrel though…[/quote]Maybe a switch on the alarm would work to fool the alarm to think that the ignition is turned off, but then when someone flicks the kill switch, the alarm will not sound. It will remain fooled, and although the bike will not start, not good.

As for buying a new barrel, It’s twice now that you guys suggested this. You just don’t understand. The barrel works fine, it’s just that the key can be removed on ON position, and I like it. I don’t have to remove the key, and it will not fall off when I ride the scooter. There’s nothing really wrong with the barrel. Other keys do not work in it either. From there, I want to find a way to turn the bike off without having to use a key, ever,(using the kill switch instead) unless I want to lock the handlebars, and I want the alarm system to work when the key in ON, but the kill switch is OFF.

In other words, what I want is just a modification to make day to day city riding more convenient by combining security with not having to use a key. Note that if the alarm is not disabled and the ignition is turned on, the alarm will sound, but the bike will not start. The alarm system shuts the power to the coil if the bike is turned on before it’s disabled. If the kill switch can be wired to work like the ignition does, why would I bother using a key? It would be so much more convenient, and a pretty cool modification. Also, by doing that, the ignition will still work, so I would be able to use either the ignition, the kill switch, or both, which is a big addition to security. It’s a win-win situation if I get this wired properly.

8

BP,
Outboard motors have a kill switch like the one you want. I’m thinking of my old 1972 Johnson 40 horse motor… It’s wired up to ground out the spark to the plug, I believe.

My uncle has an old landscaping mower made by Loch… it’s a grand old piece of machinery incorporating a set of cutting reels, and the off switch is a kill switch: simply a strap of steel which you press down onto the spark plug lead. It interupts the spark and the mower stops.

9

Wow, why simple when it can be done the hard way… I’m with joesax here, I can’t understand why someone would want to go through all the hassle of modifying his scooter’s wiring just to avoid replacing a faulty ignition lock…

It might be worth to at least ask (That’s for free, usually.) what a new ignition might cost…

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[quote=“dl7und”]Wow, why simple when it can be done the hard way… I’m with joesax here, I can’t understand why someone would want to go through all the hassle of modifying his scooter’s wiring just to avoid replacing a faulty ignition lock…

It might be worth to at least ask (That’s for free, usually.) what a new ignition might cost…[/quote]My God! The ignition is NOT faulty. I repeat, the ignition is not faulty, the ignition is not faulty, the ignition is not faulty, the ignition is not faulty…

The alarm system drains the battery if I shut off the bike with it(the kill switch) only, so I have to use the NOT faulty ignition, and I don’t want to.

One more poster suggests I change the NOT faulty ignition, and I’m going to lose it… :help:

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:ponder:

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[quote=“dl7und”]… I’m with joesax here, I can’t understand why someone would want to go through all the hassle of modifying his scooter’s wiring just to avoid replacing a faulty ignition lock…

It might be worth to at least ask (That’s for free, usually.) what a new ignition might cost…[/quote]I understand that Bobepine doesn’t see his ignition as being faulty and wants a key-less scooter, though I personally find standard key/ignition systems perfectly convenient myself.

Anyway, he’s made it clear enough that wiring tips are what he wants, so I’m not going to post any more “tangential” stuff in this thread myself. I know how frustrating it can be when people answer every kind of question except the one you actually asked!

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I read what he asked for, but sometimes one doesn’t see the obvious solution - and that seems to be to replace the ignition lock. The only reason I could see for not using the key is replacing it with some RFID or bluetooth gimmick. I wouldn’t feel well, knowing my bike could be fired up by throwing a simple switch easily accessible to everyone…

But if he wishes: I guess you don’t have schematics for your scooter. So you might need to take off some your scooter’s wrapping to get to the back of the ignition lock. Get a voltmeter, put one probe on ground, with the other you test all wires attached to that lock.

If you’re lucky, you will find one of the wires may go from 0 to +12V when you switch ignition (or better power) on with the key, activating a relay. That is where you need to send +12V from the battery to, via your “kill” switch…

Though, I still don’t think that this is a good idea…

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There are quite a few wires that will show 12 volts when the ignition is turned on. That’s the problem. Not sure how to test to know which one to install the switch onto. I pmed redwagon, but he hasn’t opened the pm yet.

I understand that it would not be a good idea if I did not have an alarm system. But if I can wire the switch to work like the ignition, then it’s fine because one would need the alarm remote control to steal my scooter. As I said, if the ignition/properly wired kill switch is turned on before the alarm is disabled, the alarm will sound and the bike will not start as the alarm shuts the power/ground to the ignition coil.

In simple words, it would be like adding a second ignition altogether that works with a simple convenient switch. Both “ignitions” would have to be turned on for the bike to start as long as the alarm system is disabled first. I can’t see that being a bad idea… Hell, it’s double the security if I choose to turn the key off, the switch off, and turn on the alarm system. Like I said, the key ignition still works, it’s just that the key comes out when it’s on ON position. The tumblers are worn out, but not enough for any key to work in the switch. It’s perfect! :stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT: The ignition is faulty in the sense that the key can come out in any position, but it’s not faulty in terms of security. That’s why I say it’s not faulty. Who cares if the key can come out when turned to ON, as long as the key doesn’t fall out when I ride. No need to replace that ignition.

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[quote=“Salvatore Armani”]BP,
Outboard motors have a kill switch like the one you want. I’m thinking of my old 1972 Johnson 40 horse motor… It’s wired up to ground out the spark to the plug, I believe.

My uncle has an old landscaping mower made by Loch… it’s a grand old piece of machinery incorporating a set of cutting reels, and the off switch is a kill switch: simply a strap of steel which you press down onto the spark plug lead. It interupts the spark and the mower stops.[/quote]

That’s the kind of kill switch I currently have, and it’s no good to me. You see the way the alarm system works is when the power is shut off, the alarm kicks in automatically after ten seconds. (ignition only) If I enable the alarm with the remote control, in addition to having the automatic ignition alarm turned on, the motion sensor goes on. In other words, if I turn the bike off, the alarm always goes ON within 10 seconds. This is to enable you to go into a store like 7-11 for a few minutes without taking the keys out of the ignition. The motion sensor alarm needs to be enabled with the remote control, though as it doesn’t kick in automatically.

This said, if the key is turned on and I hit my kill switch, the plug/ignition coil loses its ground and and the bike will not start, but things like flashers, horn, starter, etc, do stay live which means that the alarm system doesn’t recognize the bike as being turned off, because it’s not.(even though the bike can not start) The kill switch kills the spark, but everything else stays on, so the automatic alarm system doesn’t kick in.

In addition to that, this alarm system has it’s own integrated kill switch… That means if the bike is running and I enable the alarm system, the alarm will sound and the spark will be shut off/the bike will die. This mean if I try to enable the alarm system when the key is turned ON and the kill switch OFF(The regular kill switch, not the alarm integrated kill switch; the one I usually use to turn off the bike as opposed to the ignition key) Then the alarm goes off because the alarm system recognize a bike in ON position.

So yeah… A regular kill switch like you mentioned above is what I already have, but it’s not compatible with the alarm system, so I still have to use the key whenever I park the scooter for more than a few minutes out of sight because I can not turn on the alarm otherwise, and the automatic alarm doesn’t kick in either.

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As I said, I don’t really like this procedure, but since it’s not my bike… If you have a few “hot” wires after turning the key, you can try to pull each of them out and check when the alarm is without power.

Or… I guess there is a connector close to your ignition. Remember the wires running 12V when the ignition key is set to “On” (not yet “Ignition”!), then check on your alarm module where power (+12V) comes in. Connect the “hot” wires at the ignition connector (connector pulled out) one by one to +12V and check which one powers your alarm module. I guess that is the one that you want to “kill” with your switch.

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[quote=“dl7und”]As I said, I don’t really like this procedure, but since it’s not my bike… If you have a few “hot” wires after turning the key, you can try to pull each of them out and check when the alarm is without power.

Or… I guess there is a connector close to your ignition. Remember the wires running 12V when the ignition key is set to “On” (not yet “Ignition”!), then check on your alarm module where power (+12V) comes in. Connect the “hot” wires at the ignition connector (connector pulled out) one by one to +12V and check which one powers your alarm module. I guess that is the one that you want to “kill” with your switch.[/quote]Opened up the cover on the scooter and did some tests with a test light. Seems to me that the ignition operates in a way that it doesn’t shut off the live wires ever, ON or OFF, and that’s how the alarm system manages to be ON when the ignition is off. In other words, the ignition disconnects the ground, and not the live wires. :ponder: This is so confusing! :s

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In that case your switch would need to connect the wires to the ground - or not, if it’s off. But I too am a bit confused now: Didn’t you say originally that your alarm module was draining the battery, that’s why you need a way to switch it off.

That shouldn’t be a serious problem, actually… Just interrupt the +12V supply to the module and pull to wires to your switch. Though, you should have the one or other small indicator light still operating then…

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[quote=“dl7und”]In that case your switch would need to connect the wires to the ground - or not, if it’s off. But I too am a bit confused now: Didn’t you say originally that your alarm module was draining the battery, that’s why you need a way to switch it off.[/quote] Yes, that’s what I think is happening, but I’m not entirely sure. Maybe it’s the fact that the horn, starter, flashers, remain live if the ignition is turned on that drains the battery, but I tend to think it’s the alarm system. It’s not the alarm system that needs to be turned off, it’s the ignition in order for the alarm system to kick in which is not supposed to be overly hard on the battery.

[quote]Though, you should have the one or other small indicator light still operating then…[/quote]I don’t understand. :frowning: And what do you mean by module? The ignition switch, or the alarm system?

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You can write off the horn, no current goes through there until you press the honky tonky switch. The same should apply for everything else. The only things I can think of are your alarm module, CDI and the one or other indicator light (power, oil, whatever).

Your alarm module. It should be a small box with a bunch of wires attached. If you have a multimeter, you could actually check how much power that module consumes, then you know for sure. You know how to measure currents? (meter has to be in the circuit, current needs to flow through the meter)