I need some insight or experiences you may have had here. I will be leaving my company for other endeavors after Chinese New Year. I want to leave in a friendly fashion and assist with finding a replacement but I am reluctant to at this point as I am due a hefty bonus right before the holiday. What also disturbs me is on my contract it states that bonuses may be modified due to organizational planning. Does anyone have experience with leaving a company around CNY and how if/or if not it affected your year-end Bonus? Thanks in advance!
Ooh man you will never see the money is too open your mouth. You have to play the game the local way. Make sure you have the bonus in the bank before you say a word.
Not only that but they might terminate you early and you could be out weeks of pay. Of course that is against labor law AFAIK (severance would be due) but that is a battle that you don’t have to fight.
Whether termination is legitimate depends on whether they can back up a claim of any of the situations listed in Articles 11 & 12 of the Labor Standards Act (unless you have a job that isn’t covered). If it’s Art. 12, you get nothing. If it’s Art. 11, they need to give advance notice plus job seeking leave (Art. 16, based on how long you’ve worked for them) and severance pay (Art. 17, also calculated by how long you’ve worked, or about 50% of that amount if you’re married to a Taiwanese). They can also forgo the notice period by giving you the salary for it anyway. Failure to pay severance pay within 30 days of an Art. 11 or Art. 14 termination leads to a minimum $300,000 fine – new this year, to give them that extra little incentive they may need. And severance pay is tax free in most cases, basically anything under $175k. (Art. 14 lets you quit if they’ve been cheating you.)
Assuming you haven’t committed an Art. 12 violation, and assuming the employer has a brain, you probably won’t be fired, but your bonus may be reduced.
If the bonus is somehow legally determined to be part of your salary (depending on your contract and/or the work rules and/or other documents referred to in the contract or work rules and/or other agreements you or your union or a “labor-management conference” signed), failure to pay the full amount leads to a minimum $20k fine, if you can prove it.
However, by default a year-end bonus is not counted as part of the salary/wage (Enforcement Rules of the LSA Art. 10), so they face no penalty at all for underpaying or even refusing to pay, except possibly breach of contract. (Year-end bonuses are required by LSA Art. 29, but that article goes unmentioned in the penal provisions.)
Whether termination is legitimate depends on whether they can back up a claim of any of the situations listed in Articles 11 & 12 of the Labor Standards Act (unless you have a job that isn’t covered). If it’s Art. 12, you get nothing. If it’s Art. 11, they need to give advance notice plus job seeking leave (Art. 16, based on how long you’ve worked for them) and severance pay (Art. 17, also calculated by how long you’ve worked, or about 50% of that amount if you’re married to a Taiwanese). They can also forgo the notice period by giving you the salary for it anyway. Failure to pay severance pay within 30 days of an Art. 11 or Art. 14 termination leads to a minimum $300,000 fine – new this year, to give them that extra little incentive they may need. And severance pay is tax free in most cases, basically anything under $175k. (Art. 14 lets you quit if they’ve been cheating you.)
Assuming you haven’t committed an Art. 12 violation, and assuming the employer has a brain, you probably won’t be fired, but your bonus may be reduced.
If the bonus is somehow legally determined to be part of your salary (depending on your contract and/or the work rules and/or other documents referred to in the contract or work rules and/or other agreements you or your union or a “labor-management conference” signed), failure to pay the full amount leads to a minimum $20k fine, if you can prove it.
However, by default a year-end bonus is not counted as part of the salary/wage (Enforcement Rules of the LSA Art. 10), so they face no penalty at all for underpaying or even refusing to pay, except possibly breach of contract. (Year-end bonuses are required by LSA Art. 29, but that article goes unmentioned in the penal provisions.)[/quote]
But it is a battle that you don’t have to fight if you wait until after CNY. That’s the point.
Yes. My point was that it’s a battle the company doesn’t have to fight if it relies on the allure of the bonus, and also a battle it doesn’t want to fight if it’s run by smart people, so it’s unlikely lukeduke would be fired for revealing his intention to resign, unless they have a reason to fire him anyway.
Yes. My point was that it’s a battle the company doesn’t have to fight if it relies on the allure of the bonus, and also a battle it doesn’t want to fight if it’s run by smart people, so it’s unlikely lukeduke would be fired for revealing his intention to resign, unless they have a reason to fire him anyway.[/quote]
I am uncertain as to whether you have ever worked in Taiwan when you make statements like these.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that the employer should automatically be presumed intelligent.
Clarified: it’s unlikely lukeduke would be fired for revealing his intention to resign, unless they have a reason to fire him anyway, and/or they have a clear contractual obligation to pay a much larger bonus than what his severance pay would be, and/or they’re idiots.
Don’t tell them until the bonus is in the bank. Simple. Being too nice will see you fucked over. Thank you for your honesty because you just saved us xxxx NT$ on your bonus.
Last year my friend wanted to quit her job but waited till after CNY due to the bonus issue. She knew that if she mentioned leaving before CNY she would receive nothing.
Her situation was weird though. She worked her ass off to please her bosses but the CNY bonus was determined by presentation day. Basically, all the staff in her department had to meet with the bosses and prove how hard they had worked that year; she was being made to beg for her bonus. If you didn’t convince them or if they didn’t like you then your reward was a pittance, but if you sucked up their ass, convinced them how good you had been, or if they liked you, you could look forward to a big red envelope.
In my opinion, the bonus culture here is too finely balanced. The reward is often arbitrary and can be taken away on a sniff. Your example that, ‘bonuses may be modified due to organizational planning’ is basically if the company needs money or the boss’ pockets are low on cash then it will be your bonus that takes the hit.
What if organizational planning is interpreted as finding your replacement?
By all means! :bravo:
I’ve been thinking of starting one called Cautionary Tales for Incompetent Employers…
But I agree with the above sentiments, i.e. reducing the bonus is something employers can generally get away with (not the same thing as firing someone without a valid reason).
By all means! :bravo:
I’ve been thinking of starting one called Cautionary Tales for Incompetent Employers…
But I agree with the above sentiments, i.e. reducing the bonus is something employers can generally get away with (not the same thing as firing someone without a valid reason).[/quote]
It’s almost always discretionary.
Especially for the one (or few) foreigner employees.
I meself have been royally fucked twice in this regard, both times by companies that were trying to bully me into quitting.
By all means! :bravo:
I’ve been thinking of starting one called Cautionary Tales for Incompetent Employers…
But I agree with the above sentiments, i.e. reducing the bonus is something employers can generally get away with (not the same thing as firing someone without a valid reason).[/quote]
It can be the same thread. I just think you assume that there are any presumably intelligent employers that don’t try to screw their employees. They should get called on it and I want to thank you for helping people with this but I still don’t think you have worked in Taiwan in these situations. For anyone that doesn’t have their foot already out the door bringing up any of the labor violations is going to really strain the working relationship. It isn’t the way that it should be but it is the reality of working in Taiwan.
Foreigners often get screwed over with bonuses in the old sleight of hand trick, offer you a higher base salary than they really want to give and have no intention of ever giving you a decent bonus. Lots of foreigners don’t know 13 months is a standard deal here either not 12 months.