NSR 150's. ANy thoughts?

I’m toying with the idea of getting one. They just look so fun.

If you have any advice or comments, I’d be much appreciated.

[quote=“Beercan”]I’m toying with the idea of getting one. They just look so fun.

If you have any advice or comments, I’d be much appreciated.[/quote]

Are you talking about the honda NSR?

The litle thing that look like a full blood R-bike?

Finaly a real man and not a lady boy dreaming about a scooter. :raspberry:

I owned one.

Ups and downs…

Ups:

1-Fastest 150cc bike on the island

2-Excellent handling, lightweight

3-Replacement parts available island wide

4-A whole lot of fun

5-Wide range of modifications available

6-
Cheaper to fix engine troubles than the 4 strokes 150cc (FZR)

7-Very solid bike. It can take a beating day after day

Downs:

1-Rather expensive if in good condition

2-Finicky, and difficult to find mechanics who can really troubleshoot and tune this bike properly. ie: RC valves, carb jets, etc

3-Kick start only… NO STARTER(Biggest annoyance)

4-Not a great bike in traffic because it doesn’t perform well at low rev. This bike likes to run at high rev…

5-Noisy

6-Gas guzzler for such a small engine

7-Not the most comfortable ride(especially if your height exceeds 180cm), and absolutely harsh ride for a passenger

I owned one for 10 years and another (concurrently) for about 5. Agree with Bobepine on his points, and add a couple more.

Plus: Very sophisticated engine, and generally very good build quality.

Negative: The engine is downgraded from the ASEAN market product in several important ways, which puts a ceiling on the maximum power that can developed. Very few people know how to mod it effectively so most of them become very fussy and unreliable for just a small increase in power.
The frame is steel instead of aluminum in other markets. The rear suspension is not adjustable or rising rate as in other markets.

The earliest bikes had an engine shipped from Japan and are of much better quality. They have a small fairing, a flat dual seat and a skimpy front mudguard.
The mk2 version was 100% local build, has a huge fairing and a split rider / pillion seat. The engine spec is as per the original, but it has modifications to the RC valve computer that stretch maintanance intervals at the expense of low rpm torque.
The mk3 is as above but also has a EGR system which reduced performance somewhat.

The point is that when choosing between 10 and 16 year old bikes, you might be better off with the earlier one if performance is what you’re after.

Note however that body parts for the older bikes are very hard to come by and worth a premium if you can find them. Theft is an issue because of this.

If you want a zippy two-stroke street bike you may want to look at the RZX instead. It has 95% of the NSR’s performance, costs way less, and any idiot can work on it. With simple mods it can made to outrun the NSR and still be reliable.

Those things aren’t cheap – I think I once got quoted nearly 100k for a new Thai one here. They seem AWFUL tiny unless you’re some kind of midget.

I like the looks of that CBR 150 they have here. Anyone know anything about them? Apart from being underpowered, of course.

from what i remember, they’re a little overpriced too… but prices should drop a little, as there’s a new model coming out next year (that really does almost look like a bigger CBR, but skinnier)… i’ve only ever seen one on the road, so they’re not super common… and it sounded decent too…

from what i have heard, preformance is not too bad either…

but this is all 2nd hand information…

I wonder how it would compare to the Vulcan 1600 I was riding on last night. Sure would be a lot cheaper.

I appreciate the input, cheers.

You’re a wealth of knowledge when it comes to Taiwan vehicles.

I was looking to get one second hand. I also like the RZX idea too. I’ll keep my eyes peeled.

I’ve never really been into the strokers, so I thought I’d take a look.

I don’t have alot of experience with two strokes, can you mention any extra things I should look over other than the usual?

Given the skills of most mechanics here I’d try to find a low-mileage bike that has not had the bottom end rebuild. Look for wrench marks on the bolt heads that hold the crankcase halves together. There isn’t much compression, but the kickstart should provide some resistance and you should be able to feel each stroke through the lever. Any two-stroke is going to have a somewhat noisy engine when cold, and it’s going to make smoke too. Once warm however, most of the noise should go away, as should the smoke. Idle speed once warm should be around 1,000 to 1,200rpm and butter smooth. Not having valves, two-strokes rely on close piston clearances to keep the rings square in the bore to make cylinder pressure. Clattering or fluttering sounds from the cylinder / head area are a sign of wear here, and while the bike may run fast now, it will not run like that much longer. Two-strokes also need crankcase compression to pump fresh mixture into the cylinder, and they rely on oil seals on the crankshaft to do that. One of those seals is behind the alternator and is exposed to air. If that fails the bike will run weak, and not idle properly. The other seal is in the primary drive case and usually submerged in oil. When that one fails the engine will pull transmission oil in which burns smelly and white. If you run the engine with the transmission oil filler plug undone you’ll feel strong pressure pulses. Don’t do this in your favorite white shirt! Both of these engines have a sight glass for the transmission oil and if that seal is blown they will always be low on oil.
A third weak spot in high mileage bikes is the reed valve. It’s just a simple one-way valve with petals to allow mixture into the crankcase but not back out through the carb. The petals can take a set when older and not seat properly. If you can get a look at the air filter you’ll see it’s dirty on both sides.

While idling with bike in neutral, pulling the clutch in should not make a huge difference in the amount of engine noise. If it does, the clutch hub or primary drive is probably shot.
Once warmed up and with the choke off, throttle response should be instant with no bogging. In the first couple of gears the bike should pull hard from about 4,000rpm, almost as fast as you can twist the throttle open.
Be sure the clutch disengagement is smooth as the clutch drums get damaged easily from abuse (being wheelied a lot) and they are pretty much unobtainable these days. The transmission should shift easily and smoothly. Do not buy a bike that jumps out of gear or shows false neutrals.

Aside from this, the usual precautions apply. Check for oil leaks, crash damage, missing parts etc.

Oh one other thing. A mk1 NSR has a slightly different instrument cluster than later models. If a later cluster is fitted to a mk1 the low oil warning light will appear to function (light for 10 seconds when the ignition is switched on) but it will not light when the tank is empty. Always check the function of this system or you will seize the engine!

Redwagon, that’s really awesome.

I’m just trawling through the web now, it’s harder to find info on the Yamaha Rzr. One appealing thing about the NSR is the amount of info, and as far as I can see, parts.

From your experience, what is a reasonable price for an NSR/Rzr? (In reasonable condition).

Do you know of any extra info on the Yamaha?

Remember that most of the info out there on the NSR will be the 125 model, and then the 150 sold in SE Asia. Taiwan’s NSR has a lot in common with the early Thai models, but not the later stuff. The Kymco model got bigger and heavier bodywork, but not much underneath it changed. The Thai model developed just behind the Japan market 125s and got more powerful, then the six-spoke rims, then an alloy frame, bodywork like an NSR250…

The 150 engine / ECU is quite different from the Japan and European market 125s in important ways, it’s not just a difference in cylinder bore diameter.

The RZX was sold as the RXZ in SE Asia. Don’t ask me why. That might help you search up info.

What do you think you would be wanted to mod on either bike anyway?

As to pricing, I can’t help you much. I haven’t looked at either for several years now. You used to be able to get a good NSR for 30 or 35k, and an RZX or RZR for 17 to 25k. That might have gone up due to dwindling supply, or down due to age.

Your height may be a factor in choosing one over the other. The NSR is faster stock, and it has better midrange torque for pulling weight. It is very cramped though, so if you’re a bigger rider it will uncomfortable. The RZX feels like it has more room.
The NSR is quite a bit heavier than the RZX, and has a longer wheelbase, so it feels more stable on crappy surfaces. The RZX feels like an oldskool Yamaha RD250/350/400 in that it’s light for it’s size, has more flex in the frame / forks and therefore a bit flighty when you’re getting on it over bumpier roads. OTOH, the RZX will feel quicker at any given speed and it’s much easier to get it on the back wheel, so for pure fun and hooligan factor I give it the nod over the NSR. It’s much easier and less tiring to go fast on the NSR, but it always feels like it could use another 5 or 10hp. The RZX feels pretty quick stock, the NSR cries out for mods. The RZX can easily be modded for another 10hp but the NSR cannot.

Cheers for your advice.

As to mods, definitely an exhaust, possibly some other things like suspension.

It seems six of one, half a dozen of the other.
I’m just shy of 180cm, so that is something to consider.

The ealier, import Japan NSR models, do they still have the Kymko decals, but the older body work?

At 180cm you really want to have a ride on an NSR before committing to that route.

Suspension mods are difficult on the NSR as replacement rear shocks are hard to come by. I put a complete FZR rising rate setup on my primary bike, but it was a major PITA. Good rear shocks for the RZR are also hard to find. I did once build an RZX with an FZ front end and FZR rear end. A nice ride, but what a nightmare of fabrication.

Mk1 NSR has Honda on the gas tank and on the engine. Mk2 has Honda on the tank and KYMCO on the engine. Mk3 has KYMCO in both spots. Only the engine with Honda on it was made by Honda. :wink:

Hmm

Do you mean “No rear shocks are reliably/readily available” or “no better-than-stock rear shocks are reliably/readily available”

Since the context was upgrades I’m hoping the latter. Also, how about about front fork seal availability?

A more general question on working without a manual. Is there a rule of thumb for estimating the torque to apply to a nut/bolt when tightening it, from the break-out torque required to undo it? i.e. / e.g. is “the same” good enough, 10% less, etc ?. Of course you’d have to assume it was correct to start with.

Ed: I have seen some aftermarket shocks for the RZR. Whether or not they any better than stock is another question. The SR150 shocks do fit so there is at least something available.

The RZX/RZR can use a readily available industrial oil seal to replace the stock ones. IIRC, Yamaha don’t sell them, but they are easy enough to track down from industrial supplers.

Normal wrenches are the length they are for a reason. The smaller ones are shorter to limit the amount of torque you can easily put on them by hand. Most fasteners just need this hand-tool sort of torque on them. Where you need to apply more is wheel spindles, swing arm spindles, caliper mounting bolts, that kind of thing. Think about what you’re tightening into. Aluminum is much easier to strip threads in than steel.

Thanks. Good to know, though I have some skepticism about “easy enough to track down from industrial suppliers”, since the vocabulary is likely to be a technical challenge to my female-teacher Chinese language advisors. Is there any application-independent code system as for bearings?

My old bike (now llary’s steed) is set up this way…And they are fine for the job.

I agree exactly with what Redwagon has written here regarding the RZ vs: NSR debate. There is no debate if you are over 170cm or weigh more than 60kgs. The RZ is much roomier, has a much larger frame, is more reliable and will be cheaper.

Edithglow, I would suggest you change out the rear shocks on that RZR straightaway though. The SR-150 shocks actually look and perform quite well on the bike as you can see here:

[quote=“Ducked”]Thanks. Good to know, though I have some skepticism about “easy enough to track down from industrial suppliers”, since the vocabulary is likely to be a technical challenge to my female-teacher Chinese language advisors. Is there any application-independent code system as for bearings?[/quote]The seals are marked with the dimensions in the following format ‘seal type’, ‘shaft diameter’, ‘outer diameter’, ‘height’.
The RZ* fork seal will be marked something like ‘SC - 30 - 42 - 6’. I’m sure about three thing regarding this seal. One, it’s a plain-jane NBR seal (nitrile butadine rubber), it’s a singl-lip seal, and it’s shaft diameter is 30mm. Pull off the dust boot and wipe the gunk off the top of the seal and you should be able to read the markings. If you can upgrade to an HNBR, Viton or Teflon seal, all the better. I have used double-lip seals without any problems.
HTH

Thanks, thats very helpful, though I’m pushed for time at the moment so it’ll be a while before I can use it.

Edith Glow? You must be confusing me with some scootababe.

My old bike (now llary’s steed) is set up this way…And they are fine for the job.

I agree exactly with what Redwagon has written here regarding the RZ vs: NSR debate. There is no debate if you are over 170cm or weigh more than 60kgs. The RZ is much roomier, has a much larger frame, is more reliable and will be cheaper.

Edithglow, I would suggest you change out the rear shocks on that RZR straightaway though. The SR-150 shocks actually look and perform quite well on the bike as you can see here:

[/quote]

The only major gripes with the RZ seem to be with the frame and suspension. I was lucky that my machine as supplied by MJB, Inc. had been looked after very well and had the important stuff fixed.

What I love about the RZX more than anything is that I know next to bugger all about mechanics and even I find it simple enough to work on. It’s a very pleasing bike to own if you’re willing to put the effort in and I’m impressed that this dirty old 2-stroke beast has never once failed me where other vehicles frequently let me down. I ride the arse off it knowing that if I bugger something up even the most braindead Taiwanese mechanic could at least do a half-decent job of fixing it. I’ve since given MJBs ex-bike a new paint job, digital instruments (mainly because a damaged thread kept popping cables out on the old one), transceiver/aerial rig, Bridgestone tyres and sport exhaust. Stripping it for a thorough clean and replacing some worn parts helps a lot too, but this is all mostly superficial stuff… the engine is perfect just as it is although the new exhaust makes a substantial difference to how the power is distributed. Like any sporty 2-stroke it’s not a whole lot of fun riding in low-speed, busy traffic but once I get up to 8,500rpm that thing tries to pull wheelies on me all the way through 3rd gear. When I get time I’d like to try and replace the rear wheel with something fatter especially since I’ve heard from a few people who claim to have done this with excellent results.

Yes, information is hard to come by for the RZX but India has a boatload of these beasts so parts and data are available with some effort. I’ve already amassed a ton of information about this machine and I’m sure MJB and Redwagon have about ten times more than me. I’m certainly always willing to help out a fellow RZ owner now that I’m a confirmed addict :laughing:

Given that the going rate for RZs in Taiwan seems to be anything from NT$10k-30k+ depending on condition (I got a good condition bike for NT$10k… cheers MJB :slight_smile: ) Mine eventually came to about ~NT$25k (including the bike!) and a few weeks work on and off. I can’t think of a better 2nd hand bike for under 80 grand or so and I’m on the lookout for another one plus a third for spare parts. To give an idea of how much fun this thing is, I was going to buy a yellow plate sportsbike until I rode the RZX. It’s so fast and light in the mountains that I’m going to keep it for playtime and maybe look at a more comfortable big bike for touring.