Oil sands: the "most destructive project on Earth" - UGH

From a UK newspaper:
uk.reuters.com/article/environme … 215?rpc=64

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada’s massive oil sands are “the most destructive project on earth” and the federal government must intervene to clean up the mess, a leading green group said on Friday.

Environmental Defence said excavation of the oil sands in the western province of Alberta – home to the richest petroleum deposits outside the Middle East – is producing vast amounts of greenhouse gases and poisoning local water supplies.

“This is Canada’s problem – our federal elected leaders need to clean it up or shut it down,” said Aaron Freeman of Environmental Defence.

What’s going on with this? Does anybody know? I thought Canada had a “green party” or something that should stop projects like this before they get started.

Just…HOLY SHIT! This has been going on under our noses??? :astonished:
desmogblog.com/report-albert … t-on-earth

Report: Alberta Oil Sands Most Destructive Project on Earth
18 Feb 08

Environmental Defence has released a report calling the Alberta Oil Sands the most destructive project on Earth.

Few Canadians know that Canada is home to one of the world’s largest dams and it is built to hold toxic waste from just one Tar Sands operation," Rick Smith, the executive director of Environmental Defence.

And according to the report this is just the beginning. Approvals have already been given that will double the size of existing operations and Canada’s leaders have been talking with the US government to grow oil sands operations in a “short time span.”

Even a former Premier of Alberta is concerned. Peter Lougheed who served as Premier from 1971 to 1985 was recently quoted on the oil sands as saying:

… it is just a moonscape. It is wrong in my judgment, a major wrong… So it is a major, major federal and provincial issue."

However, there is a silver lining in all this. A recent Canadian parliamentary committee recently stated that:

A business as usual approach to the development of the oil sands is not sustainable. The time has come to begin the transition to a clean energy future."

Here’s a few facts about the Alberta Oil Sands:

* Oil sands mining is licensed to use twice the amount of fresh water that the entire city of Calgary uses in a year.

   
* At least 90% of the fresh water used in the oil sands ends up in ends up in tailing ponds so toxic that propane cannons are used to keep ducks from landing in them.

   
* Processing the oil sands uses enough natural gas in a day to heat 3 million homes in Canada.

   
* The toxic tailing ponds are considered one of the largest human-made structures in the world. The ponds span 50 square kilometers and can be seen from space.

   
* Producing a barrel of oil from the oil sands produces three times more greenhouse gas emissions than a barrel of conventional oil.

   
* The oil sands operations are the fastest growing source of heat-trapping greenhouse gas in Canada. By 2020 the oil sands will release twice the amount produced currently by all the cars and trucks in Canada.

A full copy of the Environmental Defence report is attached to the end of this post (click the link for more details)

what…the…hell? :fume:

1 Like

Definitely time for a change. Why should America get all the hate? Time to start hating Canada too, methinks – they’re practically the same in any case.

There are more oils sands in Alberta than there are oil reserves in Saudi Arabia. These environmentalists can whine all they like, but these “black tar” sands are going to be paying for Canada’s generous social safety net in the coming years when the population ages. Despite being Canada’s most conservative province, Alberta has the largest government per capita in all of Canada and has been pretty progressive on environmental matters.

Tar Sands
sierraclub.ca/prairie/tarnation.htm
The tar sands of Alberta pose one of the largest ecological challenges in North America’s history. Rapid and unconstrained growth of tar sands oil production will leave result in:

· Increased green house gas emissions. In 2000, the tar sands industry released 23.3 MT of GHG emissions (3 per cent of Canada’s total). By 2015, tar sands GHG emissions are expected to rise to between 57 and 97 MT–which would make it the single largest contributor to GHG emissions growth in Canada. This would also virtually guarantee that Canada would fail to achieve its Kyoto Protocol targets.

· Unsustainable water allocations - for every barrel of mined bitumen requires 4 to 5 barrels of water

· Irreversible damage to Boreal Forest ecosystems and the corresponding loss of one of the last wild places on Earth.

Anything for comfort, I guess. Like mark Twain used to say, “a man gets his opinions where he gets his corn-pone”

But didn’t China buy the oil sands reserves?

HG

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]But didn’t China buy the oil sands reserves?

HG[/quote]

Chinese holdings in Alberta are still rather small. I don’t think they’ll ever own a large share in them. And Alberta is the most pro-American province of any–by a long shot.

stockhouse.com/blogs.asp?pag … stID=51906

Maybe so, but . . .

I’m sure the Chinese will be equally mindful of the threat to the environment as say, EXXON . . oh wait! :laughing:

HG

When the oil is removed where do they put the sand?

Back on the ground.

Oh, oh. In Central America they are very happy because China wants to exploit this kind of oil deposits in their coasts… Guess they haven’t read the small print.

Not trying to be an apologist or anything, but could we clarify what these claims mean? There is a lot of imprecise alarmist language being used that prevents anyone from forming an accurate picture of how big the mess actually is.

So, in one year, the oil sands operation uses twice as much water as the city of Calgary does in the same period? Or the total amount licensed over however many years is equivalent to one year’s consumption by a fairly small city? Or what? Why do we need to mention the amount per year? Why not just say ‘during the same period of time’, or ‘per day’? That would be far more clear and would avoid scaremongering by purposely introducing large numbers.

And why is this important? Wikipedia has it that 15% of all water usage worldwide is for industrial purposes. Water is used by most oil recovery/refining processes. Is this industry more or less demanding than others producing the same amount of usable oil? Is there anything especially bad about this site or is the issue simply that it happens to be in the author’s back yard?

Calgary has a population of a little over 1,000,000 - about 3% of Canada’s population. How much oil does the city use? Oil companies don’t dig the stuff up for fun, you know. They respond to demand from consumers. Why don’t the people of Calgary abandon their big cars and live in igloos if they don’t like people extracting oil to power their destructive lifestyles?

Enough to heat 3 million homes for the same day? Or enough to heat them for the afore-mentioned year? Is this figure for summer or winter? Why not average it out for a whole year. as we’re talking years-worths of water use? Again, why is the time period important if there is equivalency? There’s an implication here that extracting oil uses a lot of gas in comparison to our thrifty habits when it comes to home heating. How much gas is consumed daily by three million homes in Canada? How much per home? How much oil is burned by the average Canadian per day? And where does that oil come from?

Considered by whom? What list are they quoting from? And “one of” doesn’t really mean anything. Of the ten largest bodies of water created by means of a dam, the biggest is Lake Volta at 8,502 square km and the smallest is Lake Guri, 4250 square kilometres. At 170 to 85 times the size of your ponds they are a hell of a lot bigger and I wonder how long the list would have to be before it included something of only fifty square kilometres. Taipei City, itself a human-made structure visible from space, is 271 square kilometres. Your list would have to be huge.

And ‘can be seen from space’? WTF? Haven’t you heard of Google Earth? Individual people are visible from space, and the phrase is only meaningful when linked to ‘with the naked eye’. Is a comparatively small body of water visible from 300km away? Has any astronaut ever said “Wow! I can see the toxic ponds from up here”? If not then your claim is simple propaganda.

Are you talking about producing raw crude oil? I assume so. So what greenhouse gases are produced in drilling a hole underground? It wouldn’t be hard to prove that the Alberta fields require the burning of more fuel than a good old-fashioned ‘conventional’ well that relies on pressure from below. How would they compare to the oilfields that rely on pressure from above which is produced by burning oil or gas? Can we see some figures for different types of method?

And how do these emissions stack up against the greenhouse gases produced during transportation, refining, and combustion by the good people of Canada in their SUVs? Are the emissions produced during extraction meaningful compared to what happens later? It is possible, for instance, that the oil produced requires less refining, or doesn’t have to be transported as far as say Saudi oil, thus resulting in a net decrease in emissions. If this isn’t the case, then why are we relying on unspecific statements about just one step in the process? Why not provide a clear unambiguous statement about what goes on?

Fastest-growing? You mean like babies grow faster than adults? Is this claim an absolute number or simply a percentage? Twenty percent a year of almost nothing is still not a lot. Ten billion tons more is a lot. How big a source is it now, compared to the City of Calgary or those three million homes? If we’re going to compare water and gas usage on a like-for-like basis then we should compare emissions and growth rates too.

By ‘source’ do you mean the emissions produced by the extraction process? Or do you include all the greenhouse gases produced by all those people burning the oil after it has been extracted? If they didn’t get that oil from Alberta then where would it come from? Would Canada’s greenhouse gas emissions become magically lower by some massive amount if the oil were to be transported from Iraq or Alaska?

But… you said that the extraction required the burning of an awful lot of natural gas: equivalent to 3,000,000 homes.

Burning natural gas produces less CO2 than would be required to generate the same amount of heat than you would get from burning oil. My home in the UK used oil-fired heating, and used a lot less of the stuff than I used in my car over the same period. It seems to me that enough gas to heat 3,000,000 homes is going to produce an awful lot less CO2 than enough oil to power all the trucks and cars on the road.

Canada’s oil consumption in 2006 is listedat 2,218,000 barrels/day. The output of Athabasca is listed as 1,126,000 barrels/per day for the same year, and forecast to rise to 3,000,000 barrels/day by 2020.

Even if you multiply your natural gas usage by three by three, you’re still not going to get twice the emissions currently produced by Canadian motorists.

I can see that if you burnt all the oil produced you would get more greenhouse gases than is produced by all the cars and trucks in Canada. But as the people actually doing the burning are going to be doing it in the engines of their cars and trucks it’s hard to see that the simple act of producing oil in Canada instead of elsewhere will result in greater emissions. The cars and trucks will still burn oil.

These ‘facts’ don’t stand up. I get really pissed off with well-meaning alarmists producing arguments that undermine their own credibility. Oil dependency and the accompanying environmental destruction are real problems, but a lot of people still refuse to acknowledge them. Arguing emotively and inaccurately only makes it harder to convince them of the truth, because the truth is hidden. A little more realism on all sides would help a lot.

Loretta, I don’t know. The news story seems to have broke recently. It’s in a hell of a not of news outlets, not just alarmist ones.
I posted the links and the stuff that blew my mind. But I’m not annointing myself the Canadian oil sands expert or anything. Just waiting for people to come along with more info. it’s an interesting story, no?

Did you know that the US Govt is surpressing technology that would put an end to the use of fossil fuel in less than a generation?

Did you know that most govts are well aware of the now irrreversible environmental damage being caused.

That being said,and if you do believe this to be true, then one has to ask the question as to why this is so. If anyone cares to step out of that box,the answer awaits.

Turning the argument to “well America does XYZ so THERE” is really a lame way to get out of a discussion. How do you actually feel about the Canadian oilsands? I think your opinion on the matter would be really interesting. What is it?

Loretta before badmouthing the alarmists you might have done even the minimal research on how oil is gotten from tar sands. It isn’t an easy process. It doesn’t get pumped out. It more of a manufacturing process in which, yes, huge amounts of energy that must come from somewhere else, are needed.

Because this process is very expensive, with estimates of around $20-40 to produce a barrel of oil it has not traditionally been seen as economically viable. It is now because oil is sold for almost a $100 a barrel and will likely go higher in the future.

Wikipedia is your friend:

So yes, if we imported oil from somewhere else we would not be burning our our natural gas in addition to the oil we have imported. It is easy to conclude then that we would not produce as much CO2.

Think of as burning 25% of your oil to make a oil. Big gain in energy yes, but also a much greater amount of co2 is produced.

MM, thanks. Good response explaining the process a little more. Wikipedia also mentioned newer techniques which recover more usable oil from the same source sand, but I didn’t see anything about whether it used more energy or not. Probably does.

It seems likely that most people would conclude that this project is a bad thing after doing some basic research. So why is there no responsible reporting which saves people the problem of having to go and do basic research? Why can’t people who want to raise awareness just tell the truth instead of clothing it in hyperbole?

I have no problem badmouthing alarmists. Anybody who can’t put together a coherent argument should not be shouting from the rooftops, unless it’s simply to ask for more information. At the moment I’m only seeing emotive language and wild claims, instead of factual reporting.

And trebuchet, I didn’t mean my comments personally. But repeating propaganda without even stopping to consider it is not a recipe for good outcomes.

Example: When I lived in the UK I once gave my MP a hard time because I learned that his office didn’t use recycled paper - at a time when the city council had just initiated home collections of recyclables including paper. He replied that it was bad for the environment and that after considering the issue carefully he had decided to use paper from managed forests.

I was quite annoyed and called Friends of the Earth to try and get them on my side, and they responded by sending me their current position paper: it compared energy consumption, use of chemicals, rural employment issues and so on, and concluded that at that time, for general office use, recycled paper was more damaging to the environment than paper from tree farms.

I was wrong, he was right. Sitting down and considering the facts changed my opinion. After that I started to become aware that campaign groups often distort the facts to promote their own agenda, and sometimes actually encourage policies that do more harm than good even though they appear to be on the side of the righteous.

You can never really know for sure what’s right, and who is telling you the truth. But the first step is to stop and think whenever anyone tells you anything new, and if it’s a campaign group then you have to look at the language they use.

And for heaven’s sake, Canadians, how the hell can you be so astonished that this is going on? I first heard of the Athabasca tar sands when I read this book in the early 1980’s even though I lived thousands of light years away. It’s in your bloody back yard. Don’t tell me you’ve only just noticed it?

I too am surprised that any Canadian would be surprised by this or not have a basic understanding of how the oil is produced. I agree the article leaves out a lot. Sloppy reporting. Probably got its info from Canadian papers which wouldn’t bother going over all the details as most of us (should) know how the oil is produced and that it does take a lot of energy.

Anyway, no doubt much environmental reporting shoots itself in the foot and fails to rouse anything but impotent howling.

Perhaps we should compare a Canadian report on this with the reuters.

My point is very simple. There is no need for fossil fuels when there are abundant sources of alternatives.
https://www.zpenergy.com

The govts of this planet choose to use fossil fuels for economic reasons,obviously.This in turn manifests greed beyond comprehension. But that is only scratching the surface.

Now time for you to do your homework my friend. Who is really in control of oil and where do the profits go? Let me give you somewhere to start.
John Davison Rockefeller, Sr.

Alarmist? Hell yes,and for good reason. Common people,open your eyes!

Yes, it’s a messy process that isn’t great for the environment. But what is the alternative? Alberta’s conventional gas reserves will run dry in the future. As long as gas prices remain high and the tar sands remain a viable project (when they started the tar sands project in 1985 [when gas was really cheap] many people thought the companies were crazy), I think they should continue with it. I mean, its easy for these people to criticize the project but what about coming up with viable solutions? To quote Sam Rayburn, “any jackass can tear down an outhouse, it takes a carpenter to build one.”

You’ve got the Council for Canadians (headed by radicals such as Maude Barlow) and the enviromentalists on one side and the industry people on the other. Personally, I’d like to see more efforts put into environmental solutions but not at the expense of ruining the industry or the strong economic growth in the Fort McMurray area. Albertans remember the National Energy Program and would take a very dim view of any sort of federal interference. Again, I’m hoping the provincial goverment pushes the companies to do more. Like I mentioned in a previous post, Alberta has the highest number of government workers per capita in all of Canada. Let the politicians/civil service solve the problem. Nobody likes to shit/make a mess in their own backyard, and I trust the wisdom of Albertans in solving this problem.

A lot of companies in the area are doing some good. Syncrude, for example, has spent $15 million on restoration of former mining land, and a 10-year-old reclamation project at a former mining site shows the beginnings of a viable ecosystem, with tree saplings, sedges, and wildflowers growing, but it will take years to know if it will truly be sustainable.