From the Chicago wires…A group of well-to-do parents are protesting their children’s school moving to a near by, nearly demolished housing projects. Of course this housing project was notorious in the 80s and 90s for gang violence and drug activity. But our fine, illustrious mayor Daley
swooped in and put a stop to that, by destroying them and scattering the residents thru out the city. But I digress.
So, as CPS struggles to find funds to maintain it’s regular schools and dismantle targeted ones in low income communities for Daley’s school reform, here comes along a school getting $60m in rehab funding and the parents are ticked off because for a short period of time their “progeny” will have to see something else besides Prada, LV, and Gucci on the way to school.
[quote]“I am not sending my child there,” said Michelle Herman, mother of two Ogden students, one of whom would be affected by the move. "That is directly across the street from the projects…“The reason I pay so much money to live in this area is because [Ogden] is the school my kids go to,” she added.
Although Ogden students would be dealing more with Cabrini’s notorious reputation than the present reality of a rapidly gentrifying area, parents have not been shy about voicing their anger. Some say they’ve sent letters and placed calls to new schools CEO Ron Huberman, while others are trying to use “connections” to see if something can be done about the move.[/quote]
I think this story really raises how America is moving from major race issues toward class, as it’s next frontier to battle.
I don’t see it as a class fight, but as a “don’t put my kids temporary school near some drug infested half way demo’d projects” fight. I don’t know what they are spending so much money on but if it were me, I’d be fighting this all the way to city hall and reminding the mayor that things get sidetracked real nicely when you fuck with people who have cash, smarts, and the time and reason to make your life hell. Dollars to donuts that this all gets sorted out real quick like to the parents’ satisfaction.
The worst part of the article is no one knows what is being decided, when it is being decided nor what all the options are. Can you imagine running a business that way?
I think you protest too much and I have a hunch that if it were your child’s school, you’d have a very very different take on it.
[quote]
I don’t see it as a class fight, but as a “don’t put my kids temporary school near some drug infested half way demo’d projects” fight. I don’t know what they are spending so much money on but if it were me, I’d be fighting this all the way to city hall and reminding the mayor that things get sidetracked real nicely when you fuck with people who have cash, smarts, and the time and reason to make your life hell. Dollars to donuts that this all gets sorted out real quick like to the parents’ satisfaction. [/quote] It is a very much a class issue. Re-read your response. You post about “reminding” the mayor about fucking with people “who have cash, smarts and the time” to make your life hell. The way I read that is that you’re saying is that only the rich have the power to make that impact. When actually, people who are unemployed and living off of social welfare can do that. Minus the cash. It’s only when you enter $$$ into the picture, you see the conversation shift and how swift the problem will be resolved.
[quote]The worst part of the article is no one knows what is being decided, when it is being decided nor what all the options are. Can you imagine running a business that way? [/quote] Welcome to CPS. Oh it’s been decided, they just won’t say until this Wednesday. But trust me, CPS knows exactly where those kids are going for the time being. I wish I could be there as it’s gonna be so funny to see how these parents have their tantrums but may not get anywhere. It won’t be the first time parents with substantial influence get screwed by CPS/Daley’s decision. And actually I hope they do, not because I want their kids to be affected, but for a movement to begin to remove Daley from office, even though they are in the minority.
Nope, I’m black and raised in Chicago. So I “know” about this area. I would have some concern about my children having walk thru the area, but that wouldn’t happen. 1)I would take them to school 2)That area is so heavily patrolled it’s not funny 3)I would want them to see that life isn’t all about glass towers and Gucci sales. Those kids wouldn’t meet with any problems because “the message” would be sent that they aren’t to be messed with.
Now, isn’t that a sad message to send? That kids from a higher class income have more value than those from the projects?
No, it’s just one set of parents that give a damn and one that is not so involved in the education of their children. All it would take is for black folks to vote 50% republican on the singular issue of school choice/charters once and it’s over. I’m not holding my breath for that though.
Simple message for the Republicans too. Vote for us and we will give you a choice in your child’s education. The Democrats would be besides themselves on what to do, because either way they’re screwed. The monolithic black vote (voting 89-96% democrat) versus the teachers’ unions (One of their best sources of funding and volunteers).
Nope poor people could do the same thing, they just choose not to. As your socio-economic status rises you care more for politics and your child’s education because you have more skin in the game to lose. Last I checked, people living in the projects normally have lots of time and can easily make the powers-that-be lives a living hell. They’re not stupid people either, they just don’t see the point, which is what those community organizers are suppose to be for.
Honestly, I can’t imagine why the Republicans are not beating this issue like a drum. You just have so much low hanging fruit on this tree of an issue that it’s silly not to take a bite. I’m all about freedom of choice and markets, as long as you aren’t killing anybody nor appropriating their goods and services by force.
I’m with Nama on this. You both have good points, but I’ve just finished an Ed degree and, having done some research realated to this kind of thing, I think Nama’s more correct.
A lot of poor parents don’t “choose” anything. They’re either working their arses off, or they’re drunk, or on drugs, and even if none of that is true, they’re usually not well educated. Many of them are simply not aware of their rights, or what the channels are for exercising them. Those are facts. The wealthy people with their “connections” really live almost on another planet.
Some research I looked at was about how bussing poor kids to rich school improved their scores dramatically. All kids moved to wealthy schools in afluent neighborhoods imporved compared to their results in their own neighborhoods. The only kids who’s scores did not improve were wealthy white kids. Their scores stayed the same. What happened? They were the kids who already went to these wealthy schools in afluent neighborhoods. They were the only ones who were not required to change schools.
And why were all these other kids being bussed in? Was it because so many of them were failing in their poor home districts? Nope. Schools were ordered to end segregation and the wealthy white parents refused to allow their kids to be sent to the impovrished schools. So rezoning was hastilly worked out so that some kids were bussed almost three hours to their new schools and the white kids didn’t have to go anywhere.
When enough of the poor parents complained about these long bus rides, they came up with a new solution. Give the parents the choice of whether nor not to allow their children to go to segregated schools. Yep. re-segregation resulted because the parents who didn’t want thier kids bussed three hours away had no other choice. All that was in Oregon and several years ago, BTW.
Here’s the way I see it, You can run all that anecdotal BS you want, but at the end of the day, YOU and not the govt are responsible for the education of your child. If you choose to make bad decisions about that, then you are at fault.
Poor people fail because the number one socio-economic indicator and best determining factor for how well you or your child does is marriage. With a 70% illegitimacy rate, black people are going to go nowhere as a group though individual members will shine. To paraphrase as Huey Freemen so eloquently put it, “Black people will succeed when they are booed in math class and not just on the stage.”
The single most important determiner to where I move is going to be my daughter’s school. I also qualify as poor and uneducated by the general rules of this forum. I value certain things and will work to get them implemented. In this day and age of free information thanks to the internet, there is no reason for people to not do otherwise.
To drop this down to the base reason of class, means we need to take care of our poor ignorant brothers and sisters like some dumb farm animal for their own good without regard to what they really want. I think this shows a good example of that type of thinking: mises.org/books/TRTS/
Most people care about their kids more than anything. People with money and influence will naturally fight to see their kids in the best school in the best neighborhood possible. People without money and influence are naturally disadvantaged in such a fight. That may be a class issue, but on its own I can’t see it as symptomatic of anything except for a general concern for one’s children’s education and welfare. Nothing new or shocking in the US, or anywhere else I imagine.
WTF!!! That’s hugely racist. AND I’M a single parent. My son wasn’t “illegitimate” when he was born, but his life is, and will be much better with his single mom than it was/would be with his parents still married. That’s not something I’m bragging about, but it’s true for many, many children. I’m saying that this part of your argument is unfair and doesn’t jibe with your point after you called my argument above BS–that the actions of concerend and involved parents is most important.
Housecat, please don’t pull the Alinsky tactic of personalizing the attacks. Play martyr on someone else’s time and not mine, as I have no patience for it.
Citing you Oregon anecdote, lets raise a few questions:
Link?
Why did those kids have to be bussed rather than their parents demanding a better school system closer to home?
When offered a choice of a better school at a distance or one closer that was not as good, the parents voted to put their kids in a worse school closer to home. What does that have to do with class or race?
Do you think that demanding parents and not wealth played a larger role in how the school in the affluent neighborhood was able to do better.
Considering that it takes about 1 year for a child to acclimate to a charter school with standards, how long were the bussed kids there and what was the time frame for their improvements on tests and which tests were those?
Anecdotes work on some people, but I’m not usually one of them. The plain fact is that you can get an anecdote for anything you wish, just by tailoring the story and omitting facts and degrees of consequence.
You can argue all day about your situation, that’s an argument I will not partake in. The simple fact is that the biggest determining factor for a child’s success in life and at school is married parents. It doesn’t mean all kids benefit nor that all kids with single parents can’t get their children to succeed. It’s just the largest determining factor in the odds. Control for illegitimacy and black and white crime rates are the same.
As far as the politics, joining a party precinct is probably the best bet for parents as you can sway the agenda with 10+ parents. You also get to elect the people within the party that choose other members of the party, hence your voice is heard. This is Daley’s problem now and would easily be the best course of action for the concerned parents along with protests and editorials. As far as other failing schools and school district problems, that is neither their concern nor problem the parents involved should take care of their own business.
It is NOT racist, it is the truth.
And school vouchers is one area where black families have consistently been lied to by the Demo party. It is allowing their choice in upgrading the education and future of their children, and the Demo party has consistently forced them to stay ‘down on the plantation’ by denying them vouchers to allow their children to succeed in life.
If one wants to view a racist post, I would refer them to this one…
[quote]A lot of poor parents don’t “choose” anything. They’re either working their arses off,
or they’re drunk, or on drugs, and even if none of that is true, they’re usually not well educated. Many of them are simply not aware of their rights, or what the channels are for exercising them.
Those are facts. The wealthy people with their “connections” really live almost on another planet.[/quote]
The more i read this one…it kinda makes me wanna puke.
This is racist…and classist…and…well…just sick coming from someone who claims to be “educated” in education.
No, it’s just one set of parents that give a damn and one that is not so involved in the education of their children. All it would take is for black folks to vote 50% republican on the singular issue of school choice/charters once and it’s over. I’m not holding my breath for that though.
Simple message for the Republicans too. Vote for us and we will give you a choice in your child’s education. The Democrats would be besides themselves on what to do, because either way they’re screwed. The monolithic black vote (voting 89-96% democrat) versus the teachers’ unions (One of their best sources of funding and volunteers). [/quote] You are so misinformed on this one. Especially when it comes to Chicago. low income parents, black, latino, white, are very very vocal about their children’s education. Remember it was the GOP that set up NCLB which is really a whole 'nuther conversation, but is really screwing these kids out of a proper education. I’ve covered more CPS board meetings and did my thesis on this whole thing. Low income blacks in Chicago are very present at these meetings and are going thru all the proper channels to make a difference. The problem is class and clout and $$$.
[quote]Nope poor people could do the same thing, they just choose not to. As your socio-economic status rises you care more for politics and your child’s education because you have more skin in the game to lose. Last I checked, people living in the projects normally have lots of time and can easily make the powers-that-be lives a living hell. They’re not stupid people either, they just don’t see the point, which is what those community organizers are suppose to be for. [/quote]How arrogant a statement. They just choose not to. You’ve been living in LALA land too long and listening to the conservatives whine from their gated communities about the little people they even refuse to talk to. Let me break it down to you. In Chicago, clout counts for everything. And clout usually comes with class. So if you’re on the low end of the totem pole, you have little clout and obviously aren’t in the upper echelons of class. So how can “one choose” not to do something. From 2004, low income parents, non-profits and other educational organizations have been fighting Daley on this education thing. The reason they aren’t getting much done is the fact they are LOW INCOME and Daley has such a blatant disdain for minorities and low income. Not to mention he’s just stupid to begin with.
[quote]Honestly, I can’t imagine why the Republicans are not beating this issue like a drum. You just have so much low hanging fruit on this tree of an issue that it’s silly not to take a bite. I’m all about freedom of choice and markets, as long as you aren’t killing anybody nor appropriating their goods and services by force.[/quote] We’re not a GOP city. All major players are Dems.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]It is NOT racist, it is the truth.
And school vouchers is one area where black families have consistently been lied to by the Demo party. It is allowing their choice in upgrading the education and future of their children, and the Demo party has consistently forced them to stay ‘down on the plantation’ by denying them vouchers to allow their children to succeed in life.
If one wants to view a racist post, I would refer them to this one…
[quote]A lot of poor parents don’t “choose” anything. They’re either working their arses off,
or they’re drunk, or on drugs, and even if none of that is true, they’re usually not well educated. Many of them are simply not aware of their rights, or what the channels are for exercising them.
Those are facts. The wealthy people with their “connections” really live almost on another planet.[/quote]
The more I read this one…it kinda makes me wanna puke.
This is racist…and classist…and…well…just sick coming from someone who claims to be “educated” in education.[/quote]
The point of my OP was to point out a growing trend of class as the next major issue. So, can we pull the reigns in on ourselves and stop throwing the “race card” around. At least for a couple of pages.
Edit–One thing that’s being glossed over, is this is a public school. For elementary schools,in Chicago, you need to live within the school-area boundaries.So some kids from Cabrini must live within or close to the boundries, but I’m not sure. Two, why is this school getting $60m in renovations when there are other schools that are in far worse conditions and lack less getting the same attention and funding? I’ll tell you why, these parents represent Daley’s core election funding, while low income represent his core voting base. Besides, this group also has the type of people Daley want’s in the city–mid/upper class technology/business workers who will generate taxes and income and support for crazy projects like the Olympics.
I love the irony in your posts Nama, but as a proud dedicated member of the VRWC. I will be arguing with you on the facts on the ground. I also appreciate you burying the race card.
[quote]You are so misinformed on this one. Especially when it comes to Chicago. low income parents, black, latino, white, are very very vocal about their children’s education. Remember it was the GOP that set up NCLB which is really a whole 'nuther conversation, but is really screwing these kids out of a proper education. I’ve covered more CPS board meetings and did my thesis on this whole thing. Low income blacks in Chicago are very present at these meetings and are going thru all the proper channels to make a difference. The problem is class and clout and $$$.[/quote]How has that voting thing worked out for them? oh wait, you tell us.
Which leads to you explaining this:
Just to reiterate, the poor people are voting for the Dem who is shafting their schools but finds time and cash to renovate the rich people’s school for $60M, because they pay him cash. The underground parking lot is quite an effective educational expenditure btw. How has that 89%+ of black people voting for Democrats helped them again?
And just because I like quoting myself:
[quote]Simple message for the Republicans too. Vote for us and we will give you a choice in your child’s education. The Democrats would be besides themselves on what to do, because either way they’re screwed. The monolithic black vote (voting 89-96% democrat) versus the teachers’ unions (One of their best sources of funding and volunteers).
Honestly, I can’t imagine why the Republicans are not beating this issue like a drum. You just have so much low hanging fruit on this tree of an issue that it’s silly not to take a bite. I’m all about freedom of choice and markets, as long as you aren’t killing anybody nor appropriating their goods and services by force.[/quote]
You have bad schools because they vote Democrat in your city. Look at any large democrat held city and ask yourself would you want your child going there or to a school in the suburbs? Even the Soviets could not have devised a better way for one-party rule and all it’s unexplainable bureaucracy than what passes for it in Chicago. It would take less than 5 people per party precinct on the Republican side to get the ball rolling. I’ve heard nothing about this from you. I think it might be an interesting project, besides the one we have talked about in the past through PM, to look into. What would it take for the people of the city to take power to cause change in their city?
Chicagoans don’t have a choice because no matter what the same incestuous party is still in control. If they had to fight for votes and power things may very well be different.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]It is NOT racist, it is the truth.
And school vouchers is one area where black families have consistently been lied to by the Demo party. It is allowing their choice in upgrading the education and future of their children, and the Demo party has consistently forced them to stay ‘down on the plantation’ by denying them vouchers to allow their children to succeed in life.
If one wants to view a racist post, I would refer them to this one…
[quote]A lot of poor parents don’t “choose” anything. They’re either working their arses off,
or they’re drunk, or on drugs, and even if none of that is true, they’re usually not well educated. Many of them are simply not aware of their rights, or what the channels are for exercising them.
Those are facts. The wealthy people with their “connections” really live almost on another planet.[/quote]
The more I read this one…it kinda makes me wanna puke.
This is racist…and classist…and…well…just sick coming from someone who claims to be “educated” in education.[/quote]
School vouchers for poor black families in Chicago as a means to gt their kids out of the failing public schools and into more successful private schools…
So tell me Okami and TC, how is a family who makes maybe $20,000 a year pay for the $33,000+ tuition at a good school (after all, in school choice, all schools should be open to all students and not just the best ones for those who have the money) using a school voucher worth at the most $7000? Even with scholarships, how can a child going to a failing school compete with other kids coming from better schools with better teaching support? I mean, if the kid were doing well and making the highest percentiles, there wouldn’t be as much of a demand for vouchers would there?
Vouchers are merely a wink, wink, nudge, nudge for the well-to-do who use them to save money on tuition they could pretty much already afford without them. The vast majority of families who use school vouchers are from upper-middle income families. They are otherwise useless to those who really need them.
As for the beachfront property in Florida, I’ll pass on that too. Try selling me something a little more believable.
We’ve seen what happens when a Republican government sticks their greasy, ineffectual hands into educational reform. No thanks.
We have a whole generation of NCLB kids who we are going to have to explain to why their education went from being subpar to being training for drones and fodder for the war-machine and just plain tear-inducing. Kids whose leaders believed the best way to make schools better was to take away their funding, driving away all teachers but the ones who had nowhere else to go, and then made their schools into military training camps where more time is spent drilling students into how to line up and march down the corridors than letting them have recess. And that’s not even to say that nice little bit where military recruiters have been given free access to schools that have certain lacking ratings.
Dropout ratings have risen, more and more kids are being labeled as having learning and behavior disabilities (while the amount of money that would be used to buy special ed resources and staff is dramatically slashed), schools are becoming more segregated than they were before Brown, this time not by race as much as by class and the GOP has been working their collective asses off to make that gap even more disparaging.
Both parties are fuck-ups on education seeing as the vast majority of them believe in funding public schools so much their kids are almost exclusively enrolled in private schools, but to declare the Republicans are better at making sure American children are educated well and fairly? Again, even the photos of Bigfoot cruising Walmart that you tried to sell me were more believable.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]It is NOT racist, it is the truth.
And school vouchers is one area where black families have consistently been lied to by the Demo party. It is allowing their choice in upgrading the education and future of their children, and the Demo party has consistently forced them to stay ‘down on the plantation’ by denying them vouchers to allow their children to succeed in life.
If one wants to view a racist post, I would refer them to this one…
[quote]A lot of poor parents don’t “choose” anything. They’re either working their arses off,
or they’re drunk, or on drugs, and even if none of that is true, they’re usually not well educated. Many of them are simply not aware of their rights, or what the channels are for exercising them.
Those are facts. The wealthy people with their “connections” really live almost on another planet.[/quote]
The more I read this one…it kinda makes me wanna puke.
This is racist…and classist…and…well…just sick coming from someone who claims to be “educated” in education.[/quote]
I know, TC. I agree, even, that what I wrote is ugly, ugly. But I’ve been to interviews where principals warn me that many of the parents are on crack and simply do whatever the children tell them to do. I’ve been to parent/teacher confrences where only the parents of “A” students even bother to show up–and those parents aren’t usually the rich parents; they’re the involved parents–I’m agreeing with Okami, here. Rich parents are usually too bussy staying rich to care much about confrencing with parents or their seventh grader’s grades (unless the kid is failing). But it’s not racist–I didn’t mention anything about race and it’s not a racist issue. It’s an issue of such hard living that people just do not have the BASICS well enough attended to–don’t have stable, safe housing, stable employment, employment that pays well enough to meet basic needs–and do tend to have some not so productive coping methods. I was not being judgemental at all when I wrote that. Those are simply the hard facts of the stuff a lot of kids, especially kids in poor districts, deal with every day.
[quote=“Okami”]Housecat, please don’t pull the Alinsky tactic of personalizing the attacks. Play martyr on someone else’s time and not mine, as I have no patience for it.[/quote] Not trying to make anything personal at all. I should have looked up your reference for context, but it does sound awful out of context.
[quote]Citing you Oregon anecdote, lets raise a few questions:
Link?[/quote]
I haven’t asked you for any links to back up your statements. Perhaps we both should be providing some. I’ll have to serch for it, though and I don’t have time now.
I answered that in my post–it was ordered desegregation that caused the bussing. They could not simply take a percentage of each school’s population and send them to the closest school that would serve for a more balanced racial population–the wealth white parents refused to all their kids to be bussed to poor black schools. So some black students were bussed more than three hours to white schools. It had nothing to with a better school system being in demand. I was nothing but politics.
Great question. All things being equal, it has nothing to do with class or race. The point is that all things are far, far from equal. If you’re a working poor parent and can’t afford to keep food on the table, you are NOT going to be able to afford toget up three hours early to drive your kids to a school you know is better, but can’t afford to live near. This is why it’s a class issue. If it were a problem of whites not wanting blacks living in the neighborhood, then it would be a race issue, but that is not what happened. These people were simply too poor to be able to afford to live in these afluent neighborhoods. School zoning laws were designed to keep poor people out–not differently colored people.
Yes, I do, Okami. I very much do. Lots of research has been done that showes that school funding has very little effect on student performance. And actually, teacher quality has the largest impact, but that’s for another thread. I do agree that parents must be involved and must voice their wishes for their student’s to have the best outcomes.
I don’t know the answer to this off the top of my head, but you’d have to prove your theories about length of adjustment periods. However, the question has merrit without the time limitations. The research I’m refering to is more than 10 years old. I think I still have a hard copy of it. If I can find that, I’ll be able to look it up and maybe give you a link. If I can’t, and you really are interested in looking at it, PM me again and I’ll try to send it that way.
A wise decision.
Link?
Link?
Got any stats on that? If it were that easy, Okami, wouldn’t someone have simply had a precinct party membership drive already?
I’m gone for a little while and then some damn straw men pop up. Listen if I wanted straw men, I’d listen to Obambi speechify. Ok now to take apart ImaniOU, my dear sweet misguided love, argument.
[quote]School vouchers for poor black families in Chicago as a means to gt their kids out of the failing public schools and into more successful private schools…[/quote]Who brought up school vouchers? I mean that works as shown in Washington DC with the program that the democrats killed recently. Personally I applaud, as having finally been outed as a racist, I can safely inform everyone that it is a crime to teach a black child how to read. Preposterous you say? Have you seen the high school graduation rates for African Americans?
[quote]So tell me Okami and TC, how is a family who makes maybe $20,000 a year pay for the $33,000+ tuition at a good school (after all, in school choice, all schools should be open to all students and not just the best ones for those who have the money) using a school voucher worth at the most $7000? Even with scholarships, how can a child going to a failing school compete with other kids coming from better schools with better teaching support? I mean, if the kid were doing well and making the highest percentiles, there wouldn’t be as much of a demand for vouchers would there?[/quote] If you are making $20,000/year and have a family, then you’ve made some really bad personal decisions that even charter schools can not even rectify. I prefer to look at the Upper-Lower and lower middle class though.
Consider the following truths: Public schools spend less than 50% of their funds on education, Charter schools spend less than 50% on administration, Children generally need a year to adapt to the higher standards and curriculum of a charter school, charter schools are wildly popular wherever they are able to set up shop, public schools and the people who run them are never penalized for their failure,
Ok now run the following numbers because I know you suck at math ImaniOU. 20 students at $7000/head is $140,000. Now those are the types of numbers that make me a very happy man if I were running a business, which is what you could qualify a school as since it has a revenue, expenses and a product to make. At $140K per class of 20 kids, I can toss $100K at the class and now I have $40K per class to put in my pocket, hell even if I went 25 kids at $5K I’d still have $25K which would be like a 20% profit margin if I were running the show. Maybe the question shouldn’t be the why should they cost money but why there aren’t more of them. I mean outside certain charter school strongholds, the picture is really bleak for them.
[quote]Vouchers are merely a wink, wink, nudge, nudge for the well-to-do who use them to save money on tuition they could pretty much already afford without them. The vast majority of families who use school vouchers are from upper-middle income families. They are otherwise useless to those who really need them.[/quote] And where might this location be of evil upper middle class people using vouchers to offset the price of private education?
[quote]Dropout ratings have risen, more and more kids are being labeled as having learning and behavior disabilities (while the amount of money that would be used to buy special ed resources and staff is dramatically slashed), schools are becoming more segregated than they were before Brown, this time not by race as much as by class and the GOP has been working their collective asses off to make that gap even more disparaging.[/quote]The funniest point of your whole rant as with housecat is neither of you dispute my central tenet that marriage of parents and illegitimacy play a huge role in all of this. Light reading: article.nationalreview.com/?q=OD … Q1NDE3ODk=
[quote]Both parties are fuck-ups on education seeing as the vast majority of them believe in funding public schools so much their kids are almost exclusively enrolled in private schools, but to declare the Republicans are better at making sure American children are educated well and fairly?[/quote]Now if they are both fuck-ups like you say then why are they making decisions about the education of our children while not subjecting their kids to the same education opportunities that they are enforcing on us? As it stands Washington DC with the 3rd highest cost per student in the US does a dismal job of educating children. New Jersey has 500+ school districts in a state that has 21 counties.
I’d suggest you reread what you wrote and rethink your premises ImaniOU. Rather than the reflexive Republicans suck, take time to understand the nuance and debate that the right engages in. Such as :http://www.popecenter.org/ I like reading popecenter.org/clarion_call/ more.
[quote]I believe that’s called democracy, one of the great freedoms for which so many have died.[/quote]Remind me to have you shot as the proletariat destroys you and your bourgeois brethren who oppress us so mightily. :blah:
I’m more of a republican(small r) as I believe that in any system the rights of the minority must be respected and not trampled on by the 50%+1. So things like bicameralism, separation of powers and 2/3 thirds voting really appeal to me.
[quote=“Okami”]I love the irony in your posts Nama, but as a proud dedicated member of the VRWC. I will be arguing with you on the facts on the ground. I also appreciate you burying the race card. [/quote] I love irony too. It’s what makes life so :roflmao:
[quote]How has that voting thing worked out for them? oh wait, you tell us.[/quote] Hmm, Daley’s still in office. Nuff said.
[quote]Just to reiterate, the poor people are voting for the Dem who is shafting their schools but finds time and cash to renovate the rich people’s school for $60M, because they pay him cash. The underground parking lot is quite an effective educational expenditure btw. How has that 89%+ of black people voting for Democrats helped them again?[/quote] Well, I wouldn’t say it’s just poor people voting Dem but it’s overwhelming voting toward Dems because we haven’t had a strong GOP candidate in awhile. Heck, I can’t even recall a GOP candidate for the last mayoral election. Two weak Dem candidates but no GOP, AFAIK. But this isn’t about party lines so much as to who controls the power, Daley is the school’s superintendent. So GOP or Dem, doesn’t matter, as he gets to make the final decisions.
[quote]You have bad schools because they vote Democrat in your city. Look at any large democrat held city and ask yourself would you want your child going there or to a school in the suburbs? Even the Soviets could not have devised a better way for one-party rule and all it’s unexplainable bureaucracy than what passes for it in Chicago. It would take less than 5 people per party precinct on the Republican side to get the ball rolling. I’ve heard nothing about this from you. I think it might be an interesting project, besides the one we have talked about in the past through PM, to look into.[/quote] I don’t think it’s we have bad schools in the city because of voting Dem. Who came up with NCLB? The GOP. We have bad schools in our city because 1)We have a Mayor who is the Superintendent and is a Special Ed child himself. 2)A Mayor who puts “yes” me/women in place to do what he wants. 3)A Board of Education that is appointed and not elected, which would make heck of a difference. Are you seeing that this isn’t about Dems/GOP but rather about clout.
[quote]What would it take for the people of the city to take power to cause change in their city?[/quote] First, oust Daley. Then talk about change.
[quote]Chicagoans don’t have a choice because no matter what the same incestuous party is still in control. If they had to fight for votes and power things may very well be different.[/quote] That may be very true, but it’s not about party. It’s about clout, patronage and a way of doing things for so long that it’s gotten out of hand.
[quote=“ImaniOU”]
School vouchers for poor black families in Chicago as a means to gt their kids out of the failing public schools and into more successful private schools… [/quote] AFAIK, school vouchers has even been touched in this city because we have–ta da: Renaissance 2010. Why have vouchers when you can just tear down the schools, revamp them or whatever else. Daley isn’t interested in vouchers, he’s interested in drawing back the white flight from the late 60s thru the 80s back into the city. And push out low income/Chicago Housing Project dwellers to the outskirts of the city. Make them someone else “problem”.
My only request with this thread/arguement, is that it doesn’t completely boil down to school vouchers: Devil’s playground or Guardian Angels. Look at the overall scheme of how class is going to play a huge factor in education in the 21st century.
Welcome to CPS. Oh it’s been decided, they just won’t say until this Wednesday. But trust me, CPS knows exactly where those kids are going for the time being. I wish I could be there as it’s gonna be so funny to see how these parents have their tantrums but may not get anywhere. It won’t be the first time parents with substantial influence get screwed by CPS/Daley’s decision. And actually I hope they do, not because I want their kids to be affected, but for a movement to begin to remove Daley from office, even though they are in the minority.
