Except I don’t live in a poor area and this is where people dump the garbage.
Go on street view on Google maps and you can clearly see household garbage being dumped along the mountain roads as well as everything else.
It’s a matter of easy access to dump thing and this is one of many places where it’s easy to dump crap. The only saving grace is that the government send out people that clean up along the roads here once every couple of months or so and that’s only because there are some “important” people living in this area, or so I’ve been told.
As for taking garbage to work, will, it’s a fact, my GF’s mother does it and she has several colleagues that does the same. I’m sorry I know people that do things differently from your friends, but it doesn’t make it a ludicrous claim as you put it. So, it might only be a small percentage of people doing it here, but it still happens.
As for garbage on the streets, well, that’s because the clever Taipei City government decided that they should get rid of the bins, as there were too many people throwing their household garbage in them, so now there aren’t enough places for people to chuck their drinks bottles, food wrappers and what not, so it ends up on the street instead, kind of like London, although the reason for lack of bins there has something to do with IRA bombings in the past rather than an unwillingness from the local city council to provide bins due to people dumping household garbage in them…
But Mucha Man knows best, so what’s the point of arguing this back and forth, as he’s right and we’re wrong as he’s lived in Taiwan longer than the rest of us and he’s been on Forumosa longer than us as well, which gives him a free pass to correct everything we say, as he can’t possibly be wrong, right?
[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Except I don’t live in a poor area and this is where people dump the garbage.
Go on street view on Google maps and you can clearly see household garbage being dumped along the mountain roads as well as everything else.
It’s a matter of easy access to dump thing and this is one of many places where it’s easy to dump crap. The only saving grace is that the government send out people that clean up along the roads here once every couple of months or so and that’s only because there are some “important” people living in this area, or so I’ve been told.
As for taking garbage to work, will, it’s a fact, my GF’s mother does it and she has several colleagues that does the same. I’m sorry I know people that do things differently from your friends, but it doesn’t make it a ludicrous claim as you put it. So, it might only be a small percentage of people doing it here, but it still happens.
As for garbage on the streets, well, that’s because the clever Taipei City government decided that they should get rid of the bins, as there were too many people throwing their household garbage in them, so now there aren’t enough places for people to chuck their drinks bottles, food wrappers and what not, so it ends up on the street instead, kind of like London, although the reason for lack of bins there has something to do with IRA bombings in the past rather than an unwillingness from the local city council to provide bins due to people dumping household garbage in them…
But Muzha Man knows best, so what’s the point of arguing this back and forth, as he’s right and we’re wrong as he’s lived in Taiwan longer than the rest of us and he’s been on Forumosa longer than us as well, which gives him a free pass to correct everything we say, as he can’t possibly be wrong, right?[/quote]
there are times when he’s dead wrong, but this time he’s spot on.
[quote=“TaipeiD”][quote=“TheLostSwede”]Except I don’t live in a poor area and this is where people dump the garbage.
Go on street view on Google maps and you can clearly see household garbage being dumped along the mountain roads as well as everything else.
It’s a matter of easy access to dump thing and this is one of many places where it’s easy to dump crap. The only saving grace is that the government send out people that clean up along the roads here once every couple of months or so and that’s only because there are some “important” people living in this area, or so I’ve been told.
As for taking garbage to work, will, it’s a fact, my GF’s mother does it and she has several colleagues that does the same. I’m sorry I know people that do things differently from your friends, but it doesn’t make it a ludicrous claim as you put it. So, it might only be a small percentage of people doing it here, but it still happens.
As for garbage on the streets, well, that’s because the clever Taipei City government decided that they should get rid of the bins, as there were too many people throwing their household garbage in them, so now there aren’t enough places for people to chuck their drinks bottles, food wrappers and what not, so it ends up on the street instead, kind of like London, although the reason for lack of bins there has something to do with IRA bombings in the past rather than an unwillingness from the local city council to provide bins due to people dumping household garbage in them…
But Muzha Man knows best, so what’s the point of arguing this back and forth, as he’s right and we’re wrong as he’s lived in Taiwan longer than the rest of us and he’s been on Forumosa longer than us as well, which gives him a free pass to correct everything we say, as he can’t possibly be wrong, right?[/quote]
there are times when he’s dead wrong, but this time he’s spot on.[/quote]
I admit I don’t know where to get good curtains made, but otherwise…
Let me give you an example of the situation in our neighborhood -which is on lowland, not the hills of Xindian. We are next to the wet market -chickens and ducks included- and next to an open sewer -they call it canal. So a few months ago, with all the “beautification” proyects going on, they planted some flowers in the middle of the road and put some flower shadow boses next to the canal. Were the people happy? No, they were not, as the necessary task of cleaning and spraying the canal so there would not be so many mosquitoes/rats and garbage has not been done regularly. So flowers are not improving the environment. Neither do the local businesses on the main road, the ones people charge hundreds of thousands of nt in rent for, which dump their waste water in the canal. I am talking about the spa, the dentistry, the Chinese medicine place, the aquarium, etc.
So, while I feel paying for garbage is a step forward, I do not feel the money is going to be well used, unless they close the sewer and punish people dumping garbage and waste water there, and make a real plan to deal with garbage dumping in general. It is not part of a specific plan to improve the lives of people in Xindian but just copying what Taipei City does. It also adds to the rising cost of living in an area where there is enough speculation as it is.*
In the local election propaganda, you will see they say “oh, this party is good for Xindian because it built this bridge and improved this area and bla bla bla” but building stuff is not enough. For such a nice area, the feeling of enchrouchament is growing. For people of such limited means, the rent and other living expenses is pushing them out and further out, making their living costs worse. It seems to me that the bags reflect this mentality of making Xindian just another satellite of elitism, not rich per se but expensive, due to manipulation of prices/speculation and glossing over rather than true improvements.
*they claim they will close teh sewer after they build over our older gongwus. Funny, they will still build and sell for at least 25 million each a set of apartments with water spouts towartds the sewer, on top of MRT property…
None of what you are saying though is an argument against this policy. In fact you agree with it but want environmental issues to go further. Well, the only way that will happen is for the public to become aware of the environment more. Having to recycle trash is one way to do that. Not the only way but it’s part of it. It also makes people more demanding.
Look, 15 years ago the streets were really filthy and no one did anything because the task seemed insurmountable. There was a good article a few years back about the struggles of the first volunteer clean up crews to recruit people. Everyone thought it hopeless but slowly as people saw minor changes they began to get involved. In the last ten years there have been hundreds of projects around Taiwan to clean up up areas, rebuild areas, restore villages, beautify neighborhoods. Lots of work to go for sure. But all steps forward build greater momentum.
dan2006 mentioned the government is not doing enough to push industry to clean up. That’s true but it’s also true that recycling is helping because ordinary citizens (who have to recycle) are pissed that they are doing their share and industry is not. Without clean streets and a growing sense that we are all responsible and all need to do our share public sentiments would remain what it was in the 90s.
And again, please stop giving examples about what the poor are doing. They are a minority in Taiwan and even when garbage collection was completely free they still did not take advantage of it. What can you do with such people? It doesn’t matter how much you fine them, they don’t get it. Xindian and areas like it are going to take a while to come round. Yes, a larger plan should be in place, which includes proper sewage lines, education, and so on. Very likely it is and things will improve as the county becomes a city and gets access to greater funds.
But people were already paying for garbage. Before it was combined with the water bill and thus invisible to most people. Soon it won’t be. And in the future the water bills will be just water and thus cheaper. This isn’t really a new charge, just a reassigned one – one that benefits those who recycle and punishes (a few NT) those who don’t.
People who regularly have to throw out an exceptionally large amount of trash will no longer have their garbage fees subsidized by those whose households don’t produce as much trash, that’s all.
Yeah right, you really think you’re going to get cheaper water bills? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That’s just not going to happen, they’ll just tax you for the bags on top of what you’re already paying for the water rate, as they’ll come up with some excuse as to why they won’t lower that to reflect the new bag charge…
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens. I don’t have any big hopes that this is going to improve a thing, as this is Taiwan after all, where no-one gives a shit, not even if the shit is in their own back/front yard most of the time. I see so many people that walk and eat or drink something and then just drop the garbage where they stand. This isn’t going to change, but right, that’s not household garbage, so I can’t use that as a valid point here…
But we’ve already seen what happens. The city of Taipei initiated the same program years ago. Water/trash bills went down. The amount of recyclables put into the trash went down. Recycling went up. And, no, there wasn’t an epidemic of people crossing over to Taipei County to dump their trash.
[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Yeah right, you really think you’re going to get cheaper water bills? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That’s just not going to happen, they’ll just tax you for the bags on top of what you’re already paying for the water rate, as they’ll come up with some excuse as to why they won’t lower that to reflect the new bag charge…[/quote]
On page 3 of this thread,
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]The special-bag collection started several months ago here in Linkou. I think it’s been a great success.
… To my surprise, the pay-per-bag scheme has actually turned out to be a money-saver for me. The cost of the bags I use is actually less than the old garbage-collection charge that used to be included in the water bill - and as the great majority of my garbage consists of soiled nappies, I’ll be saving even more when the little one doesn’t need to use nappies any more.
[/quote]
I haven’t checked too carefully, but I believe my water bill is lower too. We started this new trash bag program back in July in Zhonghe. If I remember, I’ll compare my new and old water bills to see what the difference is.
[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Yeah right, you really think you’re going to get cheaper water bills? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That’s just not going to happen, they’ll just tax you for the bags on top of what you’re already paying for the water rate, as they’ll come up with some excuse as to why they won’t lower that to reflect the new bag charge…
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens. I don’t have any big hopes that this is going to improve a thing, as this is Taiwan after all, where no-one gives a shit, not even if the shit is in their own back/front yard most of the time. I see so many people that walk and eat or drink something and then just drop the garbage where they stand. This isn’t going to change, but right, that’s not household garbage, so I can’t use that as a valid point here…[/quote]
[quote=“scomargo”][quote=“TheLostSwede”]Yeah right, you really think you’re going to get cheaper water bills? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That’s just not going to happen, they’ll just tax you for the bags on top of what you’re already paying for the water rate, as they’ll come up with some excuse as to why they won’t lower that to reflect the new bag charge…[/quote]
On page 3 of this thread,
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]The special-bag collection started several months ago here in Linkou. I think it’s been a great success.
… To my surprise, the pay-per-bag scheme has actually turned out to be a money-saver for me. The cost of the bags I use is actually less than the old garbage-collection charge that used to be included in the water bill - and as the great majority of my garbage consists of soiled nappies, I’ll be saving even more when the little one doesn’t need to use nappies any more.
[/quote]
I haven’t checked too carefully, but I believe my water bill is lower too. We started this new trash bag program back in July in Zhonghe. If I remember, I’ll compare my new and old water bills to see what the difference is.[/quote]
Yes, it was itemized in the water bill, and has now been removed. It was a small amount, just a few hundred NT (too low in my opinion), but still a wee bit more than I’ve been spending each month on the bags.
I’ll be a double beneficiary, because I’m still paying a water bill for my empty flat in Xindian, where I don’t throw out any garbage at all.
I’d also like to add that, while I was initially worried that it might prompt more people to discard rubbish in the environment, I haven’t actually noticed any increase in the amount of garbage scattered about in garbage-strewn Linkou.
OK, then I must make a confesion: I pay 253 nts in my water bill. I dunno if it can get any lower. As to power bills, my Internet fee is higher than my electricity bill, even though I left the AC on for my doggie all day long…
It is our best guess that our area fees are subsidized somehow, while not being an older veterans village per se, it may still get some breaks. If one thing compensates the other, fine, but I hope it does not put too much of a burden on the poor/elderly. The recycling is done by them, anyhow, because they pick up the stuff they can sell/fix. We already have volunteer cleaning crews for streets and gutters, and our outdoor market leaves no evidence of its presence at 2pm every day (except for the poultry, but those live indoors).
I am just concerned whether this will be -hopefully-, as Muzha Man says, the spark to make other improvements, or whether the money will go to who knows where and the improvements will be delayed or used to drive people away. Call me an unbeliever, then, as currently, from the flower pot example, I am a bit less than confident on whether it will work.
[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Yeah right, you really think you’re going to get cheaper water bills? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That’s just not going to happen, they’ll just tax you for the bags on top of what you’re already paying for the water rate, as they’ll come up with some excuse as to why they won’t lower that to reflect the new bag charge…[/quote]
This system has been tested in Taipei, and it has been shown to work very well. Water bills are down, less waste is generated, more people recycle.
I bought a jumbo bag of trash bags that lasted me two years. It cost something like NT$250 or thereabouts; maybe NT$350. So long ago I forgot exactly how much.
A lot of whining on this board for a tested and proven program.
Well according to my neighbors reaction to my ‘normal’ trash bags tonight they are doing the ‘tax bags’ here in Banciao now.
Seems like a good thing, but I do not know where to buy them at. Any assistance would be great. I dont speak Chinese so I was not able to get info from my neighbors. I am more then willing to buy them, just need to know where to get them.
[quote=“tcarnagan”]Well according to my neighbors reaction to my ‘normal’ trash bags tonight they are doing the ‘tax bags’ here in Banqiao now.
Seems like a good thing, but I do not know where to buy them at. Any assistance would be great. I don’t speak Chinese so I was not able to get info from my neighbors. I am more then willing to buy them, just need to know where to get them.
Thank you for your time,
Thomas[/quote]
7-eleven. Wellcome supermarket. Different sizes too, so determine how much you want to store in one bag before tossing.
[quote=“Chris”][quote=“TheLostSwede”]Yeah right, you really think you’re going to get cheaper water bills? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That’s just not going to happen, they’ll just tax you for the bags on top of what you’re already paying for the water rate, as they’ll come up with some excuse as to why they won’t lower that to reflect the new bag charge…[/quote]
This system has been tested in Taipei, and it has been shown to work very well. Water bills are down, less waste is generated, more people recycle.
I bought a jumbo bag of trash bags that lasted me two years. It cost something like NT$250 or thereabouts; maybe NT$350. So long ago I forgot exactly how much.
A lot of whining on this board for a tested and proven program.[/quote]
Now Chris, this was tested in the first world country club that is Taipei city. We are talking about bringing the system down on the people now. I believe Sweedie is right: who can predict how hoi polloi will react when they save money? I believe they might just use their extra cash to buy more items they can toss into the mountains.
Just bought my first pre-paid garbage bags. Bag of 20 for the size that fits in my bin, NT$210 from 7/11. They only had the small size at Wellcome. For some reason reading above, I thought it was going to be a lot more expensive. Still need to pay NT$210 though were I would only pay around NT65 for my garbage bags before from the Junk Shop.
Just wondering, do Taiwanese home-owners pay something like council rates as we would back home, which includes your rubbish collection? I’m a renter, so I don’t know. Has anyone ever worked out how much it costs for the garbos to come around and pick up your bin once a week? And we have those big wheelie bins back home, 3 per household now for different items.
I dunno if it can get any lower. As to power bills, my Internet fee is higher than my electricity bill, even though I left the AC on for my doggie all day long…