I should say so. Would you like your ovaries sprinkled with spices just for barking?[/quote]
Maybe. Is that an offer?
I should say so. Would you like your ovaries sprinkled with spices just for barking?[/quote]
Maybe. Is that an offer?[/quote]
You surprise me MR Funk. Indeed you do, sir.
I was attacked out of the blue by three dogs last week. There is no way I was projecting any emotion whatsoever towards them because I didn’t know they were there until I came whizzing around a corner on my bike and boom! they were on me and “biting” at my feet.
Then again today I was up at pingling walking on the highway and this BIG freaking dog comes charging at me. Really ferocious and from quite a ways away, far enough that I actually had enough time to think to myself…
…this isn’t easy for a fearful or aggressive person to accept, but you need to do nothing. That’s right. Nothing. Stand your ground. Put the bike between yourself and the dog, stand confidently but calmly, and don’t look the dogs in the eyes. Look at the horizon, and tell yourself that you mean no harm but you are claiming this space around you as your own. Project calm assertiveness, and dogs will instantly understand that you are neither threat nor prey. Some may come to sniff you…
He kept coming. Really nasty.
I kicked him in the face so hard my own universe exploded.
Then there was that moment of calm that comes after a bit of pure violence like that. Where you aren’t thinking about how sore your back is, or how stupid your students are, or how the fuck you are going to pay to get your teeth fixed…
There’s just the purity of it. I don’t know how else to describe it except perhaps to say that it was exhilarating.
The dog nturally wasn’t so thrilled and was giving some thought to another go at me so I’m imagining, in that vaguely ashamed way you do, what is going to happen next. I don’t have room to get another kick off so I’m trying to visulaize how I’m going to get my hands around it’s throat. What that’s going to be like as he tries to bite at my arms.
It is the viseral nature of it that stands out. The skin and flesh and bones of it. And I don’t know why that should be surprising either. It’s not philosophy, is it?
Just then his master shows up and calls him off. The dog was looking for an excuse to be called off at this point I think.
I had just kicked the man’s dog really savagely, at least it felt about as savagely as I can get, so I’m now half expecting some sort of confrontation with him.
Then I remember that I’m in Taiwan and I recall that extraordinary capacity Taiwanese men, particularly older blue collar working men, have for diffusing tension. I anticipate it. I understand it. I do my paisei. He does his paisei. It’s all cool. I know it’s going to be cool because i have been in this country so long I have absorbed it’s soul. That is honestly how I feel about it.
I go on my way. Sit down at a bench to sort out my stuff.
Then he comes over, brings the dog and starts talking to it in Chinese. Trying to show me it isn’t such a bad animal. It always impresses me when a dog understands Chinese, particularly when they appear to understand it better than I do.
Then he just up and smacks the dog on the head. As if the dog would remember ten minutes later what he had done wrong.
And maybe he did. You got the feeling that he did. He seemed now to be quite an intelligent animal. Kind of sad and soulful the way dogs are sometimes, especially when they have been let loose half their lives and kicked around the other.
It’s clear that you completely misread my post and exaggerated the aggressiveness of the dogs you met, both in your mind and in your own post. And then you lost your bottle and struck out, violently harming a barking dog.
Great post. You’re amazing. :liar:
The first group were biting at my feet. I kicked one of those.
The second one was a LARGE TOUGH animal. It was particulalrly viscious in it’s approach. I’m rushed by barking dogs all the time and have never kicked one or harmed them in any way, except twice in the last week.
I was intending to just stand my ground and let him rush up and bark himself out. Maybe I’d make a bit of a dominant display by raising my voice at him. That’s what I always do. This one spooked me though by not pausing. He just kept coming past whatever invisible line there is and I kicked him. I didn’t think “oh, I should kick him”. I just kicked him. It seemed like I nailed him pretty good but he didn’t seem injured by it actually. More like I bruised his ego.
Would he have actually mauled me if I had stood still? Maybe, but I doubt it. However I say that now after seeing him settled down.
Anyway, this isn’t any sort of apology. My body obviously felt severely threatened and it was body that responded.
bob, it’s OK. A few people aren’t able to keep their cool enough for the technique to work, as it does take confidence, and I think no one here is going to judge you for panicking.
It was a little disturbing, though, that you wrote about your violent and abusive loss of control with such glee, and you may want to have good think about that.
The technique I teach is part of the leadership approach to dog rehabilitation and control and comes in very useful as a life skill. Not everyone has the perceived ability to achieve it, and I have to accept that. Of course, it goes without saying that those who do fail are the ones most in need of the skill. I just hope that others can learn from your mistake and see that glorifying animal abuse is not the way to go about compensating for a deficiency in control or leadership skills in our lives, and in fact will have an effect that is polar opposite of what might have been hoped.
Thankfully your short-lived martial domination of your small fellow animal appears not to have been quite as thorough as you may have imagined, as the dog, by your account, seemed to be pretty much unaffected by what you had perceived to be a ‘very powerful’ blow on your part. You could try signing up for tae kwon do or karate classes to work on that particular weakness (both of these would take you for the most part through practiced forms against an imaginary non-resisting opponent, which you may find quite to your liking and physical skill).
Do read through my original post again to see where you went wrong and try visualizing yourself achieving the technique, perhaps by imagining you are someone competent and masterful, as this can really help your self-confidence.
All the best to you, bob, and let’s all just be grateful that the dog was unharmed by your attempted display of manliness.
Sean
I just described what happened and what it felt like. You apparently hold yourself in such high estimation that you can contradict my version of events without having yourself been there. It wasn’t a small animal. It was a large stong animal. After the event I really looked at it wondering if in fact my perceptions on that had been mistaken. They weren’t.
You contradict “yourself” in saying on the one hand that I panicked, and on the other that I was trying to be manly. It wasn’t really either one. If I’d panicked I would have started running away and if I was trying to be manly I would probably have kept attacking “him.” (Similar in a way to the way you continue to attack me - perhaps you have confidence issues that need looking into. I’d be concerned about that if I was you.) In fact I had the instinct to protrect myself and I did. And it felt incredible. It was exciting and frightening at the same time. That is just how it felt. I think a lot of people who get involved in violence feel that it is exciting. Imagine the last person who got right in your face attempting to intimidate you with threats of violence. You don’t imagine it would be exciting to punch him in the face? Perhaps not exactly the most enlightened response but exciting? This situation was similar. I was definitley confronted, and suddenly, by a large and what appeared to be viscious animal. It felt good on one level to kick him. And of course since I was kicking him out of an instinct to “survive” I kicked him as hard as I could. If you doubt that I kicked him pretty hard you should growl in my face sometime. Anyway, that hardly equates with glorifying animal abuse. Do you honestly imagine I would approach an animal that was not threatening me and abuse it?
Within about five minutes of the event, when I saw the dog up-close, I felt regret over what had happened. My original story I think makes that pretty clear.
This is the second time now that I have mentioned that I am charged by dogs a lot. I wander the hills around here about as much as anybody and so I get charged. In the vast majority of cases I find it entertaining. An opportunity to watch a dog being territorial one moment and in the next sniffing your fingers. It’s fun to see the transformation. Other times it’s quite frightening and you just do your best to stand your ground. In some areas you have the instinct to carry a stick. Anybody who says the dogs in the countryside around here aren’t intimidating at times is a fool or lying. An understanding of dog psychology could help alleviate the natural fear people have but equating that natural fear with a general lack of confidence is flawed logic and more than a bit condescending.
Anyway, condescension was obviouly what you were after in your post. I am just curious if you can see how hypocritical that is. How directly opposed to your stated aim.
[quote=“Cervantes”]I had been on several occasion chased by stray dogs during my long weekend rides and got to the point of having thoughts of violently exacting my revenge but sense always get to the better part of me. There’s this 2 stray dogs that inhabits a particular spot on a sloping road somewhere in Jinshan and they always give me a chase like I’m trying to break away in the peloton up in the Au’bisque. The worst part is the slope is positive and they are in the right side of the road. I would sometimes swing to the fast lane but this is dangerous as scooters are always zipping by and one time they would risk a leg or two evading the scoots just to get a bite out of my leg 
.
So, I was thinking of getting: pepper spray, telescopic nightstick, BB gun, staple gun even a nail gun! just to keep those devils at bay.
It’s really taxing for my legs, my lungs and my heart to be chased by beavis and butthead and also very dangerous as motorized vehicles are zipping by at 70KpH.
I can always report them to animal control but I don’t know where and I don’t know how and too much of a hassle I guess so I lost the interest to do that.
Please advise. Thanks. 
[/quote]
Buy a car! It seems to work quite well for me.
[quote=“sulavaca”][quote=“Cervantes”]I had been on several occasion chased by stray dogs during my long weekend rides and got to the point of having thoughts of violently exacting my revenge but sense always get to the better part of me. There’s this 2 stray dogs that inhabits a particular spot on a sloping road somewhere in Jinshan and they always give me a chase like I’m trying to break away in the peloton up in the Au’bisque. The worst part is the slope is positive and they are in the right side of the road. I would sometimes swing to the fast lane but this is dangerous as scooters are always zipping by and one time they would risk a leg or two evading the scoots just to get a bite out of my leg 
.
So, I was thinking of getting: pepper spray, telescopic nightstick, BB gun, staple gun even a nail gun! just to keep those devils at bay.
It’s really taxing for my legs, my lungs and my heart to be chased by beavis and butthead and also very dangerous as motorized vehicles are zipping by at 70KpH.
I can always report them to animal control but I don’t know where and I don’t know how and too much of a hassle I guess so I lost the interest to do that.
Please advise. Thanks. 
[/quote]
Buy a car! It seems to work quite well for me.[/quote]
Somebody’s stirring the pot and you closed the lid! 
Anyway, cars are for hauling the fam, the in-laws and what not. 2 wheel motorized or non motorized bikes are the way to go.
[quote=“bob”]I just described what happened and what it felt like. You apparently hold yourself in such high estimation that you can contradict my version of events without having yourself been there. It wasn’t a small animal. It was a large stong animal. After the event I really looked at it wondering if in fact my perceptions on that had been mistaken. They weren’t.
You contradict “yourself” in saying on the one hand that I panicked, and on the other that I was trying to be manly. It wasn’t really either one. If I’d panicked I would have started running away and if I was trying to be manly I would probably have kept attacking “him.” (Similar in a way to the way you continue to attack me - perhaps you have confidence issues that need looking into. I’d be concerned about that if I was you.) In fact I had the instinct to protrect myself and I did. And it felt incredible. It was exciting and frightening at the same time. That is just how it felt. I think a lot of people who get involved in violence feel that it is exciting. Imagine the last person who got right in your face attempting to intimidate you with threats of violence. You don’t imagine it would be exciting to punch him in the face? Perhaps not exactly the most enlightened response but exciting? This situation was similar. I was definitley confronted, and suddenly, by a large and what appeared to be viscious animal. It felt good on one level to kick him. And of course since I was kicking him out of an instinct to “survive” I kicked him as hard as I could. If you doubt that I kicked him pretty hard you should growl in my face sometime. Anyway, that hardly equates with glorifying animal abuse. Do you honestly imagine I would approach an animal that was not threatening me and abuse it?
Within about five minutes of the event, when I saw the dog up-close, I felt regret over what had happened. My original story I think makes that pretty clear.
This is the second time now that I have mentioned that I am charged by dogs a lot. I wander the hills around here about as much as anybody and so I get charged. In the vast majority of cases I find it entertaining. An opportunity to watch a dog being territorial one moment and in the next sniffing your fingers. It’s fun to see the transformation. Other times it’s quite frightening and you just do your best to stand your ground. In some areas you have the instinct to carry a stick. Anybody who says the dogs in the countryside around here aren’t intimidating at times is a fool or lying. An understanding of dog psychology could help alleviate the natural fear people have but equating that natural fear with a general lack of confidence is flawed logic and more than a bit condescending.
Anyway, condescension was obviouly what you were after in your post. I am just curious if you can see how hypocritical that is. How directly opposed to your stated aim.[/quote]
You came on here trying to show that the method I described didn’t work by describing how you kicked an animal who was a fraction your size very hard in the face as soon as it was within reach, which of course is exactly the opposite of what you should do.
You panicked, and then described the event in the manner of someone overcoming a powerful foe. If that dog was intent on hurting you, you would have been bitten. So, you viciously attacked a dog that was doing what we said it would do and barking at you with the hope of scaring you. Then you described how you were planning your next (and ultimate) move, which I believe involved choking the dog (was this the manly bit you were referring to not having done?). And you described all this in a manner that showed, as you have stated several times, that you enjoyed it.
I certainly do hold myself in higher esteem than someone who would do something so foolish. I have never punched someone in the face outside of a sparring session, and I think you’re giving a lot away about yourself when mentioning your feelings about that too, bob. Your childish offer to kick me should I growl at you underlines that. Yes, that’s condescending. If you want me to look up to you, bob, you’re going to have to do something much loftier than kicking a dog and boasting about it. To think I would not look down on someone for doing that is a bit of an oversight on your part.
If you really feel that the best way to deal with an intimidating dog or human is to kick that being as hard as possible, then best of luck to you, mate. We obviously operate on very different principles and practices. Yours are not only foolish, but also illegal.
Genuinely glad you didn’t get bitten, bob. Not sure if the panic-and-brag technique will bring you such fortune next time, though. I can only reiterate that working on staying calm and confident in difficult or dangerous situations is the tried and tested method; that’s what you should have done, but weren’t able. Perhaps next time?
Happy bicycling.
Sean
i agree with Bob on this point, for there truly are some dogs for whom your system does not work, sometimes. there are some dogs for whom the difference in size is immaterial, who do not have the psychology that you rely on for your admirable system to work, who have more to prove to their pack than to lose by backing down, or who have been trained (purposefully or inadvertently) to attack, and they can certainly bite harder than i can or bob can. but for those dogs, I would agree, pepper spray is useless. perhaps a taser? 
we have different opinions, StrayDog, on this point and others, and neither of us is universally right. of course, I know nothing about animals so I’ll just go back in my corner now.
With all respect, I have to deal every week with dogs who are known to be aggressive, and in total have dealt with thousands of dogs, particularly strays, at close quarters. It is precisely because this technique does work that I have only been bitten once by a stray dog (a mother who nipped my heel as I was carrying away her pup to be checked at a vet).
Just yesterday I had to work with a dog who was known to be vicious and had therefore never been out for a walk. I used the technique I described above to get the dog to accept me and the leash in seconds, and he enjoyed his first steps in years beyond the confines of his albeit spacious pen. His owners were amazed that I’d been able to get near him without being bitten. Fifteen minutes and a short walk later, he was licking my face and pining my departure. This stuff does work, and that’s why I take the time to teach it.
I’m clearly not a fan of animal abuse, and although I do sympathise with hounded cyclists, I’m going to let someone know, calmly and confidently, when he has been both cruel and foolish.
This technique is the best I can offer. If you have the calmness and confidence to pull it off, it’s your best bet in each and every situation where you are confronted by a seemingly aggressive dog–or human.
Let’s face it. Stray Dog smells. I know this because he lives 2 km from me and I can still smell him. But on this one he is SO right. I, too, have to deal with stray dogs on many occasions. I walk with my dog in the wild, wild, uncharted boondocks of Bitan and because he’s huge, he attracts attention. I admit that in my ignorance, I used to try a stick, shouting, waving the old arms about the place, etc. Great way to accelerate the confrontation, to be sure.
What WORKS, however, is precisely what the smelly New Garden City Prick advocates. Let’s face it. He smells. And is tall and blonde, the twat, but doing as he suggests WORKS. Even on a bunch of curs intent on taking chunks out of my precious wee Boo-boo. It simply WORKS.
I read this thread because it is a subject that relates directly to my everyday life.
I thought the advice you gave was absolutely excellent.
But when it came down to it on this occassion it wasn’t the way “my body” responded. It was a
LARGE DOG
. I said that in the beginning. It was particularly
VISCIOUS
in it’s appearance. I said that in the beginning too.
How many times do I need to tell you that it was
a large dog
.
Were you there?
This could have been so much easier if you had just read what I wrote.
It was running straight at me and was close enough for me to kick it. How much closer would it need to get before a person might react physically. A particularly large viscious looking dog.
When I actually connected it felt exciting. That is how violence actually feels sometimes. I think it is because it places you so directly in the moment and fills your body with adrenelin. I also think that it feels somehow “just” in a way to respond physically to physical threats to your person. As thoiugh you are setting some balance straight. Should I lie about that?
Then I didn’t know if it was going to continue in what seemed to me like an attack and I had to think about what I was going to do next. It was going to involve dealing with it’s jaws in some way. My instinct was to go for it’s throat. I don’t see what is “manly” about that. It was just the reality of the situation. I was in a fight with a dog.
I’ve been involved in a few really violent situations. One involving a guy threatening people on a bus with a knife. He got off the bus and then back on and when he stuck his head up through the door I kicked him in the face too. It was a horrible, outrageous, completely stupid experience and absolutely fucking thrilling. And it was definitley a good idea to kick that guy in the face as far as I was concerned. He didn’t get back on the bus. The driver contacted dispatch and they contacted the police.
Anyway, what you did was come and re-interpret my story. It wasn’t a large animal it was a small one. I abused a small defenseless animal because I panicked and wanted to feel manly? I should take karate lessons because obviously I can’t kick. If I can’t kick how could I have possibly hurt the dog? Serioulsy, try to answer that.
It was a big tough animal. Fifteen of us could have taken turns kicking it without doing any real damage. If I had kicked and missed I could have turned what was likely just another (particularly egregious) bark and charge event into a real physical challenge that I would most definitely have lost. I understand that. If it had been seriously attacking me at the outset I would almost definitely have lost that contest as well. I understand that too.
Anyway, according to you I came here and lied and bragged about the whole dog story. I didn’t (well maybe I bragged a bit, but I wasn’t lying). I told it as honestly and as correctly as I possibly could, with one exception. I wasn’t thinking about where I quoted you but went back and found that later because I thought it was the heart of what you were saying. While it is very good advice it can be “extremely” hard to live up to.
I apologize for the “growl in my face” comment. That was over the top, but seriously man you insulted me. I have no more desire to literally kick you than you do to literally growl in my face. You did give me a round about internet growl though, or at least I thought you did. In the end I had to ask myself, “Does he really think I am so out of touch with reality that he can tell me what happened to me, or did he “intend” to insult me by being that utterly patronizing and condesending?” In the end I concluded that you meant to insult me and you still do. I told you that I had a chance to observe the dog later. I took a really good look at him because, frankly, I like telling stories, and I like knowing whether the the story is absolutely true.
I looked at the freaking dog.
Did you look at the dog?
If I was to draw an analogy between the dog and a human I’d say this was a twenty six year old, 195 lb construction worker type dog. One with a penchant for alcoholism and bar fights. It was a wounded dog in other words. A dangerous dog. Not at all as dangerous as it appeared when it came snarling and barking at me but still, dangerous.
Did you see the dog? What colour was it? Can you describe it’s eyes?
Actually, can you go back and read my original post and conclude that I was suggesting that I had done the “right” thing? To be perfectly honest I had always regarded you as an intelligent person but I am beginning to wonder.
I do believe yours was an instinctive reaction, bob. You reacted as most people unschooled in the art of dog whispering would.
I’ve learned a lot in this thread and the one that was referenced.
There are teachable moments that should be exploited by those who have the desire, the motiation and the reason to impart knowledge.
But “bad medicine” goes down easier with a bit of sugar, no?
I think some dogs will try to bite you no matter what you do. So what do you do then? If the dog is close enough that you can kick it, you’re a short leap away from having your flesh shredded. That’s scary…
Was it ever freaking scary. I did the instinctive thing. I did the wrong thing. But, I did the foolish thing?
I had about five seconds to decide what to do about this dog. One minute I’m clicking away on my camera and the next he is right on me.
If it had actually been as aggresive as I percieved it to be I would rather that I got in that first shot.
VERY few dogs are actually that aggressive though. Stray dog is “essentially” right, of course.
I was at a park the other day and more or less stumbled upon what at first appear to be just another gaggle of half feral dogs. It is almost impossible to avoid them really. I should have just wandered out again but instead I tried to sort of smooch up to them a bit. I just did a bit of a click of the lips thing because honestly, I LOVE dogs.
BIG MISTAKE in this case. They weren’t savage loking at all from a distance but up close you could tell that there was just something lacking. These dogs didn’t live in any sort of relationship with people but as wild dogs in an urban industrial landscape. They were just on the verge of attacking me and if they had, holy shit.
I essentially did what stray dog would recommend I think. Tried to remain confident, upright, non confrontational, and slowly walked away without engaging their eyes.
THAT was scary because these weren’t half domesticated dogs that I had mistaken for being wild. They were actually wild.
Doorman, take a look at the video link I posted in a previous post. It’s a demonstration using a retired trained attack dog (a German shepherd). It’s fantastic. You can see clearly what happens when you raise the level of aggression against a big, vicious dog.
It really does come down to whether you can keep your cool or not. It’s like lying still while a bear sniffs you; it’s not the easiest thing to do and certainly not what the knee-jerk wants to do, but it is the safest and most effective.
As you see now, I am ignoring that most terrible of wee beasties, the sandman. Watch what happens. He’ll probably roll on his back and show us why Scots carry magnifying glasses in their sporrans. This stuff really works.
Well, no. It all depends if the bear intends to eat you are not. If he does and you just lie there you are just making his job easier. 
That’s why I don’t chip in advice on the ‘Pepper spray for bears’ thread . . .