I wanted to point out some words that it seems the Pro-China Pan-Blue Unification crowd are fond of using and ask for some help from others for any other words I missed, or for better interpretations or for other words to use instead of these.
Here goes.
Mainland: By referring to China as the mainland it confuses people into believing that Taiwan is part of China in the way in which Hawaii people refer to the US mainland. This is left over from the old KMT days when this was free China and the other place was Mainland China. I move that we shouldn’t call it mainland and refer to it as China instead, so no one is confused. Waisheng Ren: (Outside Province people) This term is also wrong because that would be saying that Taiwan is a province of China. For want of a better term, I call these people Chinese or New Taiwanese depending on if they were born in China, or born in Taiwan to China born people. Bensheng Ren: (Original Province People) Taiwan is not a province so this term shouldn’t be used. Instead use Taiwan people. GuoYu: National Language? I prefer to use Beijing Hua or Zhongguo Hua. ROC: Republic of China: This of course is the official word used for this country, but many here refer to Taiwan as Taiwan and would like to change the official name to Taiwan. The Pro-China crowd always say ROC and rarely if ever say Taiwan. Chinese: This is the word used by the Pro-China Pan-Blue unification crowd to refer to all people residing in Taiwan. They rarely or almost never refer to Taiwan people as Taiwan ren or Taiwanese. They always say Chinese, whether the people they are referring to have lived in Taiwan for over 400 years or only 50 years.
[quote=“Hobart”]Waisheng Ren: (Outside Province people) This term is also wrong because that would be saying that Taiwan is a province of China. For want of a better term, call this people Chinese or New Taiwanese depending on if they were born in China or born in Taiwan to born in China people.
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I like a word I heard recently to describe these people. “Xinzhumin” Much more accurate.
Well, you learn something new every day! I don’t read much on politics, in English or in Chinese, so I’d assumed waishengren was 外生人, as in “those born ‘outside’ (Taiwan)”. 外省人 makes more sense though… Thanks for that.
And as for “dalu” 大陸, I think the problem with that term isn’t so much the Chinese as the English. It could also be translated as “the continent”, along the same lines as “continental Europe”. Not that it’s much better that way, but it’s certainly less loaded.
[quote=“Hobart”] Waisheng Ren: (Outside Province people) This term is also wrong because that would be saying that Taiwan is a province of China. For want of a better term, I call these people Chinese or New Taiwanese depending on if they were born in China, or born in Taiwan to China born people.[/quote]
I now simply call them Waiguoren, since China is another country. Having an ROC passport doesn’t make someone born in a China a Taiwanese, any more than it would make me a Taiwanese.
My aborigine friend asked me if this “Xinzhumin” is correctly used to describe the immigrants who came here from China 300 and 400 years ago . . . . . . ??
My aborigine friend asked me if this “Xinzhumin” is correctly used to describe the immigrants who came here from China 300 and 400 years ago . . . . . . ??[/quote]
According to a friend of mine whose parents came in 1949, the term is used to describe those people who came with the KMT.
This is just stupid if they were born in Taiwan. They are Taiwanese for christ’s sake!
Benshengren, and Waishengren should all be called Taiwanese to stop this stupid practice of discriminating dependeing on whether your ancestors arrived in Taiwan 50, 100 or 400 years ago.
49ers means people who came over around 1949 (not their descendants).
Dalu, and Mainland are bad terms, but they’re such a habit, it’s hard to get rid fo them. I try.
Same with Chinese, but of course it can be used to mean culturally Chinese too. There is are Chinese foods and Chiense holidays in Taiwan that really are ‘Chinese’. But I try to use Taiwanese for the people here and the culture as a whole.
Guoyu is the natioanl language, whether or not you think it should be. It is certianly not Beijinghua.
This is just stupid if they were born in Taiwan. They are Taiwanese for christ’s sake!
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C’mon Brian, I know your reading comprehension is better than that. I specifically meant those ‘old turnips’ who came in 1949.
You referred to the 49ers, but Hobart was referring to the term Waishengren, the majority of which were born in Taiwan.
And this xinzhumin is ridiculous. In NZ we don’t call the children and grandchildren of those that came in the 1950s wave of immigration from the UK, anything but New Zealanders. If you want to use words like this your’e not trying to get rid of politically loaded terms. You’re just trying to change them to politically loaded terms that you like.
Hate to burst your rose-colored bubble there Bri, but NZ’s not all roses on the identity front. A friend of mine - white boy, dairy farmer, whole stereotypical pakeha nine yards - tried to use “New Zealander” when asked that sort of thing on official forms. Without fail he was told “stop being an idiot and fill this out properly,” even by government departments. That said, we’re still nowhere near as bad as here.
[quote=“Bu Lai En”]You referred to the 49ers, but Hobart was referring to the term Waishengren, the majority of which were born in Taiwan.
[/quote]Yes, and that brings up the sticky question of those who were born here, but both parents are foreigners (from China), and those who are born here to one Taiwanese and one Chinese parent. I call the latter ‘混血兒’.
[quote]If you want to use words like this your’e not trying to get rid of politically loaded terms. You’re just trying to change them to politically loaded terms that you like.
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Yes, but I didn’t think that was in question.
I seldom let either of the following pass in stories I copyedit:
[ul][li]on Taiwan – as opposed to “in Taiwan”[/li]
[li]reunification – I almost always change this to “unification”[/li][/ul]
I don’t have any problem with “Guoyu” when people are speaking in Mandarin, which is the national languge. It’s certainly not “Beijinghua.”
[quote=“cranky laowai”]I seldom let either of the following pass in stories I copyedit:
[ul][li]on Taiwan – as opposed to “in Taiwan”[/li]
[li]reunification – I almost always change this to “unification”[/li][/ul]
I don’t have any problem with “Guoyu” when people are speaking in Mandarin, which is the national languge. It’s certainly not “Beijinghua.”[/quote]
I agree with you on the second, but what is wrong with on Taiwan? Since Taiwan is an island, it is certainly appropriate in my book.
Xinzhumin is not bad. I kind of like it. Polite, but to the point.
Regarding Guoyu and Beijinghua, I got that from a taxi driver. Was interesting. He was of course Taiwan ren and quite old so he resented Mandarin as the national language, so he kept saying my Beijing hua was very good, so I questioned him on why he called it that.
Brian, maybe you feel that everyone born in Taiwan should just call themselves Taiwan ren, and I agree with you, but a lot of 49ers don’t use that term. They refuse to. However, I like your idea to just call them Taiwanese anyway, or at least I will use Lee Teng Hui’s term xin Taiwan ren.
[quote=“Hobart”]GuoYu: National Language? I prefer to use Beijing Hua or Zhongguo Hua.
[/quote]
I almost always use “Putonghua”. Invariably, I get corrected most of the time with the above, “GuoYu”. I use Putonghua for the exact reason you give above – “Who’s national language is it we’re talking about?” See maowang’s thread re: “Chinese” in Open Forum.
It’s the national language according ot the law - whether you agree with it or not.
But Bejinghua is not what is spoken here. It means ‘Mandarin as spoken in Beijing’, which is different from standard Mandarin in China, and certainly different from standard Mandarin in Taiwan.
Putonghua refers to standard Mandartin used in China.
Right :s Polite like calling someone a newbie or a newcomer is polite. Again I argue that it is silly and devisive to argue over whether someone’s anscestors arrived 50 years ago or 100. Call them Taiwanren, and if you want to talk about ethnicity you could say Hokkien Taiwanese, Hakka Taiwanese, Shanghai Taiwanese, Giangsu Taiwanese or whatever (if you had to).
They refuse to use it, because they want to use a politically loaded term themselves. Doesn’t mean they’re right.
Undoubtedly incorrect. ‘In’ should always be used with an island of any size (regardless of whether or not it is a country). Eg, these are all wrong ‘on the North Island’ (of NZ), ‘on Tasmania’ ‘on Ireland’ ‘on Hawaii’ etc etc.
‘Reunification’ is a good one I forgot about. That’s so obviously loaded.
Nitpicking, I know, but people live in a country or on an island, with country taking precedence over island, e.g. “I want to buy a holiday house, either on Skye or in Ireland,” or “I live in Taiwan and I’m going to spend my holidays on Green Island.”
As Taiwan is a country, you should say in not on Taiwan.