So daisy, when you mentioned mainlanders before you were talking about the spouses of local men? Not so terribly impressive then. Lots of westerners are helping too.[/quote]
MM, why do you care if they are really mainlanders from China landing freshly here or if they have been lkiving here for all their lives? Why is that so important anyway ? At least they are doing more than a lot DPP, KMT or other politicians and celebrities around who appear on TV just to criticize and pass the blame.
I didn’t really pry so much on their background, I know they are mainlanders because some taiwanese were pointing this out, if they have been living here for long or just arrived, this is something I don’t know but I appreciate that they are doing quite a lot here and helping without getting anyback back from that. They really have my deepest respects, mainlanders or not so mainlanders.[/quote]
Excuse me? You made several very loaded political statements and suggested that mainlanders were coming over to help. They aren’t. Some who have immigrated are helping. That’s great but it is very different from your original scenerio where mainlanders are crossing the pond to help despite some, such as Chen Yunlin’s envoy, being abused by Taiwanese.
Don’t make contentious remarks if you don’t want to be called on them for at least clarification.
MM, why do you care if they are really mainlanders from China landing freshly here or if they have been lkiving here for all their lives? Why is that so important anyway ? At least they are doing more than a lot DPP, KMT or other politicians and celebrities around who appear on TV just to criticize and pass the blame.
I didn’t really pry so much on their background, I know they are mainlanders because some taiwanese were pointing this out, if they have been living here for long or just arrived, this is something I don’t know but I appreciate that they are doing quite a lot here and helping without getting anyback back from that. They really have my deepest respects, mainlanders or not so mainlanders.[/quote]
Excuse me? You made several very loaded political statements and suggested that mainlanders were coming over to help. They aren’t. Some who have immigrated are helping. That’s great but it is very different from your original scenerio where mainlanders are crossing the pond to help despite some, such as Chen Yunlin’s envoy, being abused by Taiwanese.
Don’t make contentious remarks if you don’t want to be called on them for at least clarification.[/quote]
I thought it was pretty clear that Daisy meant mainlanders living here. What “very loaded political statements” or “contentious remarks”?
It’d be interesting to see the parallel universe Forumosa thread where the government did somehow come up with an eleventh hour improvised evacuation system and infrastructure and somehow evacuated every last threatened village… The green cheerleader squad’s trite condemnation of how the evil KMT displaced 80% of these poor villagers uneccessarily putting them in harm’s way on dangerous mountain roads during a typhoon and callously dumped the rest in shoddy makeshift refugee camps unable to return to their ancestral lands… etc etc…
Did the KMT cock up royally in handling Morakot?.. Of course they did, they are a political party in Taiwan, they were short sighted, inefficient, negligent, incompetent, unqualified, slow to react and had no master plan in place for this eventuality… Would the mishandling of the emergency (not the follow up photo ops) have been significantly better under the DPP or anyone else?.. Pondering that question even for second means it’s time to step away from the koolaid…
It wasn’t clear at all, and rather than make any assumptions I asked for clarification the first time.
Here’s what she wrote:
This sounds, well, no, states that people have come from China to help. They didn’t. They came here to get married. And since at the moment it is not possible for mainland Chinese reisidents to come to taiwan except on a tourist or student visa daisy’s claim piqued my curiosity. How is this happening? I asked for clarification. I didn’t get it which is why I repeated the question. Nothing mean about my intentions. I simply want to know if Chinese have suddenly been allowed to enter Taiwan for humanitarian reasons.
The local media are making a big fuss about CNN’s calling MYJ “this man” rather than the president. I don’t get it. What’s derogatory with this reference? “This man” is just a neutral term, no? Does one become a diety after s/he becomes a president? Did anyone see the actual CNN story?
I have heard people be referred to as “that man” or “this man” in a disrespectful way. My mother seems to do it quite often, guess it is the way it is stressed when spoken. I am not sure, but the way my mother says it, it is very disrespectful.
I don’t think MM was particularly upset, I think he rightly called someone else out on a comment that was at best vague and at worse deliberately misleading. My initial impression was that Chinese people were coming over the Strait, not just HongKongers, the same as MM.
If anyone has been particularly upset it seems that would be you over MM’s comments.
Is it me, or do some people on this forum play a game in defending the KMT by suggesting that everyone’s as bad as them? [/quote]
I don’t think anyone is “playing a game” on this forum (the ones that do get caught by MOD). When it comes to defending the KMT by saying that most (if not all) other established ruling political parties in the world would screw this up as well, [I still haven’t seen anybody say that the gov (or in this case KMT) is doing a good job because they are not,] but before we bury them for being incompetent lets step back for a while and see how others would have handled the situation, and realize that it might have been a bit better but probably not that much.
Do someone deserve getting punished, YES, but as this is a political question it will take a long time before the blame is sorted out and “the right” person/people have been thrown in jail (or a least punished), a year or two will probably have passed and people are not as blood thirsty anymore (excluding people personally effected by this disaster), so the punishments will not be hard enough. I do not think that anybody should be lined up against the wall, but there should be more then a politician or two is asked to “voluntarily resign from their post”.
Before someone says better late then never, this is outrages, why have they waited two weeks, this should have been done three days after (or even earlier).
As much as I like dumping on the KMT and the DPP, I’d say it comes down to one thing both parties don’t have as do most organizations, Management talent. Both organizations are like a business with a name, i.e. McDonald’s, that franchises out it’s name to various groups through Taiwan in exchange for cash and votes. Both parties suffer from severe management deficits.
While I like to believe that this could be a wake up call to do something right. I’m not that foolish or naive anymore.
What I can’t understand is the media and some people blaming the politicians for having a haircut, father’s day dinner or whatever on the typhoon day. They didn’t know how bad this thing was going, no one knew until seeing the thing on the news. Even I, here in the south, I was resting and doing some happy junk food binge.
Tragedy was happening down the south, in remote areas and the forecast originally mentioned that the northern was going to be more affected. The last big and deadly typhoon was 50 years ago, no one knew this one would be that bad.
I don’t remember people blaming the then president of the USA or politicians for 9-11 deaths and destructions or Katrina floods and questioning them about their whereabouts and pressing them to step down.
I think the point at which it was obvious that this was going to be a disaster was when the collected rainfall had already hit 1,000mm in several areas. Remember that the 8/7 floods 50 years ago were the result of a total rainfall of that amount. I think it’s reasonable to expect that once that amount has already fallen, there is going to be flooding. The fact that that amount had already fallen, more was still falling, and the radar images showed much more still on the way, is a clear sign that a true disaster is already occuring. That those in charge did not already have a disaster management process underway at that time is negligent. That they waited until the rain had stopped before starting that process is criminal.
This idea of blaming the CWB for a poor forecast is nonsense. JWA and NOAA had much larger, and as it turns out, far more accurate rainfall predictions. What kind of fool only looks at one data source, when Japan and the USA have much more sophisticated and much better funded weather bureaus, and the data is out there for everyone to see, free of charge?
I think the point at which it was obvious that this was going to be a disaster was when the collected rainfall had already hit 1,000mm in several areas. Remember that the 8/7 floods 50 years ago were the result of a total rainfall of that amount. I think it’s reasonable to expect that once that amount has already fallen, there is going to be flooding. The fact that that amount had already fallen, more was still falling, and the radar images showed much more still on the way, is a clear sign that a true disaster is already occuring. That those in charge did not already have a disaster management process underway at that time is negligent. That they waited until the rain had stopped before starting that process is criminal.
This idea of blaming the CWB for a poor forecast is nonsense. JWA and NOAA had much larger, and as it turns out, far more accurate rainfall predictions. What kind of fool only looks at one data source, when Japan and the USA have much more sophisticated and much better funded weather bureaus, and the data is out there for everyone to see, free of charge?[/quote]
Well, I don’t remember anyone in the thread Typhoon 2009 actually perceiving this to be a super typhoon or something big enough to cause catasthophes, we were even making some light commentaries about that. Go to movies, malls or stay home and relax, anyway, no one knew that was going to be so bad. And maybe the people who were affected didn’t believe that this one could cause so much destruction. Many even returned to the affected areas to celebrate Father’s day, no one could foresee that or prevent or evacuate. Most just didn’t know.
[quote=“daisyhotkiss”]
Well, I don’t remember anyone in the thread Typhoon 2009 actually perceiving this to be a super typhoon or something big enough to cause catasthophes, we were even making some light commentaries about that. Go to movies, malls or stay home and relax, anyway, no one knew that was going to be so bad. And maybe the people who were affected didn’t believe that this one could cause so much destruction. Many even returned to the affected areas to celebrate Father’s day, no one could foresee that or prevent or evacuate. Most just didn’t know.[/quote]
Well, at least then those in government were not wasting time here on Forumosa. Sorry, but anyone with knowledge of previous floods should have known by the evening of the 8th, or the morning of the 9th at latest that a disaster was in the making. I don’t expect Forumosans or average citizens to have that knowledge. I do expect those charged with disaster management to know these things. If those people had put those two facts together, how much rain had caused serious floods before, and how much had already fallen, then troops could have been mobilized earlier, foreign aid could have been asked for, and perhaps hundreds of lives saved.
[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“daisyhotkiss”]
Well, I don’t remember anyone in the thread Typhoon 2009 actually perceiving this to be a super typhoon or something big enough to cause catasthophes, we were even making some light commentaries about that. Go to movies, malls or stay home and relax, anyway, no one knew that was going to be so bad. And maybe the people who were affected didn’t believe that this one could cause so much destruction. Many even returned to the affected areas to celebrate Father’s day, no one could foresee that or prevent or evacuate. Most just didn’t know.[/quote]
Well, at least then those in government were not wasting time here on Forumosa. Sorry, but anyone with knowledge of previous floods should have known by the evening of the 8th, or the morning of the 9th at latest that a disaster was in the making. I don’t expect Forumosans or average citizens to have that knowledge. I do expect those charged with disaster management to know these things. If those people had put those two facts together, how much rain had caused serious floods before, and how much had already fallen, then troops could have been mobilized earlier, foreign aid could have been asked for, and perhaps hundreds of lives saved.[/quote]
Any ideas why they were criticizing Ma for attending a wedding on the 7th, before the typhoon even got here?
Well leaving the criticism aside, yesterday was wonderful. Came some gorgeous helicopter pilots from the States and I got to meet someone named Ian, he helped a lot carrying the flours and babysitting a little girl. I am going to fly today with him to one of the affected areas later.
Hoklo tolerance for ya!!! 
