What makes you think that you would have anything to contribute in an emergency? No military training, no idea of how to work with trained soldiers… You’d be a liability. Better to get some basics down first.
Well put. 
If every man in Taiwan were as whimsical about the depth and duration of his duty and responsibility, we’d be in deep trouble. 
Yes…there’s a saying “Talk’s cheap, whiskey costs money.”
No doubt that’s what the British thought on April 1, 1982 (Invasion of the Falkland Islands). And of course, the Kuwaitis were thinking the same thing when they went to bed August 1, 1990 (Gulf War I).
How? You have no training.
True…just rely on the Americans.
They don’t have 2 passports.
[quote=“f_hou”]If I am not mistaken, his is a translation of the popular quote (in Chinese) "
[quote=“f_hou”]
If I am not mistaken, his is a translation of the popular quote (in Chinese) "
[quote=“jasonlin”]A story in
[quote=“scchu”][quote=“jasonlin”]A story in
Woah, Lin… you swang too far out. Swing back a bit. I don’t want this thread to be filled with too much negativity. Just exchanges of ideas and information. I honestly don’t think that’s what he really meant though. Still waiting for Blue to say something. 
scchu
[quote=“scchu”]Woah, Lin… you swang too far out. Swing back a bit. I don’t want this thread to be filled with too much negativity. Just exchanges of ideas and information. I honestly don’t think that’s what he really meant though. Still waiting for Blue to say something.
scchu[/quote]
ok i deleted some crap is that still too far?
[quote=“jasonlin”]
Blueface is suggesting that ABC and foreigners like him should be able to profit from Taiwan, but do not need to contribute to Taiwan’s defense because, according to Chinese history, they (meaning people who can get out of military service) are the superior class.[/quote]
I did not say that. I was using the Mencius quote to demonstrate that Chinese Culture has never considered the military as an honorable profession.
Take alook at the US for example…how many ABC’s have served in the US Army? Virtually none. While I was in the Army I met Russians, Japanese, Germans, Canadians, Salvadorans and Koreans. Never a Chinese.
Before you say anything else, I suggest you investigate the problems Singapore* has had with it’s military…you’ll see the same complaints as those in here Taiwan.
Personally, I think dual-nationality is a scam and Taiwan should have an all volunteer professional military. If the people here don’t want to volunteer to protect their country, well screw’em. They deserve whatever happens. I certainly don’t consider shirkers “a superior class”.
And BTW, about “profit from Taiwan”…you’re profiting from the US right now. Are you going to volunteer to going the US Marines? Right. I didn’t think so. 
[b]*"When National Service was introduced, Singaporeans had to be convinced of its necessity. The people have never considered national defence as their duty, since the British were responsible for it. Moreover, among the Chinese, which formed the majority of Singapore
[quote=“f_hou”][quote=“aceman”]This thread has gotten a bit confusing, I can’t keep track of who is arguing what, so let me just make my point.
There’s a BIG difference between being loyal to your country and serving in the military. In many instances these 2 ideas do indeed overlap, most of the time they do not and don’t have to.
Yes, I am a dual citizen doing the 4 month military dodging scheme. But I am doing this NOT because I want to betray Taiwan or something, but because I think the military system is completely outdated and not practical. Experts say that Taiwan only needs a military of 200,000 to defend itself adequately. If you look at Taiwan’s size and geography that makes sense. Also, if you analyse the political and economic situation across the Taiwan Strait, war with China in not very likely in the near future.
But Taiwan right now has a military of over 400,000 and a reserve force of over 1 million. Now that’s way too many soldiers. This excessive military manpower system is left over by the CKS regime, because they thought that one day they would retake the mainland with a huge land army. In fact many young men (who don’t get into college) have to stay at home for half to 1 year just waiting for their turn to serve. during that time they can’t really do anything and its a complete waste of time. I believe that 2 years of service is way too long…a more productive way would be maybe 3-6 month service, plus a system of volunteer professional soldiers who get get paid a salary. The gov’t agrees with this and is pushing a system like that in the near future.
If Taiwan gets attacked, I will fight to defend it. But why waste my time in the military when there’s no immediate threat to the country? you can’t really say that I am not being loyal…what’s the difference between me and millions of young Americans? I don’t see them rushing to fight Iraq or Afghanistan. Does this mean that they do not love the US, I don’t think so. They could very well be loyal to the US just like I am loyal to Taiwan. But this is 2003 folks, not 1950’s. If you really think joining the army and fighting wars can solve problems then you gotta be nuts.[/quote]
Well you might as well evade taxation, too, if you don’t happen to find the tax rules to your liking for something in mode and practical. As for whether you will be loyal to Taiwan and stay to fight for it when there is an invasion, I wouldn’t count on it.[/quote]
Uh, just what does taxes have to do with joining the army?? What, now you are assuming that I evade taxes? What’s next ? I break laws? I am a murderer? Where do you get this stuff? Taxes are a part of the law, and paying taxes are just like paying for anything you buy. I am not breaking any laws. The law does not require dual citizens to go to the military, just like it does not require pure foreigners to go to the military. You have no right to judge me unless you think all foreigners in taiwan should join the army too.
huggie,
I read your post on ABC’s (it was really LONG!) and I can understand where you’re coming from. But for me i am CBC and I can actually relate more to my canadian way of living than what i have here in Taiwan. I’ve only been here for 2 months and i find it terribly lonely and fustrating. My main purpose for this adventure is to learn chinese and find my roots. I always wondered if i was alone in this situation. A foreigner in Canada and even more so in China. Where exactly do i belong? I thought i would find my home and a sigh of relief when i arrived … but instead i found more isolation. For a girl who loves to be with people and friends … this was a real turn for the worst. I always thought friendship was beyond words. One could get by with patiences and a warm heart but i guess thats not true anymore. People here are so busy and in a hurry that if you talk a little slower they run away!
What to do?
Rose
roseha@hotmail.com
What makes you think that you would have anything to contribute in an emergency? No military training, no idea of how to work with trained soldiers… You’d be a liability. Better to get some basics down first.
Well put. If every man in Taiwan were as whimsical about the depth and duration of his duty and responsibility, we’d be in deep trouble. :|[/quote]
Apparently you didn’t read the part in my post about the 3-6 month service. Or the part about a professional volunteer military similar to most developed countries in the world. Yes, I’m sure millions of people will lose sleep over a shortened military service. In fact, no one in Taiwan has slept ever since they reduced the service from 3 to 2 years a while ago.
You mean from 2 years to 18 months?
Yes…there’s a saying “Talk’s cheap, whiskey costs money.” [/quote]
You have no right to judge me, until you have fulfilled the Taiwanese military service. Also why don’t you make all foreigners in Taiwan go to the military. Why not? They live here don’t they? How about all the Chinese-Americans in the US and elsewhere? Why don’t you force them all to go to Taiwan or China and join their armies? They have chinese heritage don’t they?
No doubt that’s what the British thought on April 1, 1982 (Invasion of the Falkland Islands). And of course, the Kuwaitis were thinking the same thing when they went to bed August 1, 1990 (Gulf War I). [/quote]
Ah, yes, and the British have a 2-year required military service for all male citizens including dual citizens? If they do I have never heard of it. Show me some proof.
How? You have no training.[/quote]
Please read my post, carefully, before any rebuttal, thank you.
True…just rely on the Americans.[/quote]
Yes, and I’m sure Americans have nothing to gain from defending Taiwan.
They don’t have 2 passports.[/quote]
That’s true, but makes absolutely no sense. Why does it matter to Americans (regarding the military) whether they have 2 passports or not? Either way they do not have to join the army unless they want to.
I’m saying that I am similar to millions of Americans in that we can be patriotic to our respective countries without having to join the military. Can you grasp this idea?
I’m actually referring to many years ago when they reduced the service from approx. 3 years I believe, to approx 2 year. But you are right of course, 2 years to 18 months recently. In fact they are supposed to shorten it even more in the future. Nowadays there are also alternatives to the military service. You can work under contract in tech companies, go help out in a variety of different departments. Because there’s just too many eligible soldiers and they can be used in a more efffective manner doin something else.
Rose H:
I totally understand where you are coming from. I am not here to learn about my root or to learn the languages, but since I left TW when I was young, I don’t have a lot of friends here as well. That is why I am here looking for some friends. Yes, the ppl here are too busy for us. On top of that, they have already established a social group, and are not looking…etc. But don’t worry, I am here for ya!
MiakaW
[quote=“aceman”]
You have no right to judge me, until you have fulfilled the Taiwanese military service. Also why don’t you make all foreigners in Taiwan go to the military. Why not? They live here don’t they?[/quote]
I have served my country in the US Army. You have done nothing.
A Chinese-American is an American citizen and has to abide by American laws. If he also has a Taiwan passport, then if he’s in Taiwan he should abide by Taiwan laws. A foreigner is a foreign citizen. Someone who has ONE passport, professes loyalty to that country and is NOT trying to wiggle some kind of advantage out of his ethnicity. That’s not too hard to understand, isn’t?
I did, you said “Yes, I am a dual citizen doing the 4 month military dodging scheme.” Seems pretty clear to me.
If people claiming to be Taiwanese don’t see it’s worth defending, why should Americans???
[quote=“blueface666”][quote=“aceman”]
You have no right to judge me, until you have fulfilled the Taiwanese military service. Also why don’t you make all foreigners in Taiwan go to the military. Why not? They live here don’t they?[/quote]
I have served my country in the US Army. You have done nothing.
A Chinese-American is an American citizen and has to abide by American laws. If he also has a Taiwan passport, then if he’s in Taiwan he should abide by Taiwan laws. A foreigner is a foreign citizen. Someone who has ONE passport, professes loyalty to that country and is NOT trying to wiggle some kind of advantage out of his ethnicity. That’s not too hard to understand, isn’t? [/quote]
Is that right? How come you’re not in Iraq or Afghanistan? Americans are fighting a war in the middle east I believe. Taiwan isn’t even fighting a war at this moment. I have done nothing? Har har. Well then billions of people around the globe have done nothing and I’m ok with that. So, according to you, how is a Chinese-American not “wiggling” some advantage out of his ethnicity? Are they not chinese ethnically? They call themselves Chinese and Taiwanese, just like me. They also visit Taiwan/China frequently. How are they not “wiggling” out of their military requirements by immigration? Also, how am I different from foreigners? They have a foreign passport. I have a foreign passport. They live here, I live here. They go on “visa-runs”. I go on similar runs. They are here legally, so am I. They do not have to go to the Taiwanese military, neither do I. If you do not understand Taiwanese immigration laws, please review such material before accusing me.
I did, you said “Yes, I am a dual citizen doing the 4 month military dodging scheme.” Seems pretty clear to me. [/quote]
Please, do not post random phrases from my post that distorts the whole meaning. You were talking about military training. I proposed shortened 3-6 months training service and/or professional military in my post.
If people claiming to be Taiwanese don’t see it’s worth defending, why should Americans???[/quote]
Did I say Taiwan is not worth defending? Where’s the quote on that one?
Obviously you know nothing about American foreign policy. The U.S. would not attack/defend anyone unless it can benefit themselves somehow.
“Yes, I am a dual citizen doing the 4 month military dodging scheme.”
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle! 
BTW, my daughter is serving with the 82d Airborne Division in Iraq. I’ll bet that makes you feel like a real man. Any more comments?
I think what some of the people in this thread object to is ABC’s getting the privilege of an ROC passport without having to pay the price of military service, whereas most ROC passport holders, at least the men, have to serve, and most foreigners don’t have ROC passports. Best of both worlds, so to speak. Fair is fair; if you want the passport, you should have to pay the same price as everyone else, no matter what color your skin is.