Pope Francis closes the door on the death penalty


I wonder how American conservatives will react. There aren’t many countries left that still carry them out.

Hey! Maybe Ms Barrett will be useful and end Capital Punishment in the United States!

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Seems like she’s already given herself an out. Here’s an article she wrote over 20 years ago.


The Catholic Church’s opposition to the death penalty places Catholic judges in a moral and legal bind. While these judges are obliged by oath, professional commitment, and the demands of citizenship to enforce the death penalty, they are also obliged to adhere to their church’s teaching on moral matters. Although the legal system has a solution for this dilemma by allowing the recusal of judges whose convictions keep them from doing their job, Catholic judges will want to sit whenever possible without acting immorally. However, litigants and the general public are entitled to impartial justice, which may be something a judge who is heedful of ecclesiastical pronouncements cannot dispense. Therefore, the authors argue, we need to know whether judges are legally disqualified from hearing cases that their consciences would let them decide. While mere identification of a judge as Catholic is not sufficient reason for recusal under federal law, the authors suggest that the moral impossibility of enforcing capital punishment in such cases as sentencing, enforcing jury recommendations, and affirming are in fact reasons for not participating.

I bet he won’t say anything to China, they likely carry out out the most executions in the world by most estimates since they don’t release that information.

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I hope he does. But I also think if they don’t keep televising executions on local TV, the CCP might lose their grip on power.
This Pope was supposed to change things, and it’s really disappointing how he’s making a deal with China.


It’s really disappointing. I’m not a catholic, but their persecution of all religions is just disgusting. Especially with organ harvesting and now ethnic cleansing of Uighurs. Idk what the pope is thinking, they also treat Christians the same and tore down churches and change scripture the CCP doesn’t like.


It’s interesting because gallop polls also suggest liberals and moderates to support the death penalty by majority in the US. Although conservatives much more.

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But this was taken in the 2000s. Opinions on the death penalty swings by a lot. It was as low as 40% in favor of and as high as 80% for all Americans.

I personally do believe some people deserves the death penalty but I don’t trust the system to be right 100% of the time so I’m against it being carried out by the state.

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Wow, I’m surprised it’s that high. I guess it’s part of the American culture perhaps. I thought most states had stopped executions and the ones that still do them can’t get the drugs for lethal injection. I heard a few stories about this recently

I heard about that as well. But I’m not sure if it’s still the case.

I’m unsure why tbh. I never fully got this myself. I also think its rather strange and perhaps hypocritical for Christians to support the death penalty. After all, Jesus was executed. And most states carry out the death penalty based on the idea that a person is irredeemable and unable to change, which is an idea that is quite contradictory to scripture.

Perhaps the greatest Christian apologist was Paul, who once was Saul, a man who hunted down and killed Christians. The idea that such a man can be redeemed is part of the beauty of Christianity for many people, myself included.

I would like to see that, but judges aren’t supposed to make judgments based on personal moral convictions, just on what is Constitutional. It’s extremely hard to take the position that the death penalty is unconstitutional and still honestly interpret the Constitution. The public is moving on the death penalty, though, it will be phased out. Currently 20 states don’t allow the death penalty, and another 10 haven’t used it in over a decade.


Personally I don’t agree with it and feel most that are in support don’t really understand all the facts. It really is cheaper to give someone life in prison as you avoid the appeals.
Imo Some government policy shouldn’t be decided by popular opinion, tyranny of the majority as they say.
I think it’s similar to the LGBTQ issue in Taiwan. No reason to put that to a referendum.
Anyways. Not to get too off topic

Exactly. It’s funny, this came up recently when Pope Francis was condemning counties for pollution. The Republicans were like, yeah, he’s the Pope, but we don’t always need to listen to him. Haha. He is the head of the Church, but whatever.
Pretty contradictory

Funny how the original post was about Pope Francis and the Vatican and first comment in, it becomes a discussion about America. :joy:


The fact that we’ve wrongly executed so many people in the US alone is enough for me to oppose it with a system made up of fallible humans.

Taiwan also wrongly executed a man for rape, I remember President Ma acquitted the man and apologized to the family. Not that it does much good.

Idk how anyone can be for it when they see how many times we get it wrong.


Yesterday a family in Sacramento was shot at and a woman is in critical condition her son is slightly injured but her 9 year old daughter is shot dead. At a park

And somewhere in Maryland a lone gunman demanded money from a 711 clerk and got the money but still shot the woman clerk dead

There are too many criminals like this we shouldn’t need to house them for decades

Once it is clear they are guilty they should be put to death

A life sentence is in many ways more cruel

But there must be complete proof of guilt

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That’s why it’s a better sentence. Death is the easy way out for criminals.

It is probably better to die than spend a whole life in prison reading War and Peace :wink:

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What do you mean by clear? What % certainty would you settle for before you used the death penalty?


That’s already the standard for convicted someone of criminal charges, beyond a reasonable doubt. It continues to fail and in most cases, we try our best to reverse it to make it right. You can’t do that when you execute someone.

He’s also taking a courageous stand against globalism, if you define a courageous stand as kicking it now that it’s down.