Precedent in Italian-Taiwanese child case

Basically, vacation time with father mandated, and both parents enforced to play nice or else.

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Good. Japan, take note.

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Sounds good
Does the child have any feelings about this ?
It’s good she gets to see both parents
Trouble comes if the Italian parent decides not to give the kid back ?
As has happened before
This case is very sticky as such cases are likely to be

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Taipei, Dec. 2 (CNA) The Taipei District Court has ruled that a child at the center of a custody battle between an Italian businessman and a Taiwanese woman should spend part of her school vacations in Italy with her father.

In a verdict issued Friday, the court said that in order to strengthen the child’s “direct and personal relations with her father and (paternal) relatives,” she should spend 10 and 30 days, respectively, of her winter and summer vacations living with him in Italy.

The legal battle started in 2017, when the father took the girl – who at the time lived with her mother, surnamed Chan (詹), in Taiwan – to Italy to visit his family, where she remained against the will of the mother.

Chan later flew to Italy and brought her daughter back, which the father described as an abduction. He subsequently came to Taiwan to fight for legal custody of the child.

The daughter was born in 2014, but the parents were never married.

In January this year, Taipei District Court ruled that the father had sole parental rights and ordered Chan to return the child to her father by March 14.

Chan lodged an appeal in February, but the Supreme Court upheld the lower court’s decision that the mother must hand over the girl by the deadline.

The case garnered media attention after the girl wrote a widely publicized letter to President Tsai Ing-wen (蔡英文), in which she said she wished to stay in Taiwan.

After the child refused to be taken by officers of the court from her school on March 14, Chan appealed to the Constitutional Court later that same month, requesting a stay of execution, which was granted.

After hearing the case, the Constitutional Court found in May that the Supreme Court’s ruling had violated the Constitution’s intent to protect the personal rights and dignity of minor children. It returned the case to the Supreme Court, which in October invalidated its initial ruling and sent the case back to the Taipei District Court.

In its ruling on Friday, the Taipei District Court acknowledged that the girl had not expressed a desire to spend vacations with her father in her testimony.

However, based on the child’s “contradictory” statements – such as that she missed her father but did not want to see him – the court concluded that she was “facing a loyalty dilemma” in the conflict between her parents and that her words “did not necessarily reflect her actual feelings.”

The court also admonished the parents, saying their “mutual mistrust” had caused the child to “lose out on the linguistic and cultural advantages of dual citizenship” and subjected her to emotionally traumatic experiences.

The intent of the verdict is to “rebuild a cooperative co-parenting relationship” and restore to the child the benefits of dual citizenship, the court said, adding that it had referred the parents and girl to counseling services to help facilitate this process.

The court warned that failure to adhere to the verdict or return the child to the other parent on time could be considered improper parental conduct – a designation that could potentially affect the current custody arrangements.

(By Lin Chang-shun, Ko Lin and Matthew Mazzetta)

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While this is a good first step, I bet it will be punted back up the chain again only for the courts ruling to get invalidated yet again.

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This is the issue: the child’s interests should be priority. But she is caught between two different worlds. And two warring states.

Typically, the Taiwanese parents have been “protected” when they take away the kids and prevent the foreign parent from even seeing or talking to the kid. Foreign parents are subject to stricter laws on this regard, both on Taiwan and their own countries. We have several Taiwanese parent fugitives here which have remained at large. And the kids whereabouts unknown.

At least in this case the law is aware of the situation, has mediated and most importantly, the kid is not “missing”, meaning unable to be located. Baby steps. Hopefully the grown ups can act as such. If a preliminary arrangement like living with the mother and spending summers with Dad can be worked out without making it a guilt trip or a legal mess, it’ll be ideal. The kid could have double passport, lots of options for education, a wider range of experience and languages. If the adults can be less selfish. If. And that goes beyond being a Taiwanese/foreigner issue, but something that applies to most family situations.

Personally I cannot be impartial as I have seen way too many cases. Currently a good friend is being exploited by Taiwanese spouse, who has lived off her work since they set foot on the island and after booting her out, holds kids for ransom for more money. He also has managed to brainwash and railroad the kids into doing his will and I fear for the end of that story.

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Yeah, even when the Taiwan mother is a high priced Manhattan hooker, Interpol is after her for kidnapping, and the father is old Park Avenue NY money, DPP administrations were still willing to risk US-Taiwan relations. Gotta love A-bian in those times :laughing: :laughing:

Those of us that are pro-Taiwan in international circles shake our heads when such what-should-be-normal international cooperation in law enforcement is ignored for nativism.

I did a bit of sleuthing in the second link back in the day as the legendary Chewycorns (worth reading the whole thread) which had some pretty detailed reviews of her smorgasbord of lewd services on offer.
Child Born Out of Wedlock U.S - Taiwan / Parenting - Forumosa
NEWS STORY: Taiwanese/US Custody Battle - Discussion / Open Forum - Forumosa

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A mother is a mother be she a hooker or a librarian and the father be old mucho money

Perhaps the father intended to shut the mother out of the picture using his old boy network fed by the same mucho money

If that was the case and I’m not saying it is or not as I do not know the whole picture it stands to reason her running back to Taiwan with her child

I would have done the same

No shame in what one does to survive even if that means prostitution. It’s not murder

Men do it without being paid and somehow we are more morally correct ? Because we pay and don’t get paid?

That’s fucked up

You want to judge her but you don’t know the whole story

I would not

Who’s to say daddy’s big money will always be better than a whore mothers love ?

So I know this friend of yours ?

She broke the law, ignored the US ruling, and ignored Interpol
That’s not even talking about her job :laughing:

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I’d a done the same if my partner intended to shut me out of my kids life and I’m a dude I didn’t carry the baby for 9 months

It’s not about you though. It is about the best environment for the kid. A fugitive with poor judgement?

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You’re commenting on shit that you know nothing about…again. Leave it alone or do your homework first.

Try reading all I wrote
I wrote I do not have the whole picture and I was just theorizing to make a point
:smiley_cat:

If I was her lawyer I might or still might not know more

Nobody has the real picture cept for the parties involved is my point

The rest is theory just for arguments sake

Memory fades was this some kind of womb for hire ?
We just discussing theories here unless anyone knows the truth and nothing but the truth outside of what is printed ?

I for one know nothing of the truth in part or in whole but am theorizing and pontificating on my theory

Thank you for indulging

What is fact though is that parents fighting over children are a tragedy. Some much worse than others

We have many cases here of an ex spouse actually killing their kids over custody

It’s a tragedy no one is sure how to handle to prevent

Several cases in the news here recently

One man killed his ex and children and himself
Others themselves and kids

All these are tragic

It’s good to see one Taiwan court at least trying to do the right thing for this young girl and her mother and foreign father

Seeming to point out as well the benefits to the child of dual nationality and her Italian side of the family should not be ignored

Sounds like a good step to me

Of course now in reality more courts may make more rulings under appeal and I would think the mother will be fearful her daughter will not be returned to her once again as that has already happened

It’s a right mess but it’s good this court seems to be taking the high road and wanting all parties to work together for the good of all and the child most of all

Tommy’s one penny

Allow me purely for arguments sake. In my view smart people with great judgement make mistakes and dumb as a rock people with poor judgement are still capable of making a good call

The odds may be against her

But

Say you are a woman of poor repute with a child her powerful father wanted to keep you away from
What will you do?

If me ? If I was a woman living life hard but a mother of a child who’s father can provide for her well monetarily but I must surrender any further contact from

I would and that’s just me , take MY child and run

Not saying this was de facto the case but if it was

You may make your decision but others may make theirs

Who’s to say who’s right? 20 / 30 years later

The law of probability may favor the mother giving up her child to a wealthy father who can much better provide for the daughter

But who is to say her life will be more rewarding ?

Money while it’s a great thing even everything for those who only desire it but do not actually possess it does not in fact guarantee happiness

Not should the dollar figure be all you judge your life against

If you do you have lived a poor life even if you be rich

(Note : Tommy doesn’t have it and is chasing it too just like most sons a ….and maybe being fcukkng rich is fcuking awesome and ALL we should strive for and measure ourselves and others against …….but little voice tells me no it’s not )

Fair point and taken

However Carlos Goshn may take issue with breaking laws and being wanted by Interpol as a sign of wrong doing in his escape from Japanese law and assignment to Interpol

No, she’s a more recent arrival. And you’re a married man now, so no introductions!

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Guys, you know some parents on the lam hide the kid. The kid is not at peace: can’t make friends, has to hate a parent on behalf of the other and ends up hating themselves, lots of issues. When two adults reach The War of the Roses levels with the kids instead if the house being torn apart, Interpol or other legal issues pale in comparison…but are a clear indicator of what is happening. A symptom of sorts.

If the parents can clear their legal hurdles that is a good symptom. If the law is skewed or manipulated, well, it is not.

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Lol no
I’m more intd in the half bottle kavalan you may still have :red_car:

Bullshit. I’ve read the entire case file from the US.

You need to stop theorizing and making up bullshit.

It’s really annoying.

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