President Chen Shuibian shot! - Part 2

Who Shot Chen Shui Bian and Annette Lu?

  • KMT Agent
  • PRC Spy
  • DPP Fanatic
  • General Lunatic
  • Drunk CIA Sniper
  • Estranged Lover
  • Unemployed Professional English Teacher
  • A Forumosian

0 voters

Please continue. :notworthy: :bow:

The Chinese KMT/PFP is trying desperately to deflect any suspicion away from them.

Mayor Ma just said that the joint KMT/PFP election headquarters is offering a NT$10 million reward for information on the culprit.

It is now over 12 hours since the assassination attempt and major details are coming out maddeningly slowly. Is this typical paternal Chinese style or is something serious being withheld?

Scooter wrote:

Now that is first rate conspiracy theory.

The bullet apparently did not puncture the abdomen so after 14 stitches it is perfectly feasible to address the nation in order to restore calm.

According to reports it was impossible to hear any shots fired due to the exposion of firecrackers. If you saw the video you see that Chen and Lu remain absolutely calm, thus not raising the alarm of the secret service. Lu is casually mentioning it to her bodyguard and Chen maintains appeal to the people without acknowledging it.

It didn’t. the stock market was still open and suffered a brief drop.

My final thoughts after a long day…

What a nauseating spectacle watching Sisy Chen call a press conference [in other words, PROACTIVELY SPREAD] the conspiracy theories: “Someone” says Secret Service agents scouted out the hospital in advance; “Someone” claims A-Bian’s medical records have been tampered with, “Someone” says the bullet casings don’t match the bullet, blah blah blah.

I’m glad not ONE Green camp politician has openly alleged that it was a KMT plot – if they’re thinking it at least they have the decency to do so in private. In contrast various KMTers are shamelessly vying for media time to promote the idea that the DPP staged the entire event to gain votes. Even Lien had the nerve to not so subtly hint of a coverup by demanding that the government “reveal the whole truth by [Friday] evening.” Um… there’s something called an “ongoing investigation” that may take more than 6 hours. Too bad he wasn’t around when Mrs. A-Bian was run over by a truck to clamor for immediate full disclosure. And if Lien was around in 1963 we could’ve all found out who shot JFK in 6 hours too.

I personally could not stay in a country where I seriously believed the government would do as deranged and despicable a thing as staging a fake assassination of its own leaders. Hell, might as well move to Zimbabwe in that case. All this just goes to show how shallow democracy really is on this island.

Frankly, even more incomprehensible are the posters here that are swept up in these far-fetched theories. At least the locals have the excuse that they’re caught up in the emotions of the campaign and that they’re newbies to democracy. What’s an expat’s excuse: just plain idiocy?

I dont know what the hell is going on??? I dont understand chinese so all I can do is go off what my wife’s family states…

they state that he was not shot, that it was a firecracker, and if from what I saw on TV it didnt appear he was shot… especially in the leg, he would have dropped immediately… This guy is no tough guy, and if was he would still drop…

Also, they state he went over 5KM to a hospital when there was one were two private ones much closer, and they state one of his security guards is saying the hospital has been changing the records…

Also, they told me that right before the last elections, his wife got in a wreck so basically they all say this is conspiracy to get sympathy votes… Im not sure if it is true, but based on what I have seen from the government since I have been here I would not put it past them… Also, I have seen someone get shot in the leg by a 22 caliber rifle (accident) and trust me he dropped right a way… Not sure if you know anything about firearms, but if someone was attempting an assasination, they would be using a firearm with a much greater caliber, with bullets that shatter or mushroom on contact so there is noway this guy would still be standing, no possible way. and trust me if someone was close enough for the casings to be in the jeep… come on BS… no one, not even a child could screw that up

I personally believe there was no gun, probably hit by a firecracker…

Guess we will see tomorrow

Depends on what was used. You can make a handgun for the .45ACP cartridge(*) with a piece of water pipe, a pipe cap, a rubber band, and a nail.

(*) and other sizes too, of course, but the dimensions work out pretty easily for .45ACP and .22LR. Also 12ga shotshells.
The site appears to be down at the moment, but (if it ever comes back up) you can get plans for a lot of designs here:
Plans page for homemade guns

Taiwan is full of machine shops. Manufacturing a firearm is NOT rocket science. It’s barely even plumbing. If you want a weapon that will fire one shot without blowing up, doesn’t need to be quickly reloadable, and doesn’t need to be lightweight or made out of weird materials, you can make it in an afternoon. A real, rifled barrel is hard. Using a bottlenecked cartridge means you need a special reamer (might take a day or two to make). But any of the parts could be smuggled in without much difficulty, judging from the lack of customs-inspection scrutiny I saw at CKS.

Get a few rounds of ammunition from a military range or maybe the night market (like that politician’s kid did last summer), and you’re all set.

uh…did you read the other posts from last night? chen wasn’t shot in the leg. if you’re watching the videos, and saw the blood stain on his stomach, and then were STILL looking for a shot to the leg, i don’t know what to say…

Shoulda stopped there. :smiley:

On June 9, 1990, Officer Stacey Lim of the LAPD was shot in the heart with a .357 Magnum during an attempted carjacking. She drew her own gun, shot her attacker to death, a neighbor called an ambulance, Lim got taken to the hospital, underwent open-heart surgery to repair her torn-open ventricle, and she survived. LAPD has training videos about her; I’m not sure if they’re generally available, although I saw one of them in a class a few years ago.

Meanwhile, some unfortunate sap of a cop got nicked in the arm with a .22LR back in the mid-1980’s, and he went into a screaming fit and died.

So, I would say that “it depends”. . . .

It was VP Lu who got hit in the knee. I suggest you read through the thread to learn what is already known, instead of relying on what is apparently a bunch of unreliable KMT ass-covering from your wife’s family.

[quote=“cw.jc”]I don’t know what the hell is going on??? I don’t understand Chinese so all I can do is go off what my wife’s family states…

case closed.

[quote=“cw.jc”]Moronity??? Never heard of that one before, and yes it might be a word who knows, but come on… If you are going to try to insult me come up with something better than that…

If you can read, you will see that I simply stated I am not sure what is going on, that I cannot understand the news, that I am only stating what I was told by my wife’s family… I even said not sure if it was true…

BUT I did say, You MORON, what I personally thought from the video I have had to watch over and over again tonight… From my exerience (I was raised with guns, have hunted my whole life) that a shot to a leg from a small caliber gun will drop a person to the ground, no question about it… And only a complete MORON could try to assasinate some one from that close of range and miss the target (and yes it was a miss if it was an assasination attempt) or use a bb gun…

So there go ahead and derive the moronity of that statement since you must insult someone you moron… (I believe that is the proper use)[/quote]
You’re just digging a deeper hole. You obviously haven’t even bothered to check the web for accurate reporting from CNN, Reuters, and other sources, yet you are ranting away with all of the conspiracy crap that you’ve been overhearing.

On top of that, while you may have been raised around guns, you obviously don’t know shit about gun-related injuries. Just because some friend of yours panicked and dropped after being hit in the leg(*), it doesn’t mean that everyone does that. Take a look at some of the Medal of Honor citations – Rodger Young’s, for but one example – to see what people can do even after multiple severe injuries.

Neither Chen’s nor Lu’s wounds were especially severe. They were definitely hit by a bullet (or two separate ones; at least one post says there were multiple shots, but I haven’t seen that in the news yet), but that doesn’t mean instant incapacitation and death like you seem to think.

(*) not to belittle your friend – perhaps his injury was serious, like a fractured pelvis. Then again, maybe he just got nicked, saw his blood, and panicked. I had to be transported after cutting my finger one time.

Geez, I think some people need to go to sleep… Grumpy grumpy grumpy…

And the TV channel we were watching all night kept pointing out his leg, not his stomach, the first pic I saw of the stomach was just now on an American website…

I also stated that I wasnt sure what was true, I thought he got shot in the leg, not the stomach, and no I havent been sitting here for hours reading through last nights posts, I just got home and wanted to see what was happening from an english source, not her KMT biased family which they are, but sorry I didnt spend hours reading through the multiple pages…

So why should have I stopped there??? I admitted from the beginning I wasnt sure what was going on, and yes it was an honest mistake thinking they were saying the leg, and yes if it was the leg he would have dropped… I was stating this based on the fact I thought it was the leg and he didnt drop… And I believe you about a the cop getting shot with a 357, just as I believe the freak instances where someone skydives and bounces off the ground and lives…

But either way I still wouldnt put anything past any one involved in politics here or anywhere else especially right before election day…


[quote=“Bassman”]According to experts, ha, experts (Taiwanese Experts LOL), the angle and type of shell found do not make sense. The whole thing was too easy and too convenient. There is debate on the distance required for the calibre of shell to do what it did. A moving vehicle, this is Taiwan, it wasn’t going that fast. Besides, anyone with training in marksmanship wouldn’t have #@$@ed the thing up with two shots, does anyone believe that you’d botch the job on the Pres. twice.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to hit a moving target, while in a crowd, under pressure, trying to stay concealed and uncaught, and with a handgun?

“Training in marksmanship” – you and Alien need to quit watching low-quality movies and drop by a pistol club some time. You seem to think that it’s trivial to nail a fly at 1000 yards (or a politician at 25), and it isn’t.

The bullet looks like it might be from a .32 (the photo I’ve seen is tiny and from a bad angle, so it’s hard to say, but it doesn’t look like it has the rebated tail of a .22LR, and most .25ACP that I’ve seen is copper jacketed – this one looks like it’s lead alloy, which is common in several .32’s). In any case, it’s small, which IMHO bumps up the likelihood that the would-be assassin was some lone wacko(s). I wouldn’t expect such a person to be any great shakes with a gun; they probably got their shooting education from the movies too, and probably regards guns as magical weapons that barely need to be aimed and will kill even if the bullet misses. They probably used BWS gunsights:

Edited: oops, just made it to the last page on the first thread, and found out there were two (or more) shooters. Well, crap, there went the lone wacko theory. :frowning: I’d guess low-level gangsters, now.

Christ, it’s depressing to read the kind of sickening bilge that two or three people have been posting on this thread overnight. :unamused:

Deplorably but not really surprisingly, it appears that pro-blue supporters are convinced to a man that the assassination attempt was mere political theatre, set up and enacted by the victims themselves or their own people. What can one say to that? It just serves to show how twisted these people’s minds are, while the foreigners who parrot them merely succeed in demonstrating their lack of even the most basic mental acumen or power of rational thinking.

Like Cranky and the other intelligent, decent, well-informed Forumosans who have posted here, I am disgusted almost beyond what words can express by the stupendously discreditable mouthings of Sisy Chen, Li Ao, and their ilk. It is hardly surprising that some benighted sap or saps who had sucked in a constant barrage of such poison, rising in shrillness with the countdown to the election, would be goaded into attempting to kill the figures demonised as so hateful. All of those verbal assassins bear only a shade less culpability than the dupes who actually pulled the triggers.

Saddest of all, it is becoming more and more evident that Taiwan is going to compound its shame and inter itself in a pit of international derision and contempt by voting Lien and Soong into the Presidential Office during the course of today. Let all of us who truly love Taiwan weep for its people and its future if that is what happens.

This reaction shows the moral bankruptcy of many in the Pan-Blue camp.

Sissy Chen, well, she is the deplorable monster that she always has been!

Moral bankrupcy? I would rather say adoctrination. One thing I noticed yesterday, in several different locations I went to, is that most of DPP people I encountered were willing to consider other possibiliies, not just conspiracy theories. On the other hand, all KMT supporters I met were adamant about this incident being what they call “a low publicity stunt”. As a foreigner here, and since we probably will never know who did it, all I can say is that I am sad, sad, that such a nice place to live may be marred by lack of freedom and sense. An election choice based on theatrics, accusations,fear and superstition is now compounded by this incident. We all lose this time, big time. DPP looks suspicious, KMT looks bad, PRC looks the other way until they get their chance. Sad, sad day.

Both Lien and Ma have called on voters not to allow themselves to be influenced by yesterday’s “accident” or “mishap”.

But I don’t think they have much to fear. Only a very tiny percentage of swing voters are likely to be influenced by it, and none of the pan-blues’ core constituency will be bothered or affected by it one jot.

As has been mentioned, if a miracle occurs and Chen-Lu somehow do manage to win the election, we can be sure to hear Lien complaining about being robbed of victory by the shooting and joining in the chorus of pan-blue allegations about it being staged.

Unfortunately, in spite of the thousand compelling reasons for the Taiwanese people to cast their votes AGAINST Lien and Soong (even if not FOR Chen and Lu), I just can’t see any grounds for believing that the unholy alliance might fail to garner the votes it needs to render this Taiwan’s blackest day since February 28, 1947.

Looking at the television footage … the motorcade was surrounded by LOTS of police riding motorcycles, and there were at least several other people in the jeep with CSB and Lu. Based on the wounds received, I believe we can safely say that either the “assailant” was a really bad shot, or wasn’t really trying to kill Chen. What gets me, though, is that none of those policemen who were in the way got hit, and no one else in the jeep got hit (even grazed). If you think about the JFK assassination, Connelly got hit, and even a bystander standing near an underpass got hit. The shot couldn’t have come from the front, because the street in front of the jeep was clear … if someone jumped out in the middle of the street, that would be very obvious. It also wasn’t from too far away since they’ve already concluded that it was a handgun. This was a very “clean” assassination attempt. I also agree with Bassman that it is odd that as soon as they “realized” that he had been hit, they didn’t move to cover him or the VP. So either the Taiwanese “secret service” is completely incompetent, or …

But, since it seems like many members of the foreign community who support the DPP are even more militant about their beliefs than even many of Chen’s most ardent supporters, anything other than saying it was a botched KMT assassination attempt would never be considered. :unamused:

Who did it? The press is speculating:

A “deranged individual” seemed the most likely suspect, said Steve Tsang, director of Asian Studies Center at St. Anthony’s College, Oxford University, adding that the China referendum might have heightened tensions and pushed an unsettled voter over the edge.

*But there were two or MORE individuals involved, so that theory goes out the window.

“Elections in Taiwan are always emotional and when the referendum issue was raised, it all became much more emotional and passionate,” Tsang said. “That could well have had the effect of turning one person to doing something very, very silly.”

*Nice try, professor. No way. Two or more assassins were involved.

Tsang said it was “inconceivable” the KMT or the Chinese commies could have been behind the attack.

*Why ‘‘inconceivable’’? Very conceivable!

Some TV commentators suggested Chen and Lu might have staged the shooting to win sympathy votes, but DPP official Su Chen-chang dismissed the conspiracy theories.

*It was definitely NOT NOT NOT staged.

They will catch the shooters soon, maybe tonight or Monday at the latest. Then we will know. But too late to redo the election, which will be heavily influenced by this “incident” now known in popular culture as The 319 Incident.

Well, it’s coming up on the 24 hour mark, so I’m sure Jack Bauer and the folks from CTU will crack the case soon.

I’m not pro-DPP or pro-independence, but I’d love to see CSB win now after seeing all this finger pointing and ass covering by these sore losing, bitchy little KMTers. Anybody with the slightest bit of class would have just kept their mouths shut and let the election go on as planned, but subhuman scum like Sissy Chen had to shoot away with their stupid “theories.” The kind of stuff that bitch said last night could whip people up into a riot.

JiveTurkey, you are so right. But you know, what Sissy Chen says mirrors what many KMT supporters feel. Almost everyone on the blue side I have talked to yesterday and today, believes what she says. They want to believe, need to believe. This is Taiwan. Belief systems have different watering systems than we are used to in the West, not that we aren’t weird too.

The nation today is deeply divided and it’s scary. Let’s hope civility endures and the loser loses tonight in a gentlemanly way, whoever is the loser. If this happens, the real winner is Taiwan.