I echo those sentiments.
Sisy Chen (I believe she spells her absurd name without the double s) is entirely bereft of intellectual and moral integrity. I assume she’s angling for a cabinet position or higher in the Lien-Soong government, and will say and do anything that she reckons might help her to land it. Ugh!
The press is speculating? How about almost the whole membership of Forumosa is sepculating. For hours yesterday no posts were made to any other thread but this (well… the original) one.
I didn’t know we had such politically aware, speculative, conspiracy theorists on this forum. You all are obsessed…
Here’s my take:
*The president and vice president were shot.
*They aren’t dead, and recovering nicely.
*Someone did it.
*We don’t know who and questions abound about the whole affair
*We probably won’t ever know who did or answer all the questions.
*This may or may not effect the election.
*We probably won’t know how, at least until it is over.
*Even then, since there is no way to see into an alternate reality where it didn’t happen, we’ll never know for sure. – e.g., if CSB wins, was it affected by a sympathy vote or not? Or would he have won anyway? How can you really tell?
*Someone will be president after the elections.
*Depending on who, there will probably be protest, if not riots by the opposition.
*Depending on who, China will either be happy or not.
That should take us to Sunday. After that, it is even more of a crap shoot till it all happens. So, my advice is… get out of your chairs, turn off the computer, walk away, and do the things you’d normally do on a grey Saturday. In otherwords… STOP THE MADNESS! 
OH… if you are walking down the street with your loved ones/friends/etc… and you see a large angry mob moving toward you. My one practical suggestion would be to turn around and go another way. 
Remember that in the initial reports they thought he might have been hit by a stray firecracker, because they were going off all around the car. Unless the agents specifically noticed the bullet hole, which isn’t that easy to see even on TV marked by a big red circle, much less in the chaos of the scene, they might not have twigged that it was a bullet and hence felt no need to dive on him. Of course, protocol in other countries might dictate that they dive on him even if he accidentally cuts his finger (just kidding, but you get the principle). Of course, that doesn’t mean the “secret service” aren’t incompetent for not taking more immediate action, but I assume they would be generally less jumpy than the US equivalents to begin with, because Taiwan doesn’t have a history of people trying to kill the President. I think. 
Just because we can’t explain everything that happened, does not mean
it was a set up.
Take the 5km hospital thing: is it possible that the security services check out a suitable hospital in every location the President visits just in case something happens? They may have avoided the nearest and largest hospital for security reasons.
Conspiracy theorists don’t have very good imaginations when it comes to down-to-earth explanations for things.
Shows like “24” have inculcated us with the notion that the simplest explanation CAN’T be the right one.
I find it hard to believe that the New York Times, which has two reporters on deck on Battleship Taiwan, is rehashing this garbage, thereby giving it legitimacy in the local press here. In other words, “even the New York Times said so…” Rubbish!
[Conflicting early reports about the shooting, the timing of the incident, and the light injuries suffered by Mr. Chen and Ms. Lu raised speculation around Taiwan that the event may have been staged to boost support for Mr. Chen, who was widely considered to be slightly trailing Mr. Lien going into election day. Some supporters of the Nationalist Party, speaking on television call-in shows, in Internet chat rooms such as forumosa.com and in street interviews, raised the possibility that the incident was arranged in advance to generate a last-minute sympathy vote for Mr. Chen. Several people said the event reminded them of a
Sorry LittleBuddha, I didn’t know you were a forensics expert. Have you considered changing careers? I mean, why do we need career detectives investigating the crime scene and examing evidence when we can just have you reconstruct the crime scene by watching television?
But still, I’m rather puzzled as to why people need to find far-fetched alternative thoeries. I mean, any normal person must agree that the most obvious and straightforward (and therefore, likely) explanation of what happened yesterday is that someone tried to assassinate Chen & Lu (nevermind what the motive might have been). But yet, some people feel the need to offer convoluted alternative theories that the victims staged it themselves, when there’s a much more obvious and straightforward explanation. Could it be just remotely possible that it’s because they’re rooting for the other team?
I’m curious: after the World Trade Center attacks did you also stand up for people who invented elaborate theories on how the CIA and Isrealis may have staged the entire event? Did you also berate the “militant” Americans who thought these theories were outlandish?
[quote=“SCL”]But still, I’m rather puzzled as to why people need to find far-fetched alternative thoeries… …But yet, some people feel the need to offer convoluted alternative theories that the victims staged it themselves, when there’s a much more obvious and straightforward explanation. Could it just be remotely possible that it’s because they’re rooting for the other team?
I’m curious: after the World Trade Center bombings did you also stand up for people who invented elaborate theories on how the CIA and Isrealis may have staged the entire event? Did you also berate the “militant” Americans who thought these theories were outlandish?[/quote]
And dont’ forget SCL that the Pentagon air crash never happened, the plane never crashed into a Pennsylvania hillside and the two twin towers were felled by improper maintenance!
You are so right: whoever people are rooting for, there go their conspiracy theories. It is normal among Taiwanese, it seems, but one does expect more out of more rational Westerners. But no, the kurouji market is wide open at this point and will remain until the cops get their men. I think the arrests will happen today.
With all the money available anything is possible.
Don’t rule out any options. We’ll have our own grassy knoll in a few days.
Don’t think that just because they found a shell that it means that anyone was shot. If it was a set up, not that it was for sure, but if it were, they would need to supply a bullet or two. Too many things are too convenient and too corny to believe that everything is as it seems. Chen may have character, he probably would sincerely believe, if it were a set up, that what he did was in the best interests of the country and he gets his shot at a new constitution, for the good of Taiwan. It’s all worked out a little too well.
Dalton gang, perhaps you’ve been here too long if you can’t see that Taiwanese would be capable of such crap. The Taiwanese know that it is possible. It’s not like America where no one would take such a risk, this is Taiwan, politicians aren’t that smart, just look at them. I can see your point though, but I wouldn’t rule anything out where these pack of twats are concerned, perhaps Brian Kennedy has a few words to say.
[quote=“Bassman”]
Don’t think that just because they found [two] shell(s) that it means that anyone was shot.[/quote]
Huh? Didn’t you read the hospital report and look at the photos online?
[quote=“Spack”]Just because we can’t explain everything that happened, does not mean
it was a set up.
[/quote]
Ok, that could be right. The same could also be said for…
Just because it looks like we can explain everything that happened, does not mean it wasn’t a set up. (Evolution - anyone?)
Both statements are true.
It doesn’t mean that it was OR wasn’t a set up, but with so many obvious questions begging to be answered, it would be stupid to count out any of the options.
The CIA did it. Seriously.
To my way of thinking, the main suspects are
(1) The KMT (or factions thereof)
(2) The Chinese government, and
(3) The CIA.
I don’t put any stock in
(4) The DPP (as a fraud)
theory unless the CIA was also involved.
So, which makes the most sense?
I’ve noticed piss-poor security around Chen Shui-Bian before. If somebody wanted to kill him, they’ve had lots of chances. That means, we have to ask why the assassin waited until this particular moment.
If the KMT or China wanted to do this (and were thinking rationally), they should have EITHER done so six months ago, which would have left the DPP in disarray; OR waited until after the election (which they might have won anyway). And they certainly should not have missed the target, on the day of the election which would produce a “rally 'round the flag” effect.
A crazy or irrational person wouldn’t be able to team up with another crazy person just like them, buy guns here, and stake out a target effectively. And generally speaking, professional assassins are better shots than this. If the “assassins” didn’t kill CSB, I think they avoided doing so on purpose.
This suggests that whoever did it, wanted the DPP to win. I know that Bush and CSB haven’t seen eye to eye, but long-term US interests (control of sea lanes and all that) suggest that Chen would be better for the U.S.
This also suggests a somewhat reckless pattern of behavior (any other foreign policy parallels spring to mind?) which does not remind me at all of the Chinese style.
So, whatcha think? Come to think of it, I HAVE seen a lot of Westerners wandering Taipei around with strange electronic equipment lately…
Let’s say it was a set up.
Two shooters aim to hit Chen and Lu in the stomach or leg. If all goes well, Chen will get sympathy votes and win the election.
Isn’t that an incredibly stupid risk to take? If you hit an artery (very easy to do) you end up killing the person you are trying to help.
If They’re so desperate to win They wouldn’t risk killing the person they want reelected.
The set up theory would make more sense if Chen was wearing a bulletproof vest and took a bullet in the chest. Another two cents for ya.
What about the Washington snipers? Or did you mean because this is Taiwan and guns are harder to get? Lots of instances of crazy people teaming up - in many cases, very efficiently. As for the timing thing, if it’s done for emotional reasons, logic doesn’t necessarily have a lot to do with picking the right time for maximum success. Maybe the fact it was the eve of the election had a factor in the timing.
I’m not discounting any theories at the moment, just picking at them to see whether they hold up
I’d agree with this - also, if he was part of it, I think he would have ‘played along’ by doubling over the minute he was wounded and claiming he’d been shot rather than continuing to wave. I guess there’s also the 'let’s try and wound the President for sympathy votes without his knowledge angle which is possible I guess - stupid, but possible.
If it was a DPP setup, wouldn’t they have played it up more. Like a hugely dramatic fall from the Jeep, a scream from Vice President Lu, or secret service men rushing about. They seem to be acting like nothing happened to maintain calm. Perhaps in all of the firecrackers etc., not many people even knew. I was surprised they didn’t duck and cover though, but I think he didn’t even know he was shot and once he did, he wanted to pretend like nothing happened in order to maintain the calm of the nation. He wanted to be a good president and not cause a scene.
In todays TT there was a quote from a KMT supporter that said, who would want to shoot him in his hometown, well that could explain the lax security, no one expected this especially there. Again, if it was a DPP stunt, they would have milked it for more value, however they seem to be downplaying it to maintain calm and order. Finally, if I was Chen I would want to only to go to a hospital that was DPP friendly, both to give them my business and also out of fear of doctors less likely to help me. By the way, 5 kilometers is not out of the way at all.
My theory is still that it was gangsters connected with election gambling rings that wanted to “fix the fight”, or because they were pissed for the crackdown.
My second theory is more farfetched yet plausible and it is in the spirit of Sisy Chen, that I say it was a KMT stunt by Lien to deflect blame if or when he loses the election, lest he have hell to pay to his Beijing masters and the post election KMT lynch mobs in Taiwan. Now he can just say “hey how could I compete with the sympathy vote? It’s not my fault.” Then he can retire with all of his limbs intact.
I’ve heard this business of guns being hard to get many times but I’d have to disagree. Guns are hard to get legally, but a week spent watching the evening Chinese news ought to shake anybody ought of the idea that there isn’t a god awful load of illegal weapons - mostly handguns. The hoods and the wannabes are packing pieces and they use them with frightening regularity, especially in central and southern Taiwan.
Lets put to bed this absurd DPP inspired “kurouji” business. The term was profferd by my mainland colleagues as soon as they heard the news. But then for them this democracy business is merely an extension of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and like many in the KMT (not all I hasten to add) they’d be happy to see this nonesense suspended when it suits them.
As someone else mentioned, the abdomen is a dangerous place to shoot a person - think aorta running down the middle. Which by the way, never obeys the edicts of a human anatomy text as many people have weird deviations to either side. Aiming for the legs of a moving target while in a big crowd is nigh on impossible.
That the bullet bounced off Liu’s knee and ripped across Chen suggests a low velocity round. It all screams homegrown idiot to me.
Well done DPP. To Sisy and her ilk, your day in the sun is quite simply over. Your comments show just how stupidly out of step you are with a country that is seriousy trying to shake of a brutal history of rule by the gun and replace it with the rule of law. Now if you wouldn’t mind vacating the stage there are more pressing issues than your fame and career. It’s over baby.
Ah Bian! Dong Suan!
HG
Taiwanese people (proKMT) have really forgotten the past and taken their freedom for granted.
[quote=“lane119”]I find it hard to believe that the New York Times, which has two reporters on deck on Battleship Taiwan, is rehashing this garbage, thereby giving it legitimacy in the local press here. In other words, “even the New York Times said so…” Rubbish!
[Conflicting early reports about the shooting, the timing of the incident, and the light injuries suffered by Mr. Chen and Ms. Lu raised speculation around Taiwan that the event may have been staged to boost support for Mr. Chen, who was widely considered to be slightly trailing Mr. Lien going into election day. Some supporters of the Nationalist Party, speaking on television call-in shows, in Internet chat rooms such as forumosa.com and in street interviews, raised the possibility that the incident was arranged in advance to generate a last-minute sympathy vote for Mr. Chen. Several people said the event reminded them of a
Apart from the saddest aspect of this, that an orchestrated attempt on the leaders of the nation actually occurred, is my real disappointment in the reaction of so many people here. I’m certainly glad there were no violent protests last night but on the other hand I was struck by how normal everything seemed in Taipei, crowds of people out laughing and chatting. At the gym barely one or two people were paying attention to the news coverage (and this was before Chen was even released from the hospital.) People I normally respect in my office saying they thought he was faking. And this link to a major business leader who publically switches support from Chen to Lien AFTER the assassination attempt.
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003107050
I have experienced the coldness of the Taiwanese before, but never at such an astonishing level.
I think it’s reasonable to consider it a Coup D’etate (thanks Stewart)attempt.
Looks like it, and smells like it. KMT motivated. Executed by Chen’s own security force. They should be able to pick up the perpetrators on video. They must have been standing very close to the vehicle to create such an angle through the glass. Likely as not they were standing right beside the vehicle on either side. They had to shoot from the hip with a hand gun, likely covered by a paper or similar. Bullet casings must be on the road side. The assasins wouldn’t have had time to recover them in the litter from the fire crackers and they wouldn’t have been ejected far because of the paper covering the weapon. Hence it should be possible to pin point their positions. I’d say they have them on video for sure. Having Chen’s security do the shooting would make perfect cover for the current spin put out by the KMT.