Here I was thinking how nice and civilized Taipei is, when I saw something in a McDonalds that shocked me to my core.
Mom & Grandma eating lunch with two young kids (girl I’d say 4, and boy about 6). Suddenly I hear slapping, look up and grandma is slapping boy across the face, hard, 4 times. They sit again, and the mother actually shuffles the obviously terrified boy over to grandma who hits him in the stomach, twice, hard enough to make him cry out (though not cry, I can only guess this abuse is regular, and he has previously learned that crying makes her worse). They left shortly after that - and the horrible old bat actually ground her heel into the child’s toes.
I was doing everything I could not to say anything. Don’t speak enough Chinese to say (pardon my French) “What the f&^$ are you doing you stupid old hag would you like me to hit you like that?”. In North America or any Western country of course I wouldn’t think of saying that, I’d have just called the police who would have at the very least removed these children from an obviously abusive home.
Almost said it in English anyway (she probably would have got the gist - I was pretty angry and though a gentle man by nature, I’m sure I would have looked scary). But two things stopped me:
It was noon, the restaurant was full, and nobody else said anything? I’m assuming this is some kind of social taboo against criticizing others in public and that, inwardly, these people were as horrified as I was. I hope that’s the case (or maybe not: culture or no culture, there’s no excuse for doing nothing when a child is being abused)?
The children’s “mother” (I use the word loosely) was there! That absolutely floored me. No one in the world could treat my children that way, not a teacher or my brother or my own mother. I would instantly disown anyone who did. What the hell was wrong with this women? I mean I do have some sympathy because obviously she is an abuse survivor herself, but FFS someone is beating your child in front of you and if anything, you seem to encourage and allow it.
Anyway sorry for the long post but I’m so angry I had to get this out. What should I have done?
[list=]Is this behavior illegal here as it is in most Western countries? Should I have called the police?
Should I have just sworn a blue streak at the old bitch, knowing that it wouldn’t affect her, but could at least maybe shock the mother out of the coma she’s apparently walking around in? It occurs to me that public humiliation might be a pretty shocking event for a Taiwanese, and this is a person in desperate need of a shock.
Any other ideas in case this happens again?[/list]
I’m thankful my own children weren’t with me at the time.
you will see it more and more regularly as you spend time here. Unfortunately, if you step in with your funny foreign ways (as they see it) you could make things worse for the child. The reason is they have lost face now.
People are shocked when they see that stuff, but feel powerless to stop.
OP it happens all the time. You’re not going to change the world, the cops are not going to even come except possibly to calm you down, if you get up and make a fuss everyone will just accept it because foreigners are a bit strange and go nuts sometimes. But probably not make the connection between your expostulating and the abuse.
If it had been me I probably would have lost it. And it would have been pointless. You did right.
Sure it’s illegal (lots of things are) but in Taiwan, no-one thinks of it as abuse until the child is actually dead.
And even Westerners on this board don’t generally interpret hitting children as abuse, unless it’s aggravated in some way.
Perfectly normal. Children get the shite battered out of them every five minutes here. Keeps the wee feckers in their place. Some of them turn out to be psychos of course but that’s the price you pay for not getting set upon by gangs of 12-year olds like you do in the UK.
Screw calling the police. That’s for poser crusaders. There’s not much one can really do, other than a vivid expression of disdainful opprobrium.
Drive on, it don’t mean nothing…
Video it, or at least pretend to. No loss of face, no crazy foreigner behaviour, but hopefully a wake-up call for the abusers and certainly a small reprieve for the abused.
I always say something, whether it’s a child or a non-human animal. Ask what they think they’re doing. The abuse stops, at least temporarily.
A very good idea. Nothing like a camera to stop or at least pause some human’s negligent overindulgence. I often whip out my cell phone, usually in traffic, to pretend to document some flagrant abuse. My phone doesn’t even have a camera, but appearances & intent solve that problem.
I have never ever seen anything as described by the OP while living in Taiwan. I am not saying it does not happen but I don’t even recall ever witnessing someone beating the crap out of their children. Slap on the bum or fingers perhaps, but otherwise it’s just scolding them (as loud as possible so that everyone notices what great parents they are).
Either I was just “lucky” or it’s not as common place as your statement implies.
To me they lost face the moment they hit the child.
Edit: Also not sure it makes things worst for the child, but they might direct their agression at you instead.
Or people in Taiwan give a rat’s ass about those that are not family or close friends.
I have never ever seen anything as described by the OP while living in Taiwan. I am not saying it does not happen but I don’t even recall ever witnessing someone beating the crap out of their children. Slap on the bum or fingers perhaps, but otherwise it’s just scolding them (as loud as possible so that everyone notices what great parents they are).
Either I was just “lucky” or it’s not as common place as your statement implies.
To me they lost face the moment they hit the child.
Or people in Taiwan give a rat’s ass about those that are not family or close friends.[/quote]
All Taiwanese are barbarian, they beat their kids to death and everyone think its ok, because they ALL beat their kids…
Honestly Gamemaker, I would be angry too, to see adults abusing kids… but please do not think that kid abuse is accepted in Taiwan, because it is not, just like you said you had to calm yourselve down and not beat the f**** hag, and I am convinced that other Taiwanese where in the same situation like you, shocked or angry, but helpless to do anything, because you would just worsen the situation for the kid…
Please do not sterotype, because you witnessed one case… there are a lot of great parents in Taiwan, they are not barbarians
Thats sad, iv not see abuse on that level in Taiwan on kids tho and iv lived there a long time. I wrote a thread bout watching some poor kid get thrown against the door here in the bay area in a store , some time ago and got bashed for not stepping in . If it had gone on I wouldve stepped in here in the bay area, but it can be risky to to that (specially here as you dont know if the momma or her boyfriend could be armed). BUt yes i think if it gets carried away the thing to do is step in, but its a hard thing to do, especially for you as you dont speak chinese. FOr a chinese person to step in would be a bit easier , at least language wise, but unless the kid was being murdered on the spot, probably nobody would step in.
As a full-blooded red-haired barbarian, I take great umbrage at such a sweeping statement. They don’t ALL beat their kids, and not more than 1/10th are of such classic barbarian lineage.
What a great idea. Wasn’t really expected a practical, peaceful, useful suggestion, but I love this. Thanks for much Stray Dog, if I ever see it again that’s what I’ll do.
Thanks gb that is what I am hoping to hear. I have seen many parents here who show nothing but love and tolerance for their kids, an I’d certainly like to believe what I saw is as unacceptable here as elsewhere. Perhaps the government should start an education campaign, so that everyone is aware what a humiliating, cowardly thing it is to beat a child (not that I’m a fanatic about this - a gentle swat on the bum is a parent’s choice, but this was far beyond that).
I’ve lived in Taiwan for eight years, and I’ve never seen a child beaten in public. I’ve seen teachers whack the shit out of them, but never parents. On the contrary, I see people spoiling their kids rotten and allowing them to get away with some really horrible behavior.
I’ve never seen anything like the OP’s experience over here.
Coincidentally, I just noticed a government information ad on TV where a family are having dinner and hear a violent argument from the room next door. Dad phones 113. Unless I’ve completely misunderstood it (which with my Mandarin wouldn’t be surprising) I assume this is a number for reporting this kind of thing. Maybe someone can correct me if I’m wrong.
[quote=“tomthorne”]I’ve never seen anything like the OP’s experience over here.
Coincidentally, I just noticed a government information ad on TV where a family are having dinner and hear a violent argument from the room next door. Dad phones 113. Unless I’ve completely misunderstood it (which with my Mandarin wouldn’t be surprising) I assume this is a number for reporting this kind of thing. Maybe someone can correct me if I’m wrong.[/quote]
You’re right. I’m not sure how effective it is; I’ve been tempted to call a few times, but likely it would be chalked up to a “misunderstanding” (The waiguoren didn’t understand what was really happening). Not sure, though.
Most people here don’t beat their kids publically, but they do beat them (Grandparents, on the other hand are often downright vicious). From what my students tell me, their parents seldom hit them for behavioural reasons (unless they happen to be inconveniencing their parents or have caused them to lose face). It’s usually for things like poor test scores, not wanting to do six hours of homework, or being caught cheating. (Please note that if the parents know the child is cheating, they won’t usually do anything until Junior gets caught and they lose face.)
That’s Chinese culture man. You do something wrong you get beat. My girlfriend is ABC and she got beat as a kid. So did all her ABC friends she grew up with. They get beat up for not getting 100s on their quizzes/tests. If my parents had even hit me anywhere but my butt, I’d prolly threaten to go to the police and report them, and I’d have a social worker at my house within the day. But this is Taiwan, so parents know best right. Not really but just accept it.
