Public child abuse normal/acceptable in Taiwan?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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[quote=“gamemaker”]GRC22 thanks for your helpful comments.

Homey, please cut it with the ABSURD over-generalizations that frankly come across as racist and aren’t worth responding to point by point. Taiwanese are human like anyone, there are good and bad.

Having read the thread, and talked to some Taiwanese friends, here is my take on what I saw.

In my opinion, Taiwan is on track to eliminate rampant child-abuse, but as a culture are about 30 years behind the west. They are taking the steps Canada and the USA took, but started much later:

  • Violence against children is illegal, but still happening quite a bit in families
  • Corporal punishment is no longer allowed in schools
  • The government is beginning education campaigns

IME that’s exactly where North America was about 30 years ago. If these steps continue, the next generation grows up knowing that it’s unacceptable and then you have more widespread cultural change.

The advice to quietly and cheerfully video such events, and some of the suggestions made by GRC22 are things that responsible citizens (both foreign and Taiwanese) can do to keep the change moving along.[/quote]

Homey does make some interesting points, but yes, they are over-generalized. I think you’re right, gamemaker, that it’s all about education. But still, when an old woman is going to town like that on a little kid, it’s kind of hard to turn a blind eye simply because you know she’s doing it due to lack of education. I don’t see how lack of education can be used to excuse abuse or something like that.

The cell phone idea is a good one – I might try that next time I see something going on. However, one time at the train station I stepped in when I saw a drunken couple fighting and the guy starting hitting his girlfriend (or course none of the Taiwanese were doing anything). I don’t see how this is a bad thing.

Personally, I don’t give a shit if I cause someone to ‘lose face.’ That’s a really lame reason to excuse shitty behaviour.

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[quote=“Mother Theresa”][quote=“bob_honest”]Only to point out the bleedin’ obvious, you can get sued by a victim of a traffic accident when you help that person. “This guy crushed me! I demand compensation!”

Which is why people don’t stop.[/quote]

I don’t believe that one bit.
[/quote]

Yeah, right, everything is just like back home here so I must be wrong. :wink:

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[quote=“bigal”]“No, but they did check for the gasoline that was pouring out of the car and into the headlights, which were still on”

And then the static electricty caused a spark and killed them all because they were not wearing safety equipment including wrong shoes that weren’t rubber soled, jeans with a metal zipper, phone in his pocket,rings on his fingers, watch and many other things that could set the fumes off.[/quote]

Righto.

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I agree James. I do see Taiwanese society taking steps towards change. I think they’re more open to change than just about any Asian culture. But I agree at the same time it’s no excuse. Everyone in a society, even good people, share responsibility through their inaction when a helpless person (child or otherwise) is being abused.

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Y’all should just do this.

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Bigal, You make a valid point regarding how much help or harm an untrained person can render at an accident scene.

The truth is though, it doesn’t take a lot of skill or training to simply stop and call for help. People here have no problem using a cell phone from what I can see. If they only cared enough to use that ‘skill’ when it’s really needed.

Same thing with Child abuse, or wife abuse. How hard is it to make a phone call? Not hard, but of course nobody wants to get involved.

68

Have you been in Taiwan long Homey?

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LOL! Nice one Sandman. If I could make that face I surely would. That’s a universal language there. :wink:

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I have never ever seen anything as described by the OP while living in Taiwan. I am not saying it does not happen but I don’t even recall ever witnessing someone beating the crap out of their children. Slap on the bum or fingers perhaps, but otherwise it’s just scolding them (as loud as possible so that everyone notices what great parents they are).
Either I was just “lucky” or it’s not as common place as your statement implies.[/quote]
Guess I’ve been lucky too. If anything, I’ve found people to be overly indulgent of kids here.

I did once see a mother, father, grandmother and small child (possibly two years old) sitting at a restaurant eating lunch. At one point the kid did something and the mother smacked the child (can’t remember where, face, bum or whatever). Quick as lightning the grandmother bitch slaps the mother in the face. I was like… :astonished:
The grandmother took the child on her lap, the father neither said or did anything and everyone went right on eating as if nothing had happened.
Don’t know if the grandmother was the mother or the father’s mother, but I remember thinking if someone smacked my wife like that the shit would fly.

I was very surprised.

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Hmmm…in all my years here I never picked up the impression that Taiwanese are particularly physically abusive to their children…relatively speaking. I do see a large amount of head slapping (or head poking) of children which seems to be a habit here…as even good friends do that to each in jest/fun. I do believe a higher amount of Taiwanese teachers are abusive relatively speaking (if compare to U.S)…but that is due to U.S. teachers fear for their own lives in their classrooms.

Actually, I have seen just as many children slap or hit their parents to show their anger at parents. I think allowing this bad behavior has led to older children beating their parents here. Overall, I think there is too much of this slapping used to display displeasure.

I am not against physically punishing children. I still believe the children here need more serious punishment as they are getting very spoiled. Maybe a little butt spanking would keep the kid living below us from screaming and crying every single morning. From what we hear he simply just likes to scream and cry with parents begging him to stop. Or the kid across the street who likes to screams incredibly loud for long periods like he was being killed…really…a blood curdling screaming…only to stop imediately when parents give in and pass him the candy. We originally thought this child was being abused every week until we decided to listen to see what was happening.

As for the orginal thread discussion…I am not sure if I would step in to stop the action. In the same situation with lots of people around and my wife not around I probably would not. Is that because people are often telling me I don’t understand Taiwanese people’ “culture”? Maybe. But if my wife was with me I bet we would step in together. She is the brains in the family…I am the muscle…well, actually she is the muscle as well. But I have to give myself “face”.

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[quote=“bismarck”]I did once see a mother, father, grandmother and small child (possibly two years old) sitting at a restaurant eating lunch. At one point the kid did something and the mother smacked the child (can’t remember where, face, bum or whatever). Quick as lightning the grandmother bitch slaps the mother in the face. I was like… :astonished:
The grandmother took the child on her lap, the father neither said or did anything and everyone went right on eating as if nothing had happened.
Don’t know if the grandmother was the mother or the father’s mother, but I remember thinking if someone smacked my wife like that the shit would fly.

I was very surprised.[/quote]

I am under the impression that abuse of daughters-in-law by the mother-in-law is not as uncommon as you might think. Especially where the son has married “beneath his station” in the eyes of the MIL, eg, a mainland or SEA bride, or just a girl of no status. I’ve not seen it myself, but there are quite a few stories in the media relating to this from time to time. If you marry a rich man’s daughter, your mother does not smack her with impunity, that’s for sure.

I don’t like this kind of airing your dirty laundry in public. These people are IMHO rather “di ji” for behaving like this in public, and it’s not exactly a great education for the child.

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[quote=“Lord Lucan”][quote=“bismarck”]I did once see a mother, father, grandmother and small child (possibly two years old) sitting at a restaurant eating lunch. At one point the kid did something and the mother smacked the child (can’t remember where, face, bum or whatever). Quick as lightning the grandmother bitch slaps the mother in the face. I was like… :astonished:
The grandmother took the child on her lap, the father neither said or did anything and everyone went right on eating as if nothing had happened.
Don’t know if the grandmother was the mother or the father’s mother, but I remember thinking if someone smacked my wife like that the shit would fly.

I was very surprised.[/quote]

I am under the impression that abuse of daughters-in-law by the mother-in-law is not as uncommon as you might think. Especially where the son has married “beneath his station” in the eyes of the MIL, eg, a mainland or SEA bride, or just a girl of no status. I’ve not seen it myself, but there are quite a few stories in the media relating to this from time to time. If you marry a rich man’s daughter, your mother does not smack her with impunity, that’s for sure.

I don’t like this kind of airing your dirty laundry in public. These people are IMHO rather “di ji” for behaving like this in public, and it’s not exactly a great education for the child.[/quote]
I agree fully. I had no idea whether she was the old women’s daughter or the DIL. She may very well have been the DIL. But if that was the case her husband is a double coward for not standing up for his wife.

And you’re also right in saying it’s a terrible example for the child. All he learnt from that experience is that if grandma is around mum can go stuff herself.
The way I was raised was that a man’s family is inviolate. Actually had a huge confrontation with my BIL a bit more than a week ago for disrespecting my wife in front of my son. His POV is she’s his meimei and he can do and say as he pleases towards her. When I got confrontational he lost face (I suppose) and wanted to have a go. As a result I threw him out of the house and told him he’s not welcome before he apologizes to her.
I’m guessing he wont, and I don’t give a shit either.

Admittedly, not the best course of action on my side, but I kind of passed caring when he called at 1am two weeks ago to borrow her car.

I really love Taiwan, but somedays I wish I could just be back in South Africa where things actually make sense…

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[quote=“GRC22”]Child abuse acceptable in Taiwan?

No, Child Abuse is not acceptable in Taiwan.

Child Welfare in Taiwan and other useful websites:

Child Welfare Bureau, Ministry of the Interior
cbi.gov.tw/CBI%5F2/internet/ … index.aspx

Child Welfare in Taiwan
children.org.tw/welfare_en.htm

Unicef (will be able to assist you)
unicef.org/protection/index_ … ation.html[/quote]

Yeah, there are a lot of laws in Taiwan… and a lot of people meant to enforce them. Forgive me for sounding like a cynic, but I really don’t think that most people in these organizations are willing to get involved, other than perhaps a “surface” interview. More than likely, their families operate in much the same way. The emergency domestic abuse “113” number has been in effect for awhile now, along with a strong commercial campaign, but it will take longer than that to change the outlook of most members of a society.

(And often parents intentionally send their children to schools practicing illegal corporal punishment; it’s the only way to keep those grades up, right?)

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Oh man, I have been there.

So many times.

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Agreed, it takes a generation to really change an attitude like this (just like it takes a generation to eliminate a prejudice). In the meantime we need as many ways as possible to educate people on more modern values of child-rearing.