Public child abuse normal/acceptable in Taiwan?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
41

in response to homeys last post… i concur.

I had stopped to help 3 people who were injured in a scooter accident at 3am.
Did anyone stop and help… yes, one person did, other than me, but most kept driving by… irrespective of the man on the ground bleeding.

If it aint your family and friends on the ground… screw you is the common theme.
Im glad i never had an accident while i was living in Taiwan… im sure i would have been there for a very long time.

Taiwan has a long way to go before they ever can be considered “independent” or “democratic”

PS when i told one of my Taiwanese friends about the incident, he said he would have kept going…
edited to add: i will give credit to the one guy who stopped. It shows me that although the majority dont give a crap, a few still do.

42

Only to point out the bleedin’ obvious, you can get sued by a victim of a traffic accident when you help that person. “This guy crushed me! I demand compensation!”

Which is why people don’t stop.
:grandpa:

43

[quote=“bob_honest”]Only to point out the bleedin’ obvious, you can get sued by a victim of a traffic accident when you help that person. “This guy crushed me! I demand compensation!”

Which is why people don’t stop.
:grandpa:[/quote]

Indeed. I have been lectured time and again by local people on the dangers of Good Samaritanism.

My wife, who is Taiwanese, says “If I see some helpless person collapsed on the side of the road, I’m stopping.” She’d also intervene in a child beating, if it was more than just a slap to the face or swat on the bum. I think there are at least a few million Taiwanese who are like her, maybe more. Roughly 20% who would inconvenience themselves to help a stranger.

Perhaps more would like to help but are afraid. I remember stopping a young lad from pummeling his girlfriend some years ago. He was a big, strapping lad, and nobody but me got in his face, but many were gathered around looking upset by the scene.

44

I’ve seen both. Only one other person stopped to help a dying scooter-accident victim on ChengDe Rd about a year ago; and a whole bunch of people stopped to help an overturned car, even pulling the woman out the back window.

The phenomenon has been studied in detail, and the studies show that the more populated the city, the less likely people are to stop. The possible reasons are that someone thinks that, with so many other people around, someone else will stop, and also that we tend to tune out others when living in such unnatural proximity.

But, indeed, if you ask locals, they’ll tell you that they would be afraid of being sued. In fact, that almost happened to me when I stopped to help a woman who crashed her own scooter into the back of another scooter behind me. When the ambulance came, she tried to tell them that it was my fault. Still, personally, I’m not going to let the dicks prevent me from helping someone who’s desperately in need of assistance.

45

Good for you Stray dog. Me neither, I can’t just drive by, or eat while another person is in great pain or dying. It’s our responsibility for being witness to such events. No one else will help, so that persons only chance is the few foreigners and/or the rare and bold local who actually cares about people. I think I read about it here, that you should park your scooter far back before the accident, not after the accident before assisting.

Same with child abuse, or the one I see more often: wife/gf abuse. Tricky situation getting involved in domestic matters, but once again we may be the victims only chance for help. If direct confrontation is not feasible, take pictures/video and report the incident. If you save even one person/child then its well worth it.

This mentality of suing the person who stops to help you is just sick and twisted. Worms. Bloody worms. It’s an ‘all about me’ society for sure. No space for morality or ethics or common decency. 'I hate everyone that’s not me, and I’m going to sue the first person that comes to help me" WTF ?

GRC22 - excellent post. We need to report what we see.

46

In New York they’re very polite. They carefully step over you. By the way, did anyone else see the protracted domestic at Zhongshan Guozhong station last night? Just behind the entry gates to the platforms. One woman screaming her head off, a man shouting at her, another woman sheltering some kids, couple of other people trying to talk with man or woman or both, some shoving and wrestling, it had obviously been going on before I arrived, and continued for several minutes. It was still going when I left. You had to pass through the scuffling if you wanted to get to the platform, so a lot of people were just standing on the safe side of the entry gates, and waiting for it all to play out. I was surprised that security hadn’t been called already.

I turned around and took a cab.

47

[quote=“bob_honest”]Only to point out the bleedin’ obvious, you can get sued by a victim of a traffic accident when you help that person. “This guy crushed me! I demand compensation!”

Which is why people don’t stop.[/quote]

I don’t believe that one bit. Yes, one can get sued for helping. And yes some people may say that’s why they wouldn’t stop and help. But I believe 99% of the reason people don’t stop has nothing to do with that.

The true reasons they don’t stop are (a) they’re in a hurry to get through the red light on their way home and if they stop it will be even redder, (b) if they stop to help they might get their hands all dirty or bloody or something, or at least they’d have to step out of the airconditioned car into the yucky heat and humidity, and (c) they’ve not been trained to respond immediately to sudden new, unknown situations – they’ve been trained to sit in rows and memorize lists and learn how to respond the same way as everyone else to the same boring old facts, so (d) they don’t have a clue what they would/could do to help and surely someone more qualified will come along to help.

48

Child abuse acceptable in Taiwan?

No, Child Abuse is not acceptable in Taiwan.

Child Welfare in Taiwan and other useful websites:

Child Welfare Bureau, Ministry of the Interior
cbi.gov.tw/CBI%5F2/internet/ … index.aspx

Child Welfare in Taiwan
children.org.tw/welfare_en.htm

Unicef (will be able to assist you)
unicef.org/protection/index_ … ation.html

49

Good points, MT, but the few people I asked all said the same thing, including my gf at the time who was with me at the time of the scooter accident.

50

[quote=“Homey”]Normal daily event. Chinese have no empathy, sympathy or compassion. It’s simply beyond their mental ability to care about other people or animals. Sad depressing place for sure.

How a restaurant full of people can eat while someone is beaten, or 100’s if not 1000’s of people can drive by while someone bleeds to death on the street, I will never understand. I will never understand such cold, heartless, and selfish behavior, but of course I’m just a crazy foreigner.

[b]I’ve observed that there are two type of Chinese.

  1. The racist ones that discriminate --> They hate foreigners.

  2. The non racist ones that don’t discriminate --> They hate everybody.

[/b]
The truth is, these are not happy people. Happy people want to spread that happiness to others. On the flip side, people in great pain, will often spread that pain to others even if its completely unconscious. We can only share with others what we have to share. Happy people don’t do the nasty, rude, and often dangerous actions that we see everyday. The sad truth is that both the victim and the perpetrator are suffering. It’s a deeply sick society, one that doesn’t allow honest introspection or communication of natural feelings. These people are under intense pressure to maintain imaginary and irrational face. Sick individuals will never make a healthy society no matter how many Confucian ideals are thrust upon them.[/quote]

Seriously. Stupid, offensive horse shit. Where do you live?

51

Wasn’t this discussed before. The point being is if you are not trained to help somebody you might be doing more damage than good. Rather than stopping to help that man in a traffic accident is it not better to phone the professionals and you get out of the way so they can get there quicker than causing an obstacle.
you intervening in a slapping may actually cause more problems as you have no idea the mental stability of the people involved. Your intervention might well be the turning point from a slap to a slaying.

Pulling a woman from an over turned car??? Did they brace her neck, support her back, check for broken skin or foreign bodies. Internal bleeding, broken arteries. Who knows what damage they did.

52

No, but they did check for the gasoline that was pouring out of the car and into the headlights, which were still on. :unamused:

53

[quote=“Damage”][quote=“Homey”]Normal daily event. Chinese have no empathy, sympathy or compassion. It’s simply beyond their mental ability to care about other people or animals. Sad depressing place for sure.

How a restaurant full of people can eat while someone is beaten, or 100’s if not 1000’s of people can drive by while someone bleeds to death on the street, I will never understand. I will never understand such cold, heartless, and selfish behavior, but of course I’m just a crazy foreigner.

[b]I’ve observed that there are two type of Chinese.

  1. The racist ones that discriminate --> They hate foreigners.

  2. The non racist ones that don’t discriminate --> They hate everybody.

[/b]
The truth is, these are not happy people. Happy people want to spread that happiness to others. On the flip side, people in great pain, will often spread that pain to others even if its completely unconscious. We can only share with others what we have to share. Happy people don’t do the nasty, rude, and often dangerous actions that we see everyday. The sad truth is that both the victim and the perpetrator are suffering. It’s a deeply sick society, one that doesn’t allow honest introspection or communication of natural feelings. These people are under intense pressure to maintain imaginary and irrational face. Sick individuals will never make a healthy society no matter how many Confucian ideals are thrust upon them.[/quote]

Seriously. Stupid, offensive horse shit. Where do you live?[/quote]
Not America, not Taiwan, not Europe, not the UK, not South Africa, not Canada, not Australia, not New Zealand, that’s for sure. Because in ALL those places, most people will studiously ignore other people’s suffering if they think they might get hassle if they get involved. And in ALL those places there are those who will get involved come what may if they think they can alleviate someone else’s suffering.
However, its much much easier for the clueless and the ignorant to label the people of “some” countries as somehow less compassionate than the people of “some other” countries. Does nothing but illustrate the daftness of the labeler IMO.
In Britain, for example, a doctor is bound by law to attend to a traffic accident if he or she comes across one and the paramedics haven’t arrived. In America, doctors are bound by their insurance companies to just drive on by or risk litigation for which they won’t be covered.
Goddamn those unfeeling Yanquis, eh? :unamused:

54

Re: accidents

I thought this was something to do with martial law and not wanting to get involved with the police in anyway - because they’ll mark you out and also since you might have to file a report, and the police here are really slow, this could take 8 hours…

I admit to driving past a few, but thats because despite being trained, there were already people on the scene doing damage and I didnt want to be held responsibe or anger the people involved,. In japan I had a drunk guy collapse on me, I caught him and took him to a wall and sat him down - he fell of the chair and his mate thought I had punched him out and followed me for the next 8 hours (we went to a salsa club and I prewarned the bouncer not to let him in and then a KTV on an all nighter!!!)

Re: child abuse
Not that I agree, but generally its best that foreigners stay out of most situations for their own personal safety, the cell phone idea is a great passive-aggressive confrontation, but stepping in?

My two cents is that most people do want to get involved, but not many know how (see MT’s point regarding creative thought) in protracted situations a “drag-net” of spectators is generally formed who slowly close in while spectating and cut off the space

And in response to others, my MIL’s favourite threat is “chien bian” - or “ill kick you”, which is exactly the kind of thing I do not want my kids raised around, prefer to have kids in cram school for 8 hours a day or quit working than that!

55

[quote=“sandman”][quote=“Damage”][quote=“Homey”]Normal daily event. Chinese have no empathy, sympathy or compassion. It’s simply beyond their mental ability to care about other people or animals. Sad depressing place for sure.

How a restaurant full of people can eat while someone is beaten, or 100’s if not 1000’s of people can drive by while someone bleeds to death on the street, I will never understand. I will never understand such cold, heartless, and selfish behavior, but of course I’m just a crazy foreigner.

[b]I’ve observed that there are two type of Chinese.

  1. The racist ones that discriminate → They hate foreigners.

  2. The non racist ones that don’t discriminate → They hate everybody.

[/b]
The truth is, these are not happy people. Happy people want to spread that happiness to others. On the flip side, people in great pain, will often spread that pain to others even if its completely unconscious. We can only share with others what we have to share. Happy people don’t do the nasty, rude, and often dangerous actions that we see everyday. The sad truth is that both the victim and the perpetrator are suffering. It’s a deeply sick society, one that doesn’t allow honest introspection or communication of natural feelings. These people are under intense pressure to maintain imaginary and irrational face. Sick individuals will never make a healthy society no matter how many Confucian ideals are thrust upon them.[/quote]

Seriously. Stupid, offensive horse shit. Where do you live?[/quote]
Not America, not Taiwan, not Europe, not the UK, not South Africa, not Canada, not Australia, not New Zealand, that’s for sure. Because in ALL those places, most people will studiously ignore other people’s suffering if they think they might get hassle if they get involved. And in ALL those places there are those who will get involved come what may if they think they can alleviate someone else’s suffering.
However, its much much easier for the clueless and the ignorant to label the people of “some” countries as somehow less compassionate than the people of “some other” countries. Does nothing but illustrate the daftness of the labeler IMO.
In Britain, for example, a doctor is bound by law to attend to a traffic accident if he or she comes across one and the paramedics haven’t arrived. In America, doctors are bound by their insurance companies to just drive on by or risk litigation for which they won’t be covered.
Goddamn those unfeeling Yanquis, eh? :unamused:[/quote]

LOL, this guy talking about only two types of Chinese people is sick. I mean if he was joking around that’d be one thing, but he sounds dead serious. Very sad.

And everyone in America is protected by Good Samaritan Laws. If you decide to help someone who is seriously injured or ill, you face no liabilities. This protection even goes further for doctors and those first aid certified, but it even applies to your average Joe.

I’ve seen medical emergencies on flights twice, and both times an American doctor was on board and stepped forward to administer aid. This law was passed to prevent hesitation among bystanders. And of course I’ve seen plenty of people in the states jump out of their vehicles to help at the scene of an accident, and of course I’ve seen just as many people drive on by not really caring. It’s the same everywhere man. You have people who care and those who don’t. All you can do is treat people the way you want to be treated. So accept it.

56

Ok, my frustration obviously got the better of my judgment.

To all those offended by my remarks I apologize.

I personally have yet to meet anyone besides a handful of foreigners that care about anyone other than their own immediate friends and family. That has been my experience. I hope to meet some good Chinese/Taiwanese on this rock who actually have compassion for other people and animals. Until that happens, I have nothing else to base my opinions on except for the daily events and interactions I see. From what I have seen, it’s appears that Chinese people just plain hate everyone. That has been my perception. This is only a perception and an opinion. There are 9 billion of these at any given moment, mine is no more or no less relevant or important. It’s just an opinion and perception.

If your perception is different, and everything is rosy and smiles, then more power to you.

I will try to tone down my remarks in the future to avoid offending anyone.

57

I thought your observations were interesting:

I can certainly see a lot of truth and insight there; I just wouldn’t want you to think that everyone here is like that. Perhaps because of how I spend the bulk of my time, I see huge numbers of extremely kind people who go way out of their way to make a positive difference. But then I do also hear most of those kind people make the same comments about their fellow citizens that you did.

The truth is, there’s good and bad everywhere, and ignoring the suffering of others is a global issue; however, if we show people how to make a difference, lead by example, and make them aware of their own ability and desire to help others, then we can fix it.

Others will tend to behave in the way you percieve them - studies prove that. See the good in others and you help to make them better people. [/sage]

58

GRC22 thanks for your helpful comments.

Homey, please cut it with the ABSURD over-generalizations that frankly come across as racist and aren’t worth responding to point by point. Taiwanese are human like anyone, there are good and bad.

Having read the thread, and talked to some Taiwanese friends, here is my take on what I saw.

In my opinion, Taiwan is on track to eliminate rampant child-abuse, but as a culture are about 30 years behind the west. They are taking the steps Canada and the USA took, but started much later:

  • Violence against children is illegal, but still happening quite a bit in families
  • Corporal punishment is no longer allowed in schools
  • The government is beginning education campaigns

IME that’s exactly where North America was about 30 years ago. If these steps continue, the next generation grows up knowing that it’s unacceptable and then you have more widespread cultural change.

The advice to quietly and cheerfully video such events, and some of the suggestions made by GRC22 are things that responsible citizens (both foreign and Taiwanese) can do to keep the change moving along.

59

“No, but they did check for the gasoline that was pouring out of the car and into the headlights, which were still on”

And then the static electricty caused a spark and killed them all because they were not wearing safety equipment including wrong shoes that weren’t rubber soled, jeans with a metal zipper, phone in his pocket,rings on his fingers, watch and many other things that could set the fumes off.

60

[quote=“bigal”]“No, but they did check for the gasoline that was pouring out of the car and into the headlights, which were still on”

And then the static electricty caused a spark and killed them all because they were not wearing safety equipment including wrong shoes that weren’t rubber soled, jeans with a metal zipper, phone in his pocket,rings on his fingers, watch and many other things that could set the fumes off.[/quote]

So just let em bleed right? (Until the Taiwanese paramedics come along with their rubber soled shoes and safety equipment lol)