Racism?

Life Dating & Relationships
41

Eh! Eh! Another Trini!

Lemme give it to ya straight one brother to another, in general, Taiwanese are EXTREMELY racist. More than you think and more than the responses here would lead you to believe. Think 1950’s USA maybe. You will be stared at. People will say bad things about you to your face. People will freak out and express their displeasure at your presence. The more educated the person, the more potential for racism (you are probably aware of this phenomenon, and it is no less true in Taiwan). The most racist place on the island is Taipei. You will be refused service. With regard to dating, yes, there is a stigma associated with dating a black man and the women can be cold, but all in all Taiwan ain’t all that bad a place for a black man, depending on your attitude. As always, YMMV.

What I came to appreciate about Taiwan is that the people are generally upfront with how they feel about you. They don’t mince words and seem to have little regard for how you might feel about their actions. I don’t think Taiwan has more racists than anywhere else, and it may even have less, but racism will be in your face so you will feel it and see it more. On the other hand, people who aren’t racist will be that much more open to you and they really won’t care. Taiwanese racism is the most apparent in the company of white people because you will see a drastic difference in the way you are treated vs the way they are treated. Occasionally you will be the one treated well while they’re treated like crap! Either way, it is not cool.

Some tips, smile (inwardly too!). Avoid displays of anger. Be patient. The jerks will make themselves known before the saints. Be approachable rather than outgoing. For some reason, the Taiwanese “don’t know how to talk to black people,” as if you were somehow different from any other kind of person. Really stupid yes, but a concern for some people nevertheless. Let them make the first move (they will) and you will be rewarded. Learn some Taiwanese, not just Mandarin. You will be amazed at how much the Taiwanese open up if you use their language rather than the state language. Public face private face and all that.

Oh, but you were concerned about your dating prospects right? You won’t attract as many women as the equivalent white guy would, but by no means will you be a pariah. In fact, your race will act as a kind of filter as the women who will be attracted to you will tend to be more interesting and mature than the average girl. Beware of the static you and your girlfriend will get when you’re out on the town. In some places, being a black man around town is a surefire way to get the attention of at least a C-list celebrity, if you’re with an Asian woman you can crank that up to B-list. Make sure you know a few places where people are used to foreigners to get a breather. In Tapei Tien Mu is a good place to go to feel normal for a while.

BTW, the average Taiwanese can only distinguish between African and African-American, if that. More than a few people thought I was Indian actually. Dey no no nuttin’ 'bout no teensie island but dey’s own!

42

I’ve encountered horrified reactions when I’ve asked local people if they have any Aboriginal ancestry. “Oh, heavens no!” is a common response…as if my question was somehow insulting. In fact, my question was intended to be a compliment, because in these cases the person tends to be unusually attractive.[/quote]

i find this odd, cos my girlfriend thinks she has some Aborigine ancestry to her and she is rather proud of it. I’m pretty sure if anyone says anything bad about it to her she will go crazy.

She is the only person I have actually met who says they have some aborigine in them but I quite like it, and like the fact she is proud of it.

She said when we got in the gondola that the other people in there were speaking Hakka and were aborigine too but I cant tell the difference by just looking at them.

43

Many pro-Taiwan people are proud of their real or imagined aboriginal heritage. After you have been here for a while, you will be able to see who probably has some pingpu (plains-dwelling aborigine) in them. In some areas, like Shalu or Hengchun, there are many assimilated pingpu. Hakkas lived in the hills near aboriginal areas. There was a lot of intermarriage.

44

My old lady’s from Shalu and her grandpa was pure pingpu. She’s very proud of this.

45

[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”]Ever see any ghettos with immigrants from third world countries in Taiwan? No.

And you never will. This is Han country and Han it will stay.

[/quote]

True, but there is a big black community in Guangzhou. Large immigrant areas also emerging in South Korea. If Taiwan needs to continue to import labour, then things will change slowly whether the politicians like it or not.

Racism in Taiwan-most people will say they don’t think it is possible for Taiwanese to be racist, but racism is prevalent. It just takes a different form to that of the west. My black roommate was told by a recruiter that she would not be considered for a job because “Taiwanese people would not want a black person in their house”. But then she does very well teaching English in Taiwan, there are plenty of people who don’t have such attitudes. If you move in younger, more liberal and educated Taipei circles it shouldn’t be much of an issue.

46

my girlfriend is very pro Taiwan mate. She avoids products from China like the plague however.

I like this is better than being embarrassed by your culture though.

47

my girlfriend is very pro Taiwan mate. She avoids products from China like the plague however.

I like this is better than being embarrassed by your culture though.[/quote]

Wait… being a racist is better than being an embarrassment?

(Hey feel free to jump on my logic. It is a local sport.)

48

My old lady’s from Shalu and her grandpa was pure pingpu. She’s very proud of this.[/quote]

Your grandma sounds nice. So where is your wife from?

49

[quote=“Dragonbones”]
I think you’ll find less racism if you hang out with more highly educated or cosmopolitan crowds. [/quote]

White or Taiwanese versions? Because I experienced more racism among those who were so-called “highly educated or cosmopolitan”. Remember those who fall into those groups tend to want to emulate a white western style of life.

50

My mother-in-law is Hakka too and can sing some aborigine songs. While there are no aborigines left in the area you can see it in the blood-line. Almost all Taiwanese have some aboriginal blood due to the fact only men were allowed immigrate for hundreds of years.

51

My old lady’s from Shalu and her grandpa was pure pingpu. She’s very proud of this.[/quote]

Your grandma sounds nice. So where is your wife from?[/quote]

No, man, it’s his mom who’s from Shalu.
But, yeah, where is your lovely wife from?
Once again, I’m compelled to quote Bill Monroe when introducing Tex Logan:
“I’d like to indtroduce you all to Tex Logan, Tex, come on up…that’s Tex’s wife over there, hello, she’s from Boston, she’s a lovely, lovely lady…Tex, well, he’s just a musician…”

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Dragonbones”]
I think you’ll find less racism if you hang out with more highly educated or cosmopolitan crowds. [/quote]

White or Taiwanese versions? Because I experienced more racism among those who were so-called “highly educated or cosmopolitan”. Remember those who fall into those groups tend to want to emulate a white western style of life.[/quote]

Yeah, sorry, DB, but I completely disagree, the worst racism stuff I’ve seen has always come from semi-educated semi-cosmopolitan twats who think they’re smarter than the average Taiwanese and hold all kinds of bullshit preconceptions that are blatantly racist…
Whenever I have a friend of colour over to my (decidedly blue-collar) neighborhood and we’re out and around, noone bats an eye.

52

God, yeah! The so-called “educated” ones tend to be the absolute WORST in my experience. And I have to deal with these so-called “educated” fuckers day in, day out. On the other hand, the poor benighted souls in my Bitan neighbourhood tend to be the complete opposite.
Guess which ones I choose to hang out with.

53

God, yeah! The so-called “educated” ones tend to be the absolute WORST in my experience. And I have to deal with these so-called “educated” fuckers day in, day out. On the other hand, the poor benighted souls in my Bitan neighbourhood tend to be the complete opposite.
Guess which ones I choose to hang out with.[/quote]

Roamin’ with the homies…

54

I wonder if it’s a function of the Western undereducated often being part of the racial majority, while the Eastern undereducated are often discriminated against themselves. I know I tend to think like DB that the less educated are more racist, but I think that’s from my US upbringing.

In other words, you often find (in the US at least) the more open and “flaming” racists in the white underclasses, where they are the majority and don’t have a long history of being discriminated against.

Whereas in Asia in general, the undereducated are often the ones being discriminated against socially (maybe they have browner skin from working the fields, or maybe they live with a large family in a bad neighborhood or out in the sticks). So they don’t tend to discriminate against others so much. On the other hand, like my aunt used to say, my eyes are brown because I’m full of shit.

Thailand provides a small contrast to this generality though - the underclass Thais still often look down on the even more underclass Cambodian and Laos, often refugee classes.

55

You obviously know little to nothing about the history of white trash, rednecks and hillbillies in America. What, do you think those are terms of affection? The persecution of such people starts at least in the mid-seventeenth century with Cromwell’s purges of Catholic Ireland. Such people (as well as the urban poor in other parts of the British Isles) were sent to the American colonies and also the West Indies, where about 50% died in the first year due to a combination of disease, tropical heat (hence the term redneck – from the sunburn) and being worked to death. Later, in the U.S., such people were often chased off, or cheated out of, their land by various industries (such as mining) or rich farmers, or just generally given a rough time.

Many of the Scots who ended up in Canada and elsewhere ended up there as a direct result of the Highland Clearances.

So no, there is a long history of discrimination against poor whites too.

56

You obviously know little to nothing about the history of white trash, rednecks and hillbillies in America. What, do you think those are terms of affection? The persecution of such people starts at least in the mid-seventeenth century with Cromwell’s purges of Catholic Ireland. Such people (as well as the urban poor in other parts of the British Isles) were sent to the American colonies and also the West Indies, where about 50% died in the first year due to a combination of disease, tropical heat (hence the term redneck – from the sunburn) and being worked to death. Later, in the U.S., such people were often chased off, or cheated out of, their land by various industries (such as mining) or rich farmers, or just generally given a rough time.

Many of the Scots who ended up in Canada and elsewhere ended up there as a direct result of the Highland Clearances.

So no, there is a long history of discrimination against poor whites too.[/quote]

Good point. But the gap between discrimination of Scots and Catholics in the 17th to early 20th centuries to the present isn’t a convincing argument to me or most anyone else in the real world that the white underclass are currently and regularly discriminated against to warrant a sympathy vote. I am wrong that they don’t have a long history of discrimination, but that history has been discontinued. The white underclass racism against well, anyone not white, the mid- and upper-class racism against the lower classes in Asia, and the Thai lower class racism against non-Thai SE Asians is going on right now, and these are the times that most of us here were raised in unless you’re over 60 - which is why it’s pertinent to our stereotypes today, and thus pertinent to this thread. I’m sure you’d agree that “modern” midwest and southern racists does not equal discriminated scots and irish immigrants, just like 18 year old black youth does not equal former slave, or even discriminated black in the 60’s.

57

You obviously know little to nothing about the history of white trash, rednecks and hillbillies in America. What, do you think those are terms of affection? The persecution of such people starts at least in the mid-seventeenth century with Cromwell’s purges of Catholic Ireland. Such people (as well as the urban poor in other parts of the British Isles) were sent to the American colonies and also the West Indies, where about 50% died in the first year due to a combination of disease, tropical heat (hence the term redneck – from the sunburn) and being worked to death. Later, in the U.S., such people were often chased off, or cheated out of, their land by various industries (such as mining) or rich farmers, or just generally given a rough time.

Many of the Scots who ended up in Canada and elsewhere ended up there as a direct result of the Highland Clearances.

So no, there is a long history of discrimination against poor whites too.[/quote]

Dude, apples and freakin oranges, you’re about to start an argument in which the two points don’t conflict.
Yes, there’s a long history of discrimination against poor whites (although the discrimination is pretty much all economic rather than racial).
And yes, in North America, blind flat-out racism is rarely practiced by folks who’ve been to college and live in homes that are generally considered unmovable.
You’re not disagreeing with each other.
Jeez, did you share a needle with Marboulette or something?

58

Anyway I may be wrong, which is why I wrote this in a forum and not my soon to be released “History of Redneck Cocksuckers in America, Volume 12: “The Bush Years””.

59

I find this odd, cos my girlfriend thinks she has some Aborigine ancestry to her and she is rather proud of it. I’m pretty sure if anyone says anything bad about it to her she will go crazy.

She is the only person I have actually met who says they have some aborigine in them but I quite like it, and like the fact she is proud of it.[/quote]
I also found Chris’s statement to be odd. In my experience, friends I’ve had who told me they had aboriginal bloodlines were very proud of it.

[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”]Ever see any ghettos with immigrants from third world countries in Taiwan? No.

And you never will. This is Han country and Han it will stay.[/quote]
What about the Burmese neighborhood in Zhonghe near Nanshijiao MRT Station? Or the Korean street in Yunghe (near Cardinal Tien Hospital – I think they are mostly overseas Chinese from Korea who emigrated to Taiwan)?? On Sundays, a 2 or 3 block stretch of Zhongshan North Road becomes “Little Philippines”.

I wouldn’t call them “ghettos” like during the Holocaust, but if you are referring to Chinatown type places (enclaves), you could start there. And remember the veteran’s families that used to populate Xinyi District? What were those but Han Ghettos in the middle of downtown Taipei - and I remember the controversies when the city bulldozed them

I don’t know where you might classify as a “tough neighborhood” like the inner cities in the US. I’ve been told Sanchong is as rough as it gets because there is a large Triad presence there - but then, I do not know Sanchong well at all. I happen to have many friends whose families live in / come from Sanchong, and that sample actually gives me the opposite impression

60

You obviously know little to nothing about the history of white trash, rednecks and hillbillies in America. What, do you think those are terms of affection? The persecution of such people starts at least in the mid-seventeenth century with Cromwell’s purges of Catholic Ireland. Such people (as well as the urban poor in other parts of the British Isles) were sent to the American colonies and also the West Indies, where about 50% died in the first year due to a combination of disease, tropical heat (hence the term redneck – from the sunburn) and being worked to death. Later, in the U.S., such people were often chased off, or cheated out of, their land by various industries (such as mining) or rich farmers, or just generally given a rough time.

Many of the Scots who ended up in Canada and elsewhere ended up there as a direct result of the Highland Clearances.

So no, there is a long history of discrimination against poor whites too.[/quote]

Good point. But the gap between discrimination of Scots and Catholics in the 17th to early 20th centuries to the present isn’t a convincing argument to me or most anyone else in the real world that the white underclass are currently and regularly discriminated against to warrant a sympathy vote. I am wrong that they don’t have a long history of discrimination, but that history has been discontinued. The white underclass racism against well, anyone not white, the mid- and upper-class racism against the lower classes in Asia, and the Thai lower class racism against non-Thai SE Asians is going on right now, and these are the times that most of us here were raised in unless you’re over 60 - which is why it’s pertinent to our stereotypes today, and thus pertinent to this thread. I’m sure you’d agree that “modern” midwest and southern racists does not equal discriminated scots and irish immigrants, just like 18 year old black youth does not equal former slave, or even discriminated black in the 60’s.[/quote]

I’m sure the discrimination against “white trash” is minor, but I’m sure it still exists. I’m sure you’d be politely given the cold shoulder in certain circles if you had any one named Billy Bob in your family. People often say America is a society without classes, and it’s certainly nothing like other countries, but it does exist.

The Chief: Mostly economic, though also ethnic/religious to a degree in the case of Irish and Scots.

I’d recommend reading “The Redneck Manifesto” by Jim Goad. If nothing else, he’s hilarious.