You don’t think that even when a teacher is teaching A-A-Apple, they aren’t passing on other information to students passively? That students have worth… that foreigners are not scary and that they are real people who care and want to be cared about just like them…
Imagine if that message came from someone whose ethnicity is still tied to a lot of negative, dehumanizing ideas.
Anyone who knows anything about education knows that not all teaching has to do with what is in a textbook or on a syllabus. That’s why it’s particularly dangerous to turn a class over to someone who has no genuine interest in teaching or in working with children. But that is another thread.
As far as not teaching them about other cultures, what on earth does your school do every December? Talk about the weather? Spend October talking about animals?
While not everyone is planning to go overseas, you can assume that a great proportion of them are learning English to do more than to practice it with other Taiwanese people.
Dude, you just described the average buxiban. Most teachers in Taiwan only stay for 1-2 years. Most kindergartens have 3 to 4 age levels in addition to the buxiban grade levels. And they do come from all sorts of places. There’s a chance that they’ll be exposed to different accents, nationalities, and ethnicities…provided the school doesn’t get hung up on one single one being the only one for their school.
Well, now I’m confused. Before you said that small schools didn’t get the leeway to hire without considering “good business practice”, but now you’re saying that small schools will take anyone? Then what’s the problem with not knowing how to hire indiscriminantly? What you describe sounds pretty indiscriminant to me.
I am well aware of the common saying. I adjusted it to reflect that no matter what you say, you’re still talking out of your ass. Don’t flatter yourself into thinking that you’re correcting me. I’ve been using my own version for many years now.[/quote]
Maybe schools aren’t hiring you because of your attitude. It probably has nothing to do with the color of your skin.[/quote]
Ah, “the attitude” thing. This is the sister belief of blacks are hostile when they speak about personal expriences. Funkymonkey, just admit to yourself that you hold some attitude yourself about people of color when it comes to them being vocal about being treated less than a white person.[/quote]
So this is a “black” and “white” thing then?
You JUST wrote:[quote]
Oh give me a fawkin break. Life isn’t black and white.[/quote]
I am well aware of the common saying. I adjusted it to reflect that no matter what you say, you’re still talking out of your ass. Don’t flatter yourself into thinking that you’re correcting me. I’ve been using my own version for many years now.[/quote]
Maybe schools aren’t hiring you because of your attitude. It probably has nothing to do with the color of your skin.[/quote]
Fill in the blank:
You can create an accurate perception of my entire personality and work ethics through a single post because _____
Let’s not go down the road of forum psychoanalysis. You don’t want to play that game with me.
Yup. If they are backed into a corner they sure will. Ask the Nigerian teachers in San Xia. From what you’re telling me, he’s probably not a top choice. I wouldn’t know if he’s any good. He never showed up for the interview.
[quote]Then what’s the problem with not knowing how to hire indiscriminantly?
What you describe sounds pretty indiscriminant to me.[/quote][/quote]
Well, you can’t always get what you want…for us it’s ability to manage a classroom and teach the material; for others it may be to have the “look.”
Put simply, owners in the sticks anyway many times are forced to take who they can get.
BTW, we have been VERY fortunate to get good teachers.
That is a very low blow. :fume: I don’t think you know enough about me or my school to say that.[/quote]
Did I say that about you? To paraphrase other posters, “Don’t make it personal.” If you know it’s not true about you, then why think that it applies to you?[/quote]
I’m also a buxiban owner. I’ve hired a CBC teacher, an African-American teacher and a white male Canadian teacher. I’m not some sort of noble exception, either. I know a lot of other foreign buxiban owners, and trust me, as a majority they don’t give a hoot what colour a person’s skin is, or what their gender is. I’d bet the ranch that jdsmith is no different. If he had a teacher who showed up on time, took interest in his /her job and performed to expectations, he’d be thanking the high heavens, no matter what the teacher’s race was. Same goes for me. I’m not hiring now, but I’d hire another overseas Chinese or black teacher in a flash. I discriminate, but on character, experience, and attitude, not on gender or race. Facial tattoos and exotic piercings would probably be a deal-breaker, though.
I think the problem is being perpetuated by assumptions people make. School owners assume that parents prefer white teachers to those of other skin hues. Foreigners make the same assumption about Taiwanese in general. How many Taiwanese parents would really choose one school over another because their child gets to be taught by a skinny white teacher instead of a cuddly black one? I am not involved in the business at all, but I really find it hard to believe that either skin colour or body shape is a significant factor in how parents choose a school. An exception could be in the case of ABC/CBC/BBCs. I can imagine that some parents might suspect that they are Taiwanese masquerading as native English teachers. In that case, the school should make the effort to persuade the parents otherwise.
Similarly the North American/British accent thing. How many children or parents either know or care what shade of English accent the teacher speaks? How many really think the North American version is somehow superior to the British one? And it is not really true that American English pronunciation is the norm in Taiwan. Listen to the English Taiwanese people speak - it is shades of trans-Atlantic.
There really isn’t all that much difference between American and British standard Englishes anyway. You might start to get complaints if a teacher has a noticeable Yorkshire or Scottish accent - or an Appalachian hillbilly one for that matter. A teacher should be teaching at least an approximaton one of the standard Englishes - including Australian/NZ/South African within reason - except in the unlikely situation that a student actually requires a Scottish, Ulster, Indian or whatever accent (e.g. because they are going to study or work in those places). I can talk Cockney, Bristol, Yorkshire and Jamaican but when I am teaching I teach standard British or American English depending on what the students want. Note: just because one is British does not mean one cannot teach American English, or vice-versa.
[quote]Fill in the blank:
You can create an accurate perception of my entire personality and work ethics _____[/quote]
because I have met you in person, had many chats in TEIT and I found you to be possibly, next to Bassman, the most serious, dedicated and well prepared teacher I have ever met in Taiwan.
not to mention professional.
You have been dealt a very shitty stick and I only wish you could’ve hooked up with us.
Guess that means you won’t be hiring truant any time soon…
It’s always good to hear that some people don’t sacrifice quality over making a few extra bucks or cater to racism so they can have a few more students…
Although I am interested in hearing from Tainan Cowboy and funkymonkey of any concrete examples of a school losing significant money because they hired someone who was not young, thin, and/or white since they seem adamant to support the idea that it’s true (and good business practice).
I’ve given my own personal examples to the contrary and if you wish to continue refuting my opinion, I expect a bit more support than “that’s just the way things are.”
[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]
I am much more sympathetic to a person who is stoic than a person who is blaming a badly going job hunt entirely on racism. I"ve heard nice things about you and I respect your ability as a teacher, but in your posts here you sound like you’re whining and passing blame. I don’t believe that’s what’s in your heart, but that’s how it sounds to me.[/quote]
I really resent the fact that you post such a statement about Imaniou. She has withheld her ground here in a far more respectable manner as well as had far more patience that I have when it comes to dealing with the racist attitudes of Taiwan. Stoic is not too far off from being apathic in my book. [/quote]
I’m just calling it like I see it. I haven’t seen ImaniOU “withholding” her ground or being patient when it comes to racial issues. She’s been quick to point the finger and call other posters racists because they believe hiring blacks can cost buxiban’s students.
In most other areas I respect ImaniOU’s posts, but on this issue I don’t think she handles herself in all that respectable a manner. Sorry.
As for “stoic” not being far from “apathetic”… well, believe what you will. I think its the quiet, stoic people who through their long-suffering let those with open hearts and minds see just how ridiculous their racial views are. The agitators and complainers are the ones that help reinforce negative stereotypes.
You have empathy for ImaniOU, and that’s great, but she’s set off quite a lot of people on the race issue by the stance she takes. I suggest she re-evalute her approach to posting on the matter because I think she’s not accomplishing what she wants. I think she’d have a lot more allies if she didn’t make enemies on this issue.
I’ve talked with a lot of racial minorities (the term fits, because its the nature of a majority race and culture which causes the marginalization of the cultural experience of other ethnicities that you are mentioning) about the race issue. Some of them come off sounding like whiners, sound hostile, or sound like they’re passing blame. Why? Because that’s what they’re doing. It’s the ones that don’t sound like that, though, that have the power to affect change. At least with me.
It’s not so much what you say, as how you say it.
I don’t believe that at all.
Sorry if you’ve hit your limit, but that’s not my problem. Neither your nor ImaniOU’s opinions are more important than anyone else’s here. And before you started throwing around the “narrow minded” label I suggest you check your own head and make sure you understand the feelings of a race and gender you have never been.
Once again, I would love it if teachers in Taiwan were hired purely on merit and that race or appearance didn’t matter a whit. That would be lovely. It would be wonderful if all buxiban owners could hire anyone and not have to even consider the matter since all the parents were enlightened concerning the race issue.
I do believe that teachers can do something, and I believe awareness is a key to that. But if people who are trying to give honest input are labeled racist for stating the mindsets of many buxiban owners and school managers, that’s not going to help anything.
I have nothing against ImaniOU’s position (unless it comes to legislation), but I have a problem with how she’s handling the argument. If you believe that makes me the enemy, well, there’s not much I can do about that.
[quote=“jdsmith”][quote]Fill in the blank:
You can create an accurate perception of my entire personality and work ethics _____[/quote]
because I have met you in person, had many chats in TEIT and I found you to be possibly, next to Bassman, the most serious, dedicated and well prepared teacher I have ever met in Taiwan.
not to mention professional.
You have been dealt a very shitty stick and I only wish you could’ve hooked up with us.
And that is the truth.
[/quote]
Honestly, I would have loved to work with you if the timing had been better, but unfortunately, I am committed to seeing things through, including my contract with a school that had no future to offer me nor appreciation for what I did for them, even at the expense of getting a good job. Well… not a dedication to my school, but to my students. But I had told them that already that I was committed to my kids.
But again, that wasn’t directed at you, but at the person who has yet to do anything more than throw out opinions with no support to back it up.
Just in case you haven’t worked it out yet, funkymonkey, I meant you.
I think the argument ImaniOU and Nama are making about the whole parents-taking-their-kids-to-another place issue just being in the imaginations of school owners is legitimate.
I believe there is some truth to the fear some owners have, simply on the basis of racist Taiwanese parents I have met here. But maybe that anecdotal evidence doesn’t really mean anything. Maybe the same racist parents I’ve met wouldn’t bat an eyelash when they saw that their kids’ foreign teacher was dark skinned.
That’s something that would be good to find out. But whether or not that is the case, it is certainly the perception of many owners and managers. And here, perception is just as important as reality.
Now, other than debunking (or validating) this way of thinking, what can be done? I’m not a school owner, so I can’t make a decision about hiring someone. All I know to do is teach the students I am in charge of about racism as it is appropriate in class and politely voice my disagreement with racist views I come in contact with. Those are the things I know to do.
If there were a way to make more of a difference, I’d be glad to do more— short of marching around from buxiban to buxiban with posters and a bandana.
I’m all for changing things. I just don’t like when people get called racists for voicing disagreement or stating what they think is at the heart of the problem.
[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]
I am much more sympathetic to a person who is stoic than a person who is blaming a badly going job hunt entirely on racism. I"ve heard nice things about you and I respect your ability as a teacher, but in your posts here you sound like you’re whining and passing blame. I don’t believe that’s what’s in your heart, but that’s how it sounds to me.[/quote]
I really resent the fact that you post such a statement about Imaniou. She has withheld her ground here in a far more respectable manner as well as had far more patience that I have when it comes to dealing with the racist attitudes of Taiwan. Stoic is not too far off from being apathic in my book. [/quote]
I’m just calling it like I see it. I haven’t seen ImaniOU “withholding” her ground or being patient when it comes to racial issues. She’s been quick to point the finger and call other posters racists because they believe hiring blacks can cost buxiban’s students.
In most other areas I respect ImaniOU’s posts, but on this issue I don’t think she handles herself in all that respectable a manner. Sorry.[/quote]
You couldn’t be more wrong. Imaniou a marjority of the time stays out of race discussions. IMO she is arguing here, because in essence it is not really about race but because she is so passionate about teaching. That is a very very frustrating thing to deal with when you are very well versed in your work, very passionate and concerned about the quality of your work and how it affects your children to only have your race, something that is beyond your control, used as a factor to prevent you from advancing and make a living. I would guess that it wouldn’t bother her in the States, but when you are living aboard you have to factor in other issues that make this more pressing and stressful.
[quote]
I’ve talked with a lot of racial minorities (the term fits, because its the nature of a majority race and culture which causes the marginalization of the cultural experience of other ethnicities that you are mentioning) about the race issue. Some of them come off sounding like whiners, sound hostile, or sound like they’re passing blame. Why? Because that’s what they’re doing. It’s the ones that don’t sound like that, though, that have the power to affect change. At least with me. [/quote]
Maybe it is with you. I don’t know what country you are from, but I can say from exprience that in the US, it is in the ethos for people to listen to ‘minorities’ in the context of whining,bitching and passing blame. We(US) don’t have the maturity yet to listen to others expriences of racism and allow it to be a truth. Hell, a majority of the time, people aren’t listening. They are hearing the other person while preparing in their minds a retort.
I think that if you keep hearing the same complaint over and over yet their is exsistance of the complainer trying to make headway, there is truth to that complaint.
[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]I am much more sympathetic to a person who is stoic than a person who is blaming a badly going job hunt entirely on racism.[/quote] No, I didn’t blame it entirely on racism. I lost out on three job offers because I was still working with my school and I was not able to commit to the job before my contract ended. I mean physically, I could have as all I needed was to give a 2-week notice, but morally, I could not do that to my students.
But I still believe that race was an issue. Especially when a few responses specified that and when I received more replies after removing my photo from my resume. Unless you’re going to blame my looks on that. Wouldn’t put it past some people looking for something else to blame rather than admitting that perhaps race was a factor in my long search for employment…
I wanted to believe the same things when a school would tell me that the parents would prefer to have a white teacher… oh no, we’d hire you in a minute, but “it’s what the parents want”. Come to think of it, wouldn’t saying that hiring discrimination being a necessary evil so that schools can continue to prosper be a way of passing blame for being weak-spined? That’s how it sounds to me.
[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]I’m just calling it like I see it. I haven’t seen ImaniOU “withholding” her ground or being patient when it comes to racial issues. She’s been quick to point the finger and call other posters racists because they believe hiring blacks can cost buxiban’s students.
In most other areas I respect ImaniOU’s posts, but on this issue I don’t think she handles herself in all that respectable a manner. Sorry.[/quote]
The fact that I have remained positive over five years despite the racism I face on an almost daily basis gives me the right to blow up every once in while. This just happens to be one of those times. To hear someone trivialize all the shit I’ve put up with as being a matter of hanging my attitude at the ramp before coming. Or of passing blame. If I were completely accountable for what I’ve had to go through, trust me, I would admit it. I often admit when I am wrong and I am quick to see things from other people’s points of view. As long as they give valid reasons for seeing it their way. Not many people do, though, when it comes to race in Taiwan. Passing it off as being my problem or something that just is, is not something I accept. Just as I would not accept someone shrugging their shoulders at any other injustice in the world. Would you?
Gandhi is a very admirable person for his stoicism and pacifism.
I am not like Gandhi. Nor would you be if you had to undergo the harsh discrimination that I have to endure…
Imagine people apologizing for your skin color as if it were an embarrassment. Where people would argue that you are not a native English speaker because they insist you are from Africa and lying about your nationality. Imagine learning that a school that had just told you they had no job openings was advertising for teachers and when you reply to them online, they tell you again that they have no jobs. Then imagine that a week later, you hear about someone getting an interview with them the day after they turned you down. Imagine being led on about a job, sharing your ideas in an interview of how you would sell the program to parents and seeing how your ideas are being implemented on the day the person tells you he doesn’t have a job for you. Then imagine that your job is given away to the white teachers because you had believed you would be working for this person. Imagine not only bringing in students to a school, but getting personal thank you’s from families for the work you’ve done with their kids, creating a program which has shown major improvement in students, setting up a mentoring system for sharing ideas with your co-workers, putting your whole heart and your own time and money to improve yourself as a teacher, and single-handedly developing a full-assessment system and planning guide for a program that was only a matter of coloring worksheets when you took it over…only to have your supervisor inform you on your last days that you were only seconds away from being fired the whole time you worked there, just to let you know that you weren’t worth anything to the school after five years of dedication.
Feeling frustrated yet?
Wait till I tell you about what happened in all those hours outside of work.
The fact that in spite of all these things happening to me, I have set my eyes up high on the good in my life. But I am human and sometimes my eyes slip down to the shit I have to go through. I don’t apologize for venting every once in a while.
I only argue with those who are satisified with letting the status quo slide by as long as they don’t get any on their shoes. Is it wrong for me to have issues with those who only wish to inform on something we already know about without doing anything to change it for the better?
With those who say those who are upset by injustice simply forgot to leave their imperialistic attitudes back home where they belong?
Who say that racism is good for business?
I do not call people racist unless they present themselves as believing these things themselves. I only point out that saying such things as above is to condone racism. And in condoning, excusing, justifying, or as you are wont to say “passing blame” in racism, you allow such bigotry to continue.
[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]I’ve talked with a lot of racial minorities (the term fits, because its the nature of a majority race and culture which causes the marginalization of the cultural experience of other ethnicities that you are mentioning) about the race issue. Some of them come off sounding like whiners, sound hostile, or sound like they’re passing blame. Why? Because that’s what they’re doing. It’s the ones that don’t sound like that, though, that have the power to affect change. At least with me.
It’s not so much what you say, as how you say it.[/quote]
Why should I have to give you an opinion? Shouldn’t you have one of your own? How would you like for us to sound in order to affect change in your attitude?
[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]Once again, I would love it if teachers in Taiwan were hired purely on merit and that race or appearance didn’t matter a whit. That would be lovely. It would be wonderful if all buxiban owners could hire anyone and not have to even consider the matter since all the parents were enlightened concerning the race issue.
I do believe that teachers can do something, and I believe awareness is a key to that. But if people who are trying to give honest input are labeled racist for stating the mindsets of many buxiban owners and school managers, that’s not going to help anything.[/quote]
So here comes the question of the day:
“What are you doing to change people’s perspectives about race?”
Not many people can handle answering this question directly so don’t worry about disappointing me if you can’t either.
Some of you appear to have lost the original point .
Should employers be allowed to advertise on such racist grounds?
Obviously any company that does should not be in business, especially schools.
Do they even check out these North American, white ‘teachers’.
Sorry, I didn’t mean that to be you. It certainly looks like that particular statement was aimed at you since you are in a job hunt and you are on this thread, but this specific comment was meant for someone in general.
I’m sure race is an issue for you, as well as your demand for a position where you can actually teach. I know if you lowered your standards you could find work faster, but you’re willing to wait for something better- frustrating as that may be.
Some of my comments were directed at you (when I mentioned you by name), but that one was not.
I don’t deny the problem.
It’s not a necessary evil. My stance is that those managers and owners that hire underqualified white teachers over better qualified people of color are taking the path of least resistance and that the moral thing to do would be hire the best qualified person even though race may turn a few parents off from the school. In the long run, that’s best for society, though there is a legitimate fear of short term financial loss.
I don’t know you in real life. I only know you from Forumosa. Most of your posts, particularly the teaching section, are positive and worthwhile. It’s on the race issue that you tend to blow up, and I don’t fault you for it. But I think you sometimes blow up at the wrong people and hurt your own cause.
I think you jumped the gun on that on this thread. I don’t think any of the posters were really saying that this problem is something that is, was, and always will be. We’re describing it. You called it all ignorance and racism on the part of the managers and owners, and others disagreed and said that it was buisness practice. But without a value judgement that the business practice was good or unchangeable.
You don’t know that. I can’t say that I would be stoic, either, but I believe I would. There are people in a similar position to yours who are models of restraint and civility. These are role models to me, and if I faced what you and they face, I’d hope to live as they do.
Now, I don’t face the same kind of racism you do, nor the same level. But racism isn’t the only problem in this world, and I have faced hardships of my own. So, when I say you could do better for yourself by not blowing up on this extremely important issue, I’m not talking about something I am ignorant of or have not experience with myself.
[quote]Imagine people apologizing for your skin color as if it were an embarrassment…
…only to have your supervisor inform you on your last days that you were only seconds away from being fired the whole time you worked there, just to let you know that you weren’t worth anything to the school after five years of dedication.[/quote]
That’s the stick jdsmith was talking to you about, and I followed the Journey to Employment thread. I sympathize completely. I don’t say empathize because I don’t have the shared experience in the race related matters, although I can share some of your experience about not getting rewarded or even appreciated for good work at some of my previous schools.
As I’ve said multiple times, I agree with your point of view that this is a bad situation all the way around.
I’m not asking you to apologize for that. That’s human.
Not wrong. But not productive either. What is the value in taking up the issue with them the way you have been doing it?
You took issue with several posters on this thread, none of whom ever suggested that the status quo was acceptable. They didn’t try to inform you on something you already know about, they disagreed with your assertion that it was all racism and ignorance. They said it was business practice. They did NOT come out in favor of that business practice, yet you responded as if they had.
That is exactly what I took issue with you on.
I agree that this argument is one of resignation. “Yeah, things suck here, but we can’t do anything about it and we can’t judge another culture.” I don’t agree with that line any more than you.
But nobody in this thread condoned, excused, or justified racism. You took their description of the system to be their approval of it. You made a few errors in judgement, and people took those errors personally.
Who on this thread said the system was good? Most have come out entirely against it.
Who said my attitude needed changing? Personally, I think I have a pretty good and fairly PC attitude towards racism.
I have my own opinion. I’ve stated quite a bit about my opinion on this thread.
It’s not about how I would like you to sound, it’s about how you want to sound to others and what kind of influence you want to have. I’m just saying that it sure looks to me like you’re failing to influence others the way you likely would want to influence them. Since I care about this issue, I’d rather you be more effective.
[quote]So here comes the question of the day:
“What are you doing to change people’s perspectives about race?”[/quote]
I already stated two things that I have been doing:
When I teach, I try to pass on understanding about racial equality.
I politely rebutt racist attitudes I come in contact with.
But, see, that is exactly the wrong way to go about asking the question. What good does it do anyone to smugly ask a question and expect the person you ask to not be able to give an answer? And what if this person honestly had every good desire to help, but you left him or her with that— you don’t know how to answer my question. That’s not really good, now is it?
Instead of doing that, you should offer solutions. Something like: Teach by example. Show others through your interactions with them and others that you believe in racial equality. Show them that your race is just as capable of excellence, goodness, and achievement as any other, and that you respect every other race’s ability for the same. Counsel through trust. Establish meaningful relationships and build trust. Then as people come to value your opinion and character, share your beliefs about racial equality. Avoid contention. Don’t cast blame or argue over race. Don’t call names or label people. People resent that, even if the label is accurate. No matter how right you are, you won’t win any arguments in this manner. Be politely vocal. When the opportunity comes for public discussion and decision-making, take part. Bring up issues where there is a lack of racial parity and help propose solutions to specific plans. Do so without making accusations.
I thought on this at around 5am, so I’m certainly forgetting some obvious stuff. But my point is to not tell people off for not doing anything-- instead convince them that there are specific things that they can do. Or better yet, help them convince themselves.
True, but a discussion of whether racism in school hiring practices is or should be legal is germane to whether or not advertisers should allow the ads or not.
As I said earlier, I think the answer should be “yes” for private businesses, but certainly not for any government agency.
If a school is looking for a specific racial profile and will turn down applicants that don’t fit what they want, advertising with that information will save everyone time. Truth in advertising.
Except, here it seems to be a business practice based on sales. Sort of like hiring hot girls wearing sexy outfits to sell betelnut. If it attracts customers then it is logical for businesses to hire according to what sells the most.
There are other issues to consider, though. Like whether or not the whole thing is just a false assumption on the part of managers and owners. Or that the moral thing to do would be to take the financial hit for the sake of society.
But in the end, I think people have the right to be racist jerks or lack a moral backbone and to even advertise it. Of course, consumers and teachers have the right to choose not to patronize or be employed but such people— and that should be the pressure that corrects the injustice.
But that’s just my opinion.
[quote]Do they even check out these North American, white ‘teachers’.
This must be paedophile heaven for some.[/quote]
They should check everyone, not just the North American, white teachers.
[quote=“ImaniOU”]But again, that wasn’t directed at you, but at the person who has yet to do anything more than throw out opinions with no support to back it up.
Just in case you haven’t worked it out yet, funkymonkey, I meant you.[/quote]
Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn. You lost all credibility in this thread when you began to label others as being racist and ignorant. You don’t seem to possess the maturity needed to discuss this matter. Numerous posters have tried to help you understand the ESL industry here, but you seem determined to ignore them.
It probably has nothing to do with the color of your skin.[/quote]
This is the sister belief of blacks are hostile when they speak about personal expriences. Funkymonkey, just admit to yourself that you hold some attitude yourself about people of color when it comes to them being vocal about being treated less than a white person.[/quote]
:bravo:
