Ratting out other foreigners

[quote=“Mick”]
I actually misread your name and thought it was anther poster “mallard” who I think used reductio ad absurdum as a debating technique in the 911 thread to great effect, very funny stuff. Although I think some of the other posters took the posts at face value, .[/quote]

hah! an interesting theory but surely wrong. no one could be that dedicated or absurd. There was in particular a disturbing story about his uncle that i can’t see making up.

[quote=“Whole Lotta Lotta”][quote]But lets says it’s just a local doing their job inspecting Kindies and busting them and getting illegal teachers deported. You’d have no problems with that? Because the Education Dept does do that from time to time.
[/quote]

When it is a police man or somebody from the FAP on a random check, they are just doing their job. Maybe they even have sympathy with the foreigner and don’t really want to do what they have to do. When it is a foreigner ratting out another foreigner, it is a whole different matter.[/quote]

So if I was to take a job with the FAP you’d have no problems with that then. Thats good to know.

Please keep discussion of kindy laws to that thread, thanks.

I have heard some foreigners say they are rude to police officers when they pull them over. I am not. They are just doing their job and will be worse to the next foreigner, if you piss them off. I don’t speak Chinese to them though
:sunglasses:.

I had always thought that Ritalin was some kind of downer given to hyperactive kids. Looks like I was wrong.

These are the first two paragraphs of the article in the link; sounds like socially accepted meth:

Methylphenidate (MPH), which is manufactured under the brand name of Ritalin, is a stimulant. Ritalin produces pharmacological effects similar to those of cocaine and amphetamines, and it is prescribed to treat attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHA), attention deficit disorder (ADD) and other conditions. Unlike other stimulants, however, MPH has not been produced by drug dealers in homemade labs, likely because it is an inexpensive, readily available medication with a prescription, even though it is a controlled substance.

A growing number of incidents of abuse have been associated with teens and young adults using MPH for its stimulant effects: appetite suppression, wakefulness, increased attentiveness, increased focus and euphoria. It is being used for appetite suppression in many teenagers; college students are taking advantage of its stimulant affects to help them stay focused and awake for those long nights of studying. The drug has street names such as “Vitamin R,” “R-Ball” and the “Smart Drug.” It is inexpensive to purchase from friends or dealers for anywhere from 50 cents and up to $5 per pill.

livestrong.com/article/13961-ritalin-abuse/

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“sandman”]Well, isn’t it YOU who keeps bringing up the “we foreigners should stick together” schtick? Maybe it was some other poster. If so, sorry. My point is that Taiwanese are FAR less foreign to me than Americans, so therefore I’d be more inclined to stick together with Taiwanese than Americans – if I felt the need to “stick together” with any particular nationality.

[quote]Why not have compassion for a stranger, if they are not really harming anyone?
[/quote]
But they ARE! If you happen agree with the government’s take that kiddies shouldn’t be learning English. :wink: Who am I to believe? Government education experts or angry 20-something backpackers on their unique Asian sojourn?[/quote]

That’s funny. I never thought of you as one of those “I trust the government” types. Kindy teachers hurting the kids. Yep, it’s a psycho bloodbath out there. I wonder why all those parents are so in love with their foreign kindy teachers, who are harming their children? Strange. Let’s ask the government.[/quote]

Amen, it is indeed a psycho bloodbath out there, but we don’t seem to have the attention span to address the problem in a sustained way.

We seemed to come together as a community and focus on this growing problem back during the John Mark Karr Crisis. For those of you who weren’t here or weren’t following the news, John Mark Karr is the man who confessed to killing Jon Benet Ramsey. Mr. Karr came to Taiwan and almost got a job here.

For more information:

Had he had the time and opportunity to do so, he might have confessed to killing still more children. In all likelihood, Mr. Karr had very poor Chinese skills, so he might not have been able to understand news reports about recently murdered children. That being the case, he might well have taken to confessing to the murder of living children, which would have been worse, because it could have scarred those kids for life.

For more information:

Contemporaneously with the Crisis, someone in our community came up with a set of criteria for determining whether a foreigner was a danger to the children. The criteria were as follows:

If the person in question is

(1) over forty years of age;

(2) white;

(3) male;

(4) overweight;

(5) sweating profusely (i.e., “constantly looks like they’ve just got out of a very hot bath”);

(6) while teaching “cute” Asian kids;

then he’s probably a danger to the children.

For more insights:


Additionally, the Minister of Health has recently reported on statistical studies that show that single people have a greater tendency to suffer from mental illness than married people. So I submit that it’s an added warning sign if this over-forty, sweating, cute-Asian-kid-teaching white guy is also

(7) single.

For more detailed evidence:
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003470148

But as the Who said, “The sun shines, and people forget.” We forget, we ignore the problem, hoping it will go away, and it periodically comes back to haunt us. Let’s not get fooled again. Let’s set some real standards this time. I propose the following litmus test: Anyone having more than four of the above-designated characteristics should not be allowed to teach kids on this island. Full stop. (As luck would have it, I’m off the hook: I’m a single, white male, and I’m over forty, but I’m not overweight, I hardly ever sweat (and when I do, I don’t sweat profusely), and the Asian kids I teach are not “cute.”)

Now of course, the above negativing standards don’t foreclose the imposition of affirmative ones. For example, I find the ideas of sandman and some of the others very worthy, viz., that prospective teachers of children have at least a DELTA diploma (preferably, though, an M.A. in Applied Linguistics), at least a B.Ed. (preferably an M.Ed.), possess teacher certification in their home country, have at least an M.A. (preferably a Ph.D.) in either developmental or child psychology, and have attained at least an Intermediate (preferably Advanced) level of Chinese fluency on the HSK. I think these standards should be gradually introduced over, say, an eight-to-fifteen year period. That should have the added incidental benefit of eventually ridding us of the Young Backpacker Scourge, for the most part at least.

Additionally, police criminal-record checks can miss a spot or two, since they only cover, well, criminal records, so I propose that a thorough background check be conducted of all prospective teachers of children, on the order of the kind the U.S. military conducts prior to granting a Top Secret clearance.

We need to implement the above standards with all deliberate speed. Otherwise, as the global economy continues its collapse, we can look forward to more and more creepy middle-aged white men sweating all over the children, more and more footloose-and-fancy-free twenty-something backpackers gallivanting around and taking jobs away from real teachers, and more and more John Mark Karrs turning up on our shores and confessing to God knows what atrocities.

[quote=“aooga”]There is a case right now in Taichung where a teacher has been fired from his job, and had some pay docked. After trying many routes to solve the problem (including the CLA labor board), he was still without his money. He decided to open a lawsuit aginst the school for unlawful dismissal. (he refused to take on some extra work). When that failed he resorted to obtaining pictures of a new teacher he didn’t know and using them in conjunction with his own picture to push the school to pay. The result, he was thanked for providing evidence of an english kindergarten being illegally taught by foriegners, let off for his own transgressions, the new guy deported and gone within days barred from returning for 3 years.

After talking to this person who has been in taiwan and has done that very job I was shocked to find out the he really thought that it was the proper thing to do. The new guy who was in love with his taiwanese girl, in a gigging rock band, living with his best friend after being years apart. heart broken, band split, friends wrenched apart. the guy is on the plane today to go and live jobless with his parents.

There are times when a guy can be really pissed at his school. But implicating a fellow foriegner! :fume: That really burns me up! (been here for 11 years never heard that one)We have a moral responsibility to think before we ruin lives. Sure the guys not off to the hangman or anything but the rat told me that he intentionally didn’t give the guy a heads up because he thought it would help his case :fume:

Question: DOES THIS GUY HAVE THE RIGHT TO PULL THIS???[/quote]

THIS IS TAIWAN

[quote=“Mazer”]To confirm, yes the rat is the same guy who took his ex-girlfriend to court (I’m not sure if it’s once or twice, but anyways) for the sole purpose of maintaining an illusion of relevance in her life, really.

He is a boil on the bum of Taichung, and seems to love doing this sort of thing to feed his sense of self-importance. I expect his antics will continue like this, until he pisses off the wrong person. Then with any luck he’ll leave and Taiwan will be a better place for his passing.
[/quote]

I can only guess who it might be and I won’t say it out loud. Maybe it will be asked at the next quiz night at the Londoner for discussion.

[quote=“Whole Lotta Lotta”][quote]
Whole Lotta Lotta wrote:
Quote:
But lets says it’s just a local doing their job inspecting Kindies and busting them and getting illegal teachers deported. You’d have no problems with that? Because the Education Dept does do that from time to time.

When it is a police man or somebody from the FAP on a random check, they are just doing their job. Maybe they even have sympathy with the foreigner and don’t really want to do what they have to do. When it is a foreigner ratting out another foreigner, it is a whole different matter.

So if I was to take a job with the FAP you’d have no problems with that then. Thats good to know.
[/quote]
I have heard some foreigners say they are rude to police officers when they pull them over. I am not. They are just doing their job and will be worse to the next foreigner, if you piss them off. I don’t speak Chinese to them though
:sunglasses:.[/quote]

Actually speaking Chinese and apologising is the best way, I have NEVER been fined on any of my illegal right-turns or illegal left turns where I got waved over or when I didn’t bring my license with me (not something I do too often anyway, they were the usual soft spots for catching people). The cops usually have a little chat with me instead.

Great stuff, a pub quiz on how to rat out illegals… and who is doing what to who.

Should get some TV cameras in for that one.

I have an addendum to this whole story. It turns out the foreigner who did the turning in lost his lawsuit with his old school. It was also found out that he lied in court about the date the pictures were taken. The pictures were thrown out as evidence and the plaintiff may face deportation for lying in court :roflmao: . The deportee may receive an apology from the government and be allowed back in the country.
This just goes the perils of getting the law involved in anything here. Stay away from people into having to many things to do with the police and who take the litigious route to solve their problems. They will only make problems for themselves in the long run.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

THAT I’d like to see.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

THAT I’d like to see.[/quote]
The operative word her is may.

Even IF the government admits that it deported the guy based on false evidence (a big IF already), it’s unlikely that they would ever apologize publicly. And, after all, the guy WAS teaching kindy, which IS illegal, right? From the government’s perspective, they have absolutely nothing to apologize about.

The traditional Chinese legal system starts by assuming that all parties are lying. It is then the judge’s responsibility to figure out what the truth is. So I suppose that the falsity or veracity of evidence wouldn’t be as much of a concern as in other systems of law.

[quote=“ironlady”]Even IF the government admits that it deported the guy based on false evidence (a big IF already), it’s unlikely that they would ever apologize publicly. And, after all, the guy WAS teaching kindy, which IS illegal, right? From the government’s perspective, they have absolutely nothing to apologize about.

The traditional Chinese legal system starts by assuming that all parties are lying. It is then the judge’s responsibility to figure out what the truth is. So I suppose that the falsity or veracity of evidence wouldn’t be as much of a concern as in other systems of law.[/quote]
There is a lot of truth to what you are saying. I wouldn’t hold my breath on the deportee coming back anytime soon. We would have to see the pictures in question, what exactly the guy was doing in them, and if they are able to prove the age of other people in the pictures.
The guy who lied in court is in trouble though.
I guess the moral of the story is that it is unwise to get the law too involved in any of your affairs :no-no: . It is also unwise to make enemies :no-no:.

It is impossible to convey through this medium the intense feelings of justice and satisfaction many people in Taichung will have upon learning about this turn of events.

Indeed, Karma seems to have dished out a fair share of comeuppance. :thumbsup:

Look, I’ve been here since the days when even blowing your nose wrong was illegal, yet you still could do most anything you wanted.

All of you old timers must have worked illegally from time to time. It was unavoidable. Your ARC at the time only covered on Branch of a multi-branch school. If I teacher had an emergency, you’d have to substitute for your co-worker.

Even the most reputable and trusted chain of English language schools do this. It is almost impossible to follow the letter of the law and live in Taiwan. In small towns, the police don’t even want to see illegal things…

Examples. You build a house. The Taiwan building code has a ridiculous rule that requires a useless balcony on the back of your house. What do all builders do? They build a “Hollywood set” balcony, photograph it and then extend the house. The police and fire regularly come to your building because you have a public business in it. It passes hands down every time!

Get your car inspected? You have those front and rear guards on the car. The inspection station measures your car too long. What do they do? They take off one guard, measure and photograph your car then put it back on. It’s obvious the the guards are a matched set and they are going back on the car again.
I was mistreated and cheated at a school for many years. Several times a year we’d have a misunderstanding and I’d use the power "I know what you are doing here is illegal and I can report you or I may let him know that “Da Family” is not happy and things happen when “Da Family” is not happy. I always recovered what was taken from me. I never thought of turning in another poor working slob like me trying to put bread on the table for his family. However, I got tired because I’m a bit too honost even by the us standards, so I got my work open work permit and dropped off the radar screen.

The point is… don’t be illegal but in some areas it’s very hard to do. And the states I’ll tell you. My company in the states, a computer mail order firm, would periodically get rid of display models. They are too old to sell but still usable. They had to be destroyed for tax purposes. Periodically they’d tell us that the computers would be in the dumpster. My boss thought I was too legal eagle to tell me of the salvage parties. Taiwan sure helped my development as a person.

This is exactly what I would say to some people posting here who say they have no sympathy for foreigners who get caught teaching illegally in Taiwan. If they have been here teaching for any length of time and teaching legally for one school the whole time, they are lucky.
I’d wager that most the people making such post have done something illegally and have never been caught for it.

There are some posting here who do not fully understand this.

More likely than not, but so what? Unless you know for sure they’d be whining if they were caught that doesn’t mean anything. Put another way, you have to know the rules of the game before you play, if you want to play.