Of course not. Surely if Russia sent a sizable force into Ukraine it would not be that difficult to prove it. Russia says they accidentally wondered over the border, the west says they were caught 30 miles in.
USA has CIA and mercs in Ukraine and there are even reports Muslim extremists being imported. I guess in is ok for the west to meddle in the Ukraine and surround Russia with the US\NATO missile defense system but not ok to defend itself from obvious outside aggression? The geopolitics is obviously more involved than this but yer not going to get it from the Washington Post or Fox news.
In a nutshell , Putin has thrown a monkey wrench into the Globalists expansion plans and has to be dealt with.[/quote]
Russia’s already invaded Ukraine by annexing Crimea. It is now seeking to turn eastern Ukraine into a land bridge so they can have access to Crimea by land with another invasion into eastern Ukraine.
I see very little evidence for CIA and mercs in Ukraine. I am sure there are CIA agents on the ground, it’s a hot spot and that’s what spies are for. I am not so sure about your claim for mercs. At the same time, Russia has its own spies in Ukraine, and they could have sticked to having mercs of their own operating in Ukraine, but Russia sent troops anyway.[/quote]
LOL. Annexed? Invaded? Seriously? There was all ready a Russian navel base and Russian forces there and the transition was done though a diplomatic and legal referendum with not a drop of blood being spilled . (much to the dismay of the west) The People who live there should the ones to decide their fate and not politicians half way cross the globe. Not to mention that I don’t think Russiaa wanted to relocate their Black Sea Fleet to make way for another US navel base.
[quote=“agentsmith”]
LOL. Annexed? Invaded? Seriously? There was all ready a Russian navel base and Russian forces there and the transition was done though a diplomatic and legal referendum with not a drop of blood being spilled . (much to the dismay of the west) The People who live there should the ones to decide their fate and not politicians half way cross the globe. Not to mention that I don’t think Russiaa wanted to relocate their Black Sea Fleet to make way for another US navel base.[/quote]
Referendum was done after Russian forces occupied areas outside of the Russian bases. If it really was a peaceful transition referendum should have been done first before Russian forces took over the whole of Crimea.
[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“agentsmith”]
LOL. Annexed? Invaded? Seriously? There was all ready a Russian navel base and Russian forces there and the transition was done though a diplomatic and legal referendum with not a drop of blood being spilled . (much to the dismay of the west) The People who live there should the ones to decide their fate and not politicians half way cross the globe. Not to mention that I don’t think Russiaa wanted to relocate their Black Sea Fleet to make way for another US navel base.[/quote]
Referendum was done after Russian forces occupied areas outside of the Russian bases. If it really was a peaceful transition referendum should have been done first before Russian forces took over the whole of Crimea.[/quote]
Your info is a little off. 90 percent were in favor of rejoining Russia. That means 90 percent did not want to be governed by the US installed tyrants . Ya think Kiev(US/CIA) would have let Crimea have a referendum? Over your dead bodies would have been the reply. So in reality, Putin might have pissed off the west but he saved a lot of lives.
[quote=“agentsmith”]
Your info is a little off. 90 percent were in favor of rejoining Russia. That means 90 percent did not want to be governed by the US installed tyrants . Ya think Kiev would have let Crimea have a referendum? Over your dead bodies would have been the reply. So in reality, Putin might have pissed off the west but he saved a lot of lives.[/quote]
No possibility of referendum justifies for an invasion? Russia’s not exactly the spokes country of letting people have their sovereignty referendums.
If people are overwhelmingly in favor of rejoining Russia, what was the hurry for Russian troops to move into Crimea before Crimean government completes their referendum. At that time and point the Ukrainian government hadn’t gotten their acts together to do anything that would threaten the safety of Crimea, not as if they would do so in the first place.
A democratic Ukraine in the end would much more likely allow Crimea and Donbass. After all, they did have referendums on other issues in the country. Since Putin came in office, what referendums did he allow, except the one that makes Chechen the official language of Chechen (why was there even a need for a referendum to take place for that to happen anyway?)
Invaded? What else would you call it? an “incursion?”
Navel? Seriously? So by extension, the US can annex Cuba since we have a “navel” base there?
Which was in direct violation of the 1994 treaty guaranteeing Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty?
And to most of the people in Ukraine and a large percentage of those in Crimea.
Fantastic. I will look forward to multiple referendums across the Russian Federation wherever there is a significant percentage of minorities.
So, Russian “interests” trump all here? I think that it is fascinating that you criticize the US for all manner of power plays and ignore the greatest power play since World War II (in Europe). Fascinating.
[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“agentsmith”]
Your info is a little off. 90 percent were in favor of rejoining Russia. That means 90 percent did not want to be governed by the US installed tyrants . Ya think Kiev would have let Crimea have a referendum? Over your dead bodies would have been the reply. So in reality, Putin might have pissed off the west but he saved a lot of lives.[/quote]
No possibility of referendum justifies for an invasion? Russia’s not exactly the spokes country of letting people have their sovereignty referendums.
If people are overwhelmingly in favor of rejoining Russia, what was the hurry for Russian troops to move into Crimea before Crimean government completes their referendum. At that time and point the Ukrainian government hadn’t gotten their acts together to do anything that would threaten the safety of Crimea, not as if they would do so in the first place.
A democratic Ukraine in the end would much more likely allow Crimea and Donbass. After all, they did have referendums on other issues in the country. Since Putin came in office, what referendums did he allow, except the one that makes Chechen the official language of Chechen (why was there even a need for a referendum to take place for that to happen anyway?)[/quote]
[quote]
Annexed? Yes. That just happened to Crimea.[/quote]
It was Ukraine than was annexed by the US and the people of Crimea wanted nothing to do with the Soro’s financed and CIA backed criminals or the austerity measures that awaited them.
Did Russian sent in ground forces ?
[quote]Navel? Seriously? So by extension, the US can annex Cuba since we have a “navel” base there[/quote]?
If Cuba’s population was 85 percent American you bet your ass they would be protected.
I don’t know much about that treaty but do really think America has room to beak off about violation of laws and respecting other countries sovereignty? Can you say double standard?
85 percent is not minority.
So, Russian “interests” trump all here? I think that it is fascinating that you criticize the US for all manner of power plays and ignore the greatest power play since World War II (in Europe). Fascinating.[/quote]
Again,double standards. Or maybe you Russia should just submit to Corporate America just because they are the “greatest country in the world.” Seriously, who the hell do you think you people are?
[quote=“agentsmith”]
Again,double standards. Or maybe you Russia should just submit to Corporate America just because they are the “greatest country in the world.” Seriously, who the hell do you think you people are?[/quote]
I’m actually as liberal as one can get. It is a rare occasion that fred smith and I agree on something, so when we do, there’s a good chance it is obviously right…
Putin = Obama = Saddam = ??? I mean everyone is all the same, right? Again, if so, why do you bother to post?
85% of Crimea voted to join Russia in a referendum? and you who doubts everything as “controlled,” just accept this as honest, verifiable fact? double standard? or no standards whatsoever?
And, again, if Crimea can vote to exit then why doesn’t Russia allow Chechnya? Dagestan? Ingushetia? Kazan? Siberia? Karelia? to vote in the same way? We all know the answer to that but … you accept this because your biggest fear is not a dictator oligarch fascist like Putin but the paranoid fears you have of the US Government and its “control?” Do you often have panic attacks? trouble focusing? sudden fear of being surrounded by lemmings? urges to raise sheep in bucolic bliss?
‘Do as we say, not as we do.’ was never going to be more than a stopgap measure. Now that Western democracies have spent the last decade making mincemeat of the principle of national sovereignty it was only a matter of time before countries like China and Russia which are ideologically disposed to being bullies were going to get in on the action and start asserting their “rights” to “ancestral homelands” and playing God.
I think the problem in the world today is that all the easy questions have been answered. Gaza, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Mali, Ukraine (include Crimea and Georgia in that battle), they are all areas where the questions are obtuse. And regardless of the answer given, it will polarize the parties involved and leads us to a fork in the road. I like to think that Obama has learned the history of US military interventions. Sending in the US military has been sold as “unavoidable” in every conflict; and the results have been costly in money and lives. Sans WWII, nearly every US conflict, regardless of the outcome has had negative political repercussions (even WWII if you include the atomic bomb debate). The US has thrown GIs and/or bombs in order to protect “vital interests” so often that the US military is thought of as the world policeman…and consequently, most allies have allowed their own militaries to atrophy. The air war over Libya showed that not the Brits, the French, the Canadians, nor the UN, had the Command and Control or the air-to-air refueling capability to execute that pipsqueak conflict. So the current US President looks at the Ukraine (and polls show the American citizenry agree) and says “we’ll help from behind on this one”. The EU and NATO needs to step up. Unfortunately the Germans need fuel; the French do not want to give up their multi-billion euro Russian aircraft carrier deal; all the post USSR satellite countries are scared; and the EU will surely fall into recession as ramped up Russian sanctions will impact Europe. Sorry Sec. John Kerry, the low-hanging fruit in international relations have all been picked. Putin knows he will win if he is not too greedy. If Poroshenko wants to retain his position, he should start thinking along the lines of Korea. Maybe the nations of West Ukraine and East Ukraine, divided at the Dnieper.
Cardinal: That is precisely why I have such CONTEMPT for our idealist left-wing European friends. NOT ONE marcher in all of Europe regarding this flagrant, brazen attack on international law and the international system? Part of me would actually like to see the Russians roll into Berlin and Paris and London. Pity the Eastern Europeans are between them and the Russian menace… A true pity…
They probably figured why bother?. If they can’t even get their own governments to stop doing it how are they going to keep Russia from starting to do it?
Cardinal: That is precisely why I have such CONTEMPT for our idealist left-wing European friends. NOT ONE marcher in all of Europe regarding this flagrant, brazen attack on international law and the international system? Part of me would actually like to see the Russians roll into Berlin and Paris and London. Pity the Eastern Europeans are between them and the Russian menace… A true pity…[/quote]
That’s a gas. I mean it’s a gas. It’s gas. What do you expect when the former German PM moonlights as a shill for Russian energy interests?
Yes, it is a gas. I recall with great fondness being lectured repeatedly about international law and about how the unilateralist, gun-slinging cowboys in the White House were destroying international law despite Saddam’s flagrant violations of a ceasefire treaty. And, these haughty and stern lectures came from none other than a German, himself. AND there was never any willingness to discuss Schroeder and his after-office work… and now? Really? Not one marcher in Berlin? Frankfurt? Cologne? They marched in the hundreds of thousands perhaps millions to “save Saddam” and now? Nada! Bah!
Yes, it is a gas. I recall with great fondness being lectured repeatedly about international law and about how the unilateralist, gun-slinging cowboys in the White House were destroying international law despite Saddam’s flagrant violations of a ceasefire treaty. And, these haughty and stern lectures came from none other than a German, himself. AND there was never any willingness to discuss Schroeder and his after-office work… and now? Really? Not one marcher in Berlin? Frankfurt? Cologne? They marched in the hundreds of thousands perhaps millions to “save Saddam” and now? Nada! Bah![/quote]
I don’t get it. What’s to march for? The German government is on the right side of history this time rather than actively participating on the wrong side by feeding key “bad intelligence” (see “Curveball”) to Pox Americana as part of its Operation Fool Me Once sales package.
How cute… Curveball… The Congressional Act of War had 23 provisions… Would you like to remind us what those were?
So, let me understand this. The US was wrong to invade Iraq because invading countries is bad but the US is wrong to counter the Russian invasion of Ukraine because that would be an invasion? Do I have this right? Honestly, one wonders… one really does at the ability of any school to educate someone this badly… I do, really really, hope that you are Canadian… Then, it would all make sense…
